Daredevil Message Board
The Board Without Fear!
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

The Message Board is currently in read-only mode, as the software is now out of date. Several features and pages have been removed. If/When I get time I intend to re-launch the board with updated software.


DD Book Club - The King of Hell's Kitchen
Goto page Previous  1, 2
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Daredevil Message Board Forum Index -> The comics
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
macjr33
Flying Blind


Joined: 22 Nov 2017
Posts: 97
Location: Pittsburgh, PA

PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 1:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So before I get to my actual thoughts on the issue, I have more of a general question. Given that I only got back in comic books about 3 years ago and in doing so was new to Daredevil everything I read outside of Soule's current run was in trades. My question is for those that read Bendis real time did they feel different about it because you had to wait a month for the next issue. I ask because if my liking of Bendis' run is skewed by the fact that I was able to read it all at once.

With that said, on to the issue at hand. As others have noted, this isn't an action heavy issue and I'm cool with that as I like the narrative that is being built.

I really like the flashback about Jack's murder and I like the idea of Matt touching his face, whether or not that is actually something that those who are blind actually do. This was clearly an inspiration for the Netflix series and I like how it portrayed as something Jack did to try and calm Matt. And frankly, I love the dynamic between Matt and Jack so I always happy to see that show up.

As I said before I like Ben and his interactions with Foggy and the Night Nurse are great. I think the Night Nurse is an awesome addition and continues to further flesh out the "underworld" of the Marvel Universe.

I like that the idea is that Matt is having a nervous breakdown over the death of Karen and that is what is contributing to his odd decision making.

I continue to enjoy Maleev's art because even though he may copy and paste at times how he draws characters like the Night Nurse is just awesome.

Overall, I would give this a solid 4 stars.

Mike Murdock wrote:

I've said before that I don't like the way Bendis writes how Matt acts, but it's far more understandable if you realize that he's having a breadown in the story.


I think part of it is that we are not supposed to like the way Matt is acting, I think Brubaker continued that as well.

Dimetre wrote:
There are certain things that bother me. Milla always seemed like a highly-intelligent woman, so you would have thought she would have taken Matt's violent life into account before marrying him, especially after almost being killed by Typhoid. Perhaps I'm prejudiced -- people who get married too quickly are a pet peeve of mine. The sympathy I hold towards Milla for her husband's disappearance is limited, partly because she knew about his dangerous life and partly because she chose to marry him anyway. That's what I think. Still, it's not a bad scene.


Just because someone is intelligent does not mean that they necessarily make good decisions when it comes to relationships. Love makes people do strange things which to the outside observer would seem completely irrational. Sometimes the relationship works, sometimes it doesn't.

Dimetre wrote:
The scene at Nelson and Murdock is pretty good. I continued to enjoy the banter between Ben and Foggy, but I don't understand why the mention of Karen's death caused Ben to be taken aback. Did Bendis think the idea of Matt suffering a nervous breakdown was such a revelation? Those of us who read "Guardian Devil" and onward are aware of how shaken Matt was by Karen's death. David Mack showed Matt grieving over Karen in "Parts of a Hole," even if he had Matt enter into a romance with Maya Lopez shortly afterward. I don't remember Bendis or Bob Gale mentioning Karen at all in "Wake Up" or "Playing to the Camera" respectively. But, I do think that Kevin Smith and Mack displayed Matt's grief over Karen effectively.

Grief is a funny thing though. Some people work through their grief over a loved one quickly. Some take years. Some never work through it. I think of working through grief as learning to carry on with your life while living with the loss of your loved one. As a long-time Daredevil fan, I don't think Matt has ever properly worked through his grief over Karen. He had a lot of unsettled trust issues with her, and I don't think they were ever truly settled. I have long stated that I would greatly enjoy an arc where Matt deals with his grief over Karen once and for all. In my opinion Daredevil: Yellow did an unsatisfactory job of that, since it dwelt on only the positive aspects of the Matt/Karen relationship.


Interesting take for sure, and I certainly agree that Matt has never truly worked through Karen's grief and, frankly, I am not sure he ever should. To your point grief is a funny thing and sometimes you feel like you've moved past it and then there is something that reminds of that person and the emotions come rushing back even years later. Matt has always struck me as a very emotional person in that regard.

