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DAREDEVIL: NEW AVENGER!
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DesignDevil
Playing to the Camera


Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Posts: 157
Location: Tennessee

PostPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2011 12:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If repetitive gunfire would weaken DD that much he would have been taken out or had to retire long ago. How many times have we seen him surrounded by gunfire at relatively close range? A minigun sounds like a loud air compressor when fired, the shock of that helicopter exploding right in front of him in "Born Again" would've caused him more damage.

No instance where using a gun makes sense?
It looks to me as if its a direct parallel to what was going on in "Born Again". People are being gunned down all around him by a large machine that he can't take out hand to hand. Every second he waits people are dying, so he picks up a weapon thats handy and opens fire. The robot is right in front of him. He's not sharp shooting from 2000 yards away.

Again, I'm not really digging the idea of him being in the Avengers, but I'm willing to wait and see what Bendis does. The complaints and hyperbole being leveled against these two teaser pages is the only thing thats ridiculous.
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AP
Flying Blind


Joined: 08 Jul 2010
Posts: 55

PostPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2011 1:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I didn't say Daredevil firing a gun never makes sense. In fact, that scene in Born Again highlights one of the reasons I like DD. What I'm saying is it doesn't sense that firing a high caliber automatic gun like that would not affect him in a negative way. If they don't show that it took a lot out of him to fire such a large gun, they're choosing to ignore something fundamental to the character.

He doesn't just avoid guns because he prefers not to kill. They also negatively affect him. DD firing a gun won't just mess with his hearing. It would also mess with his sense of smell and touch and it would greatly confuse his radar. Having a sense of touch so sensitive that one can read raised ink on paper would make firing an automatic weapon a pretty painful experience. Being the one firing the gun is way more intense to his senses than being shot at.

Honestly, all this does is highlight what a poor fit he is for this story and for The Avengers. They fight enemies like this frequently. The fact that he would have to use a weapon that he tries to avoid because it hurts him just to hold his own in this fight says a lot. It's a poor fit that requires one to ignore character traits to make it work and that's a problem.

If you're ok with it, fine. But I think it's an indicator of what a poor fit this is. And I want this to work! I'd like to see DD be an Avenger for a bit! But if this is how they're going to do it, I'd prefer he stay solo.
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Darkdevil
Humanity's Fathom


Joined: 04 Apr 2009
Posts: 331
Location: The Bright, Sunny South

PostPosted: Sat Aug 20, 2011 12:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My god, they turned him into Rambo. Shocked

Is this the best Bendis can do?? This from the same guy who some would rank alongside Miller in terms of writing DD? Don't see it here. I'd love to see the reasoning for why Matt would even consider this action (mecha robots running rampant notwithstanding)

DD is a major Marvel hero, but his focus is more on the street, real life crime and sin, not cosmic villains intent on conquering/destroying the world. He's participated in major Marvel events before but in his own unique solo way. (My favorite, Inferno, where he deals with that demon-possessed lunatic dentist from hell. Creepy yet funny at the same time.)

That's part of the charm for him and Spidey, the loners who patrol the side alleys overlooked by those flying overhead in their Fantasticar and Quinjets. I don't see the creative sense in having him join up.
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obiwan570
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Joined: 27 Aug 2004
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 02, 2011 2:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DD can be an avenger but not in the traditional sense. He has to be used as a freelance or/and a scout. Someone who goes in solo or with just a partner either before the offensive or after, not smack in the middle of a big fiGht .
This way he can work. He can't seat around the mansion having tea.
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Gee
Playing to the Camera


Joined: 09 Feb 2005
Posts: 119
Location: Scotland

PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2011 10:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So we are saying the look on his face while firing does not show pain? I think he is struggling with firing this weapon but think he would see it as worth the pain, he is doing what needs done.

Also DD not making sense as an Avenger? As I have said he makes as much if not more sense than Black Widow or Mockingbird. Come on, every team needs a superpowered ninja! So long as he is used correctly then he will make sense, this all out war is bad timing for him to be used correctly but hey bad timing is almost a superpower for DD! Lets wait to see what happens when things calm down.
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Francesco
Underboss


Joined: 08 Jun 2006
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 14, 2011 4:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm against the concept according to which any loud noise can disable DD. He would be a pretty useless superhero, if it was like that. The freakin' leapfrog could defeat him by carrying a boombox around.
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Gee
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Joined: 09 Feb 2005
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 14, 2011 1:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just finished reading this issue, its awesome. Puts the SUPER back into dds title of superhero.
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DredJAw
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Joined: 19 Jul 2011
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 14, 2011 1:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gee wrote:
Just finished reading this issue, its awesome. Puts the SUPER back into dds title of superhero.


Is DD featured in it a lot?
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Gee
Playing to the Camera


Joined: 09 Feb 2005
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Location: Scotland

PostPosted: Thu Sep 15, 2011 1:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Its pretty much a DD book. If you like dd as a superhero then its a must have, if you like him as a real world detective then maybe give it a miss.
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Ryu Murdock
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Joined: 05 Jan 2005
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Location: Cainta Rizal, Philippines

PostPosted: Sat Sep 17, 2011 2:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

New Avengers #16 is an awesome read. It was Daredevil-centric, and I think Bendis might have checked out this thread and did some re-writes. LOL The book almost spoon-fed the reason why DD should be an Avenger.