Where I have a different interpretation is that Matt had unsettled trust issues with Karen. My perspective was that during Born Again when Karen revealed to Matt what she had done that Matt forgave her instantly and it was almost Christ-like (which would certainly fit with the Catholic themes of that story). Now I have not read everything that came between Born Again and Guardian Devil; however, I don't recall Karen ever doing anything that would have gave Matt new reasons to not trust her. If anything, it would be argued that Karen should have trust issues with Matt given that he cheated on her with Typhoid Mary and came close to getting back together with Elektra. Again there may be something I missed as I have not read anything.

Also, I see your point with DD: Yellow; however, I thought it was amazing and a good way for Matt to work through his grief, if only briefly. People have the natural tendency to romanticize the past and forgot all the dark parts and this certainly fit that.

Dimetre wrote:
So, while I feel Matt never properly worked through his grief over Karen, is it possible he had a "nervous breakdown"? Well, I looked up the term on Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mental_breakdown) and it's not recognized as an official clinical term. A survey of laypersons suggests that it is "a specific acute time-limited reactive disorder, involving symptoms such as anxiety or depression, usually precipitated by external stressors." Wikipedia goes on to say that the "breakdown" terminology comes into play when the effects of the inciting event become so acute as to "prevent them from performing activities of daily living or, less strictly, only when those demands prevent them from performing their familial or occupational duties." Does this apply to Matt following Karen's death? I think his depression following her death was understandable, but did it hinder is ability to practise law or be Daredevil? I don't recall anything like that. He made some questionable decisions in my opinion, like unmasking in front of a bunch of criminals and declaring himself the new Kingpin, but I'm not sure whether to attribute that to a "nervous breakdown" or questionable writing by Brian Michael Bendis.


I think we could argue the semantics; however, I feel that Bendis effectively conveyed traits in Matt that have been displayed before i.e. him being depressed, self-destructive, guilt ridden and paranoid, which has now contributed to where he is currently.

Dimetre wrote:
Anyway, even though Ben Urich found the Night Nurse's clinic ridiculously easily, I loved the scene. Whoever the model Maleev used to play the Night Nurse gave him great expressions with which to work. She's awesome. She is a wonderful femme fatale, and it really felt like Urich was venturing into a rabbit hole taking him to places unknown.


Agreed Night Nurse is awesome.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Mike Murdock
Golden Age


Joined: 08 Sep 2014
Posts: 1750

PostPosted: Sat Jul 14, 2018 8:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wasn't reading the story when it came out either, but I read it in trade originally where I could binge it all. Reading it with a week gap between issues makes things a bit slower and it kind of makes me wonder how it would have felt if there was a month gap. That being said, it was sometimes double shipped, so I would have to see how frequently it was coming out at this point.
_________________
Matt Murdock's cooler twin brother

Not sure what to read next? Check out the Book Club for some ideas!

I'd give the Devil benefit of law, for my own safety's sake!
Thomas More - A Man for All Seasons
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Mike Murdock
Golden Age


Joined: 08 Sep 2014
Posts: 1750

PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2018 8:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Daredevil Vol. 2 #59 - The King of Hell's Kitchen Part 4



Quote:
"THE KING OF HELL's KITCHEN" pt. 4 of 5? Faced with the growing threat of the Yakuza, Matt Murdock is on the comeback trail as he teams up with some of NYC's toughest heroes to take the fight back!


Due 7/22
_________________
Matt Murdock's cooler twin brother

Not sure what to read next? Check out the Book Club for some ideas!

I'd give the Devil benefit of law, for my own safety's sake!
Thomas More - A Man for All Seasons
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Dimetre
Underboss


Joined: 16 Feb 2006
Posts: 1366
Location: Toronto

PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2018 3:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Let me begin by taking issue with some things on the recap page. First of all, Karen Page shouldn't be referred to as Matt's "one true great love." That is easily debatable. There are those on this site who think his greatest love is Karen, just as there are those who think his greatest love is Elektra (like I do), as there are those who think his greatest love is the Black Widow. There was no reason to put such a declarative statement out there.

Secondly, he bottom of the recap page labels this issue as Part 3. Isn't this Part 4 of "The King of Hell's Kitchen"? Couldn't Quesada or Lamy at least use the fingers on one of their hands to keep proper count of the issues used in this arc by this point?

The cover is, again, a generic image of Daredevil that I suspect Maleev had lying around.

This issue, on the whole, suffers from tremendous Bendis decompression syndrome. The first scene with Driver and Del Toro is a prime example. Nothing happens in the scene until the scene's third page. Until that point, it's just the two of them arguing about whether Matt Murdock is good or bad. Driver, who has always annoyed me, keeps repeating the phrase, "Let me tell you something..." like a jerk. Nothing happens until they're ambushed by a jeep. At least I don't have to put up with Driver anymore.

But the confusing thing about that scene for me is that Del Toro was firing on the jeep, but it was Driver's car that exploded to the point that it flew up in the sky. It even looked like Del Toro was aiming at the jeep's gas tank. But the car explodes. Not the jeep. Also, even though Del Toro was right next to the car when it exploded, she doesn't appear to be hurt. Then we cut away from the scene, even though it seems like the shooters in the jeep are still a threat, and could easily still kill her.

I thought the scene where Urich confronts Matt with the notion that he's having a nervous breakdown over Karen was fine. I can get behind everything Ben is saying, even if I'd rather he not use the terminology "nervous breakdown." I'd also prefer if Maleev not copy and paste panels as often as he does. What took me out of the scene was Foggy. He's not a dumb guy, but it never occurred to him that Matt may have some unresolved issues from Karen's murder?

This is something that kind of drives me crazy about Bendis' Daredevil run. He presents these supposedly revolutionary concepts like "a cycle of violence," and now "a nervous breakdown," as if they're these incredibly deep insights, when they're perfectly logical things that you'd think would occur to anyone reading the story. And Bendis spills so much ink delving into them, to the point where we the readers are being told about it rather than shown it. Brian, your insights aren't as deep as you think they are.

We get a loving scene between Matt and Milla. They seem like a nice couple. I find it weird that Milla calls Foggy, instead of just enjoying her husband being awake. Perhaps Foggy asked to speak to Matt as soon as he woke up, but whatever. I thought the joke about red and yellow was spaced out to much, but I appreciated the easy banter between Matt and Foggy, as well as the tenderness between Matt and Milla.

The weakest scene of the issue to me was the one at Luke and Jessica's. First off, both of these people should be familiar enough with the sight of Daredevil that they shouldn't freak out. I didn't buy it for one second. It's only made worse by Bendis' decompression, because instead of one panel being devoted to Jessica and Luke's freak out, we get a page and a half.

Secondly, I've already typed about my problems with the scene three issues ago with Luke/Peter/Reed/Stephen. I'm still unclear about what Luke's problem was. Matt crossed a line? Matt was stopping crime in Hell's Kitchen too well? Matt was getting too scary? If Matt wasn't killing people, what was Luke objecting too? Nevertheless, Matt apologizes to Luke, who tells him that everyone goes through crap, but it just looked like Matt wasn't coming out the other side of it. This is so unclear to me. If Matt was being overly brutal with criminals, couldn't we have been shown an example? Or was it just that Matt had become too moody? This whole conflict with Luke needed to be explained more clearly by Bendis, because it seemed like Matt was doing a good enough job stopping crime, and he wasn't in danger of becoming a criminal himself, so I don't know what this Luke and Matt scene changed.

Then we get a long spiel from Sano, where he's spouting off on how his underlings should be able to kill a guy like Daredevil. I could have sworn that Sano himself is one of the guys who failed to kill Daredevil. By this point, Sano just seems to be Sammy Silke rewritten to be Asian. He is the exact same character, and he does not justify the long strings of dialogue he gets.

The splash page with Daredevil, Spidey, Power Man and Iron Fist is spectacular. I'm surprised I haven't seen a poster of this.

As for the ending, while I was puzzled that Milla hadn't put on some clothes, I think Foggy would have attempted to talk to Matt first about Karen, since the "nervous breakdown" thing is such an earth-shattering notion, before bringing it up to Milla. Maybe it would have been a better idea if Bendis had Foggy lecturing him about Karen in Night Nurse's clining instead of Ben Urich. That way, we would have at least seen Foggy fail to get Matt to listen to him. What we have now is Foggy completely overstepping the boundaries of friendship without going to Matt first.

While I'm happy to see Agent Driver meet his demise, this issue suffers from a lot of Bendis and Maleev's worst habits. There is a lot of chatter, and a lot of it is not as insightful as Bendis thinks it is. Scenes go one way longer than they should, and we seem to be repeating stories and patterns from twenty issues previous. This was weak. I give it a 2.5 out of 5.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Dimetre
Underboss


Joined: 16 Feb 2006
Posts: 1366
Location: Toronto

PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2018 3:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

macjr33 wrote:
So before I get to my actual thoughts on the issue, I have more of a general question. Given that I only got back in comic books about 3 years ago and in doing so was new to Daredevil everything I read outside of Soule's current run was in trades. My question is for those that read Bendis real time did they feel different about it because you had to wait a month for the next issue. I ask because if my liking of Bendis' run is skewed by the fact that I was able to read it all at once.

I can't say that reading issue by issue made me feel different. I was on this message board giving my thoughts about every Bendis issue as they came out, and I was one of the few people giving negative reviews. Most people at the time seemed to be huge fans of each issue, and most professional review sites seemed to treat each new issue like the Second Coming. I really don't understand it.
macjr33 wrote:
Where I have a different interpretation is that Matt had unsettled trust issues with Karen. My perspective was that during Born Again when Karen revealed to Matt what she had done that Matt forgave her instantly and it was almost Christ-like (which would certainly fit with the Catholic themes of that story). Now I have not read everything that came between Born Again and Guardian Devil; however, I don't recall Karen ever doing anything that would have gave Matt new reasons to not trust her. If anything, it would be argued that Karen should have trust issues with Matt given that he cheated on her with Typhoid Mary and came close to getting back together with Elektra. Again there may be something I missed as I have not read anything.

As tacky as it may now be, I'm thinking mostly of Matt's outburst to Karen about her past lifestyle in "Guardian Devil." The fact that he said it, and suggested it as a possible reason for her AIDS diagnosis indicates a level of distrust. You can dismiss it as has hacky writing from Kevin Smith, and Karen didn't have much longer to live, but it at the very least suggested there was some dark corner in Matt's psyche where Karen still had a few things for which Matt needed to forgive her.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Mike Murdock
Golden Age


Joined: 08 Sep 2014
Posts: 1750

PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2018 7:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bendis's dialogue pacing was very useful in the start. It's a fairly benign FBI conversation that goes on too long, but we get to see a few different moments that are important. One, we see Agent Driver and Del Toro together and their different perspectives. We get a debate about whether vigilantism is good as the Yakuza are freed from jail. Driver seems to be leaning towards using vigilantes, Del Toro is taking a much more sensible middle ground. Their argument, which starts to be about whether the Yakuza would leave or not, takes a sudden, dramatic turn that adds something quite interesting to the story.

I do like the Foggy/Matt relationship in this issue. In the past, it's been nagging and whining, and bickering. Here, Foggy is supportive. He's acting intelligently. And they have genuine friendship and even humor (I like the "yellow" joke). I also loved the exchange between Daredevil and Jessica. This issue has had humor that's been missing for a while.

That being said, while I'm praising Foggy and Matt, I'm not a fan of what Foggy did at the end. Definitely feels like he's making things worse.

Four Stars. It's good to see things having some momentum again and some signs that things might get better for Matt.
_________________
Matt Murdock's cooler twin brother

Not sure what to read next? Check out the Book Club for some ideas!

I'd give the Devil benefit of law, for my own safety's sake!
Thomas More - A Man for All Seasons
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
macjr33
Flying Blind


Joined: 22 Nov 2017
Posts: 97
Location: Pittsburgh, PA

PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2018 11:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I find this to be another solid issue where its strength is in the interactions we get between several of the characters.

First, I really like Matt and Foggy's dynamic in this issue. I too like the joking and that he is generally supportive of Matt. Loved the reference to the yellow costume as well and the humor in general. Overall the conversation showed how there was a deep understanding between them and that their relationship had a lot of depth.

I know some of you have brought up him talking to Milla and honestly I don't see too much of an issue with it. In my mind he is just trying to help and is concerned for Milla. Certainly no where near as bad as when he and Natasha decided to forge messages between Matt and Heather to break them up. Though I definitely thought it was weird that Milla was in her underwear during the conversation.

Also enjoyed Matt's interactions with Luke and Jessica. The humor was needed and adds to the relationship between the characters.

I also enjoyed Matt's interaction with Milla as it showed how loving and kind Matt can be when he is not breaking bones.

I even found the conversation between Foggy and Ben to be quite good as well.

The page with Matt, Luke, Danny and Peter is epic and one of my favorite Maleev panels. As I am a Maleev fan in general enjoyed the art throughout.

4 stars for me!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Mike Murdock
Golden Age


Joined: 08 Sep 2014
Posts: 1750

PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2018 8:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Daredevil Vol. 2 #60 - The King of Hell's Kitchen Part 6



Quote:
Daredevil returns, ready to rid the city of Yakuza crime lords once and for all. And this time, he’s brought some backup.


Due 7/29
_________________
Matt Murdock's cooler twin brother

Not sure what to read next? Check out the Book Club for some ideas!

I'd give the Devil benefit of law, for my own safety's sake!
Thomas More - A Man for All Seasons
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Dimetre
Underboss


Joined: 16 Feb 2006
Posts: 1366
Location: Toronto

PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2018 1:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just want to emphasize that I have never read "Kingpin of Hell's Kitchen" before. I'll admit to being predisposed to disliking Bendis' work before I read it, but that's only because I've disliked so much of his work before. I purchased every issue of "Wake Up" and all of #26-50. I think I gave him a fair shake, and I grew sick of him. I also gave glowing reviews to the second part of "Trial of the Century" and the issue in this arc which had the Night Nurse, so that proves that I can be objective.

I found this issue underwhelming for a few reasons.

First: Is there anybody out there who thinks a bunch of Yakuza -- no matter how numerous -- are a match for not only Daredevil, but also Spider-Man, Luke Cage and Iron Fist? Were you worried for any of them? I certainly wasn't. The fact that we saw Matt take on a bunch of them alone and out of costume already certainly robbed this battle of most of its impact. I just couldn't get worked up reading this.

Second: Daredevil's taunting of Sano. I'm on record for hating the way Alex Maleev draws Matt with his gritted teeth. It always looks like he's getting ready to spit out a loogy. But there is also this pattern in Bendis' stories where, in the climactic battle against the antagonist, the hero always belittles the villain, saying he never had a chance of winning. Daredevil does that, yet again, here. He did it against the Owl in "Lowlife" and he did it against Bullseye in "Hardcore." He may have even done that against Fisk too. Now he does it against Sano. Now I never thought Sano had a chance against Daredevil -- that's one of the reasons I had a hard time caring about this story. But when you have our hero talking like that while beating down the villain, you have Matt starting to look conceited and resorting to puffery. He's acting like a dog displaying dominant behaviour to get to the top of the pack, and I always thought that Matt was better than that.

I always thought that Matt, even at his lowest, had a measure of self-awareness, control and humility. The Bendis version of the character doesn't. I have never seen Daredevil bark at a villain to tell the police what they need to hear. My favourite version of Daredevil, as written by either Miller or O'Neil, never would have had to do that. He could just get the villains to do what he wants with a look. My classic version of the character is a man of few words. He speaks through actions. That's why I'll always be of the view that Bendis just doesn't understand how Daredevil works best as a character.

Third: Milla running out. We've never actually been told whether Matt ever told Milla about past girlfriends before marrying her. Now, I think Milla is a very well-written character. One of the things I like about her is how independent and smart she is. If she has fallen in love with Daredevil, then she ought to know a lot of Matt's previous relationships are a matter of public record. At the very least, she ought to know that he was involved with Black Widow, whose allegiance has often been called into question. I would think a smart lady like Milla would have had the wherewithal to ask Matt about that before accepting his proposal. I don't know whether she'd have found out about Elektra, but I think she'd have heard Karen's name in passing, simply from hanging around the office, and wouldn't have been scared to approach Matt about that too. I don't think there would have been anything wrong with her doing that either, since she has every right to protect herself. It's in both her and Matt's best interest to go into a marriage with complete awareness of themselves and each other.

Now, I've typed at length about how ridiculous it is that Bendis is treating this notion of the "nervous breakdown" as being so revolutionary. I would have expected anyone hanging around Matt to appreciate that he has unresolved issues surrounding Karen's death, and perhaps he should seek the help of a therapist. I find it laughable that never occurred to Foggy until 54 issues after Karen's death. I find it similarly laughable it never occurred to Ben Urich, a journalist who's seen it all. I know that Milla is a comparatively new addition to the cast, but, since I believe she should have at least been aware of Karen's existence, it shouldn't be surprising that a man who was involved with Karen at the time of her death may need help working through it.

So, while I agree with the idea that Matt wouldn't have married Milla so quickly were he of sound mind, I also don't see this revelation that he is troubled about Karen's death to be grounds for running out on him. What promise did he break? I completely believe that Matt and Milla are in love with each other. Why wouldn't she help him work through this? I just don't get it. Why is this "nervous breakdown" being treated like Matt's cardinal sin? Ben, Foggy and Milla are treating Matt like he has some gross infection, when the truth is that he simply has issues he needs help working through.

I think good writers display their characters working at the peak of their intelligence, and I don't think Bendis has done that at all in his Daredevil run. Characters realize things too late. Underlings take advantage of their superior's weaknesses, but they do so sloppily. Everybody gets called crazy or a loser. People make rash decisions with catastrophic outcomes, instead of taking a breath and behaving like adults. In Bendis comics, everyone is Star Lord.

Finally, Ben Urich needs an entire page to look at a newspaper-- a newspaper telling us what we already know. I think this issue came in one page short, and Bendis, seeing that, said to himself, "Heck, I'm one page short. Well, maybe Ben looks at a newspaper. I don't care." Really, what are we supposed to take away from this page? Does Ben think Daredevil shouldn't have stopped the Yakuza?

Previous issues in this arc were lifted up by Ben Urich's Dashiell Hammet-esque narration. This issue suffered from its absence. Yes, there were some neat kicks, but there were also some action beats I felt Maleev could have done better, like showing how Matt can sense what's going on behind him. But the bottom line is that I think Daredevil has to be done better than this. This Daredevil, as written by Bendis, is not my Daredevil. I realize that is completely subjective, so I'm not going to give it an insulting mark, but I'm going to give this issue a low grade. 2.5 out of 5.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Mike Murdock
Golden Age


Joined: 08 Sep 2014
Posts: 1750

PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2018 7:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maleev has strengths and weaknesses. I don't think the splash page with Daredevil, Spider-Man, Luke Cage, and Iron Fist was his strongest. The muted colors and indistinct background makes it look overall underwhelming. There are some cool moments in the fight scene, but underwhelming is the word I'd use overall. I liked Daredevil's lines scaring the criminals. I like the idea that, in this dark world, he can hold his own in intimidation. That being said, I prefer the way Frank Miller does it where he can do it without speaking or lifting a finger.

After that, it feels like the story ends quite abruptly. There's a conversation with Milla that's continuing the situation. I like their relationship, so it's a shame to see them having issues. On the other hand, I don't know their marriage, so it's hard to be upset if that's falling apart.

Three and a Half Stars. This felt disappointing overall, which is a shame since I thought it had much greater potential. I guess I don't have much else to say.
_________________
Matt Murdock's cooler twin brother

Not sure what to read next? Check out the Book Club for some ideas!

I'd give the Devil benefit of law, for my own safety's sake!
Thomas More - A Man for All Seasons
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
macjr33
Flying Blind


Joined: 22 Nov 2017
Posts: 97
Location: Pittsburgh, PA

PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2018 1:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Apologies for being a bit late with my thoughts on this issue.

I feel that I perhaps have the dissenting opinion when compared to Dimetre as I have shared numerous times that Bendis' run on Daredevil is my favorite so, in re-reading this arc, I was predisposed to liking it. So with that in mind, here are my thoughts:

- Maleev's art, for me, is fantastic in this issue. I know that Maleev is polarizing for people, they either love him or hate him; however, the 2 page spread with Daredevil, Luke, Spider-Man and Iron Fist is amazing. One of my favorites by Maleev, second only to 2-page spread where Matt and Natasha attach Jigsaw in the next arc. His style, for me, fits perfectly in this type of narrative.

- Liked Matt's speech to the villians, perhaps a little over the top, but fun none the less, especially with the comments from Spider-Man.

- Action was good, glad to have other heroes involved.

- It does end a bit abruptly though it was to a conclusion I think some may have seen coming. No matter what the people that get involved with Matt pay the consequences, often through no fault of their own.

4 out of 5 stars

Dimetre wrote:
First: Is there anybody out there who thinks a bunch of Yakuza -- no matter how numerous -- are a match for not only Daredevil, but also Spider-Man, Luke Cage and Iron Fist? Were you worried for any of them? I certainly wasn't. The fact that we saw Matt take on a bunch of them alone and out of costume already certainly robbed this battle of most of its impact. I just couldn't get worked up reading this.


I am not sure the intention was to be worried at all. I had quite the opposite interpretation in that Matt wanted to drop the hammer on the Yakuza to let them know to get out of dodge