It's indeed the SUPERhero Daredevil. All the more shows why I think he is Marvel's answer to Batman.

And lastly, facing a horde of Nazi Mech soldiers alone either means your crazy...or your The Man Without Fear. And we all know what DD rightfully is!
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Francesco
Underboss


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 17, 2011 4:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

About time Bendis showed them how to write a Daredevil story.
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Darkdevil
Humanity's Fathom


Joined: 04 Apr 2009
Posts: 331
Location: The Bright, Sunny South

PostPosted: Mon Sep 19, 2011 11:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Francesco wrote:
About time Bendis showed them how to write a Daredevil story.


Really? And how exactly is that? Enlighten me as to why Bendis is one of the greatest DD writers ever, even considering this mess.

For I don't get it, nor will I ever probably. I've tried reading some of Bendis' DD work and I just can't. He takes pages and pages to do something that Lee, Thomas, Conway, could do in three panels. Sometimes his dialogue is okay, other times it sounds contrived, forced, too many 'wink-wink, nod-nod' moments.

Like the framing conversation in this Avengers issue. The sly, coy remarks. This is a team? No wonder I don't read Avengers anymore.

DD being an Avenger is right up there with wanting Spidey to be an Avenger, but not under these conditions. Taking down Nazi robots with ease? Who needs a demon to possess him then? Rolling Eyes

No thanks, I'll stick with Waid in the main title.
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AP
Flying Blind


Joined: 08 Jul 2010
Posts: 55

PostPosted: Mon Sep 19, 2011 11:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Darkdevil wrote:
Francesco wrote:
About time Bendis showed them how to write a Daredevil story.


Really? And how exactly is that? Enlighten me as to why Bendis is one of the greatest DD writers ever, even considering this mess.

For I don't get it, nor will I ever probably. I've tried reading some of Bendis' DD work and I just can't. He takes pages and pages to do something that Lee, Thomas, Conway, could do in three panels. Sometimes his dialogue is okay, other times it sounds contrived, forced, too many 'wink-wink, nod-nod' moments.

Like the framing conversation in this Avengers issue. The sly, coy remarks. This is a team? No wonder I don't read Avengers anymore.

DD being an Avenger is right up there with wanting Spidey to be an Avenger, but not under these conditions. Taking down Nazi robots with ease? Who needs a demon to possess him then? Rolling Eyes

No thanks, I'll stick with Waid in the main title.


I couldn't agree more Darkdevil.
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DesignDevil
Playing to the Camera


Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Posts: 157
Location: Tennessee

PostPosted: Mon Sep 19, 2011 5:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is a way I believe to make Daredevil an Avenger and make it work and work well. This issue was not it and only validated the views of everyone who thinks Daredevil shouldn't be an Avenger.

I love Bendis' Daredevil run, which is the only reason I gave this a shot. I'll be the first to admit his run on DD is full of inconsistencies, absurdly slow issues, and bad continuity with past stories, but his work on the character was second only to Frank Miller (who had a few wtf moments himself). I honestly can't believe this is the same guy who wrote "Underboss", "Out", "King of Hells Kitchen", and "Decalogue".

New Avengers 16 was ridiculous. I was giving Bendis the benefit of the doubt. I was thinking the whole gunning down a robot or two was all it would be in a mediocre homage to "Born Again". Nope, Matt Murdock took on an army of giant, heavily armed, Nazi robots like it was nothing and walked away without a scratch. Maybe in the next issue he can overpower Hulk in a hand-to-hand fight and then fly to the moon. And the practically fourth-wall breaking dialogue about "who is worthy to be an Avenger?" was borderline juvenile.
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Francesco
Underboss


Joined: 08 Jun 2006
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2011 10:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Darkdevil wrote:
Francesco wrote:
About time Bendis showed them how to write a Daredevil story.


Really? And how exactly is that? Enlighten me as to why Bendis is one of the greatest DD writers ever, even considering this mess.


Because he writes DD as a competent hero, gives him is due instead of having him whine continuously on how miserable he is and has him fight real fights instead of continuously throwing him at bunches of thugs to gather info.
If you prefer have the DD book spotlight how cool Dakota North is or Daredevil getting headaches because the smell of dog poop on the curb overloads his senses, then Bendis' DD is just not for you.
Plus, don't forget that Bendis was writing a New Avengers book, fisrt and foremost. In it we see low powered heroes such as Cap or Hawkeye do amazing feats, I don't see why in a similar context Daredevil could not do the same.

Do I also need to point out that Bendis didn't have him punch down the Nazimechs as if he was Hulk, but rather: hitting them in the weakspots (the cockpit), take advantage of his greater mobility, trick them into hitting each other and use a large gatling gun.
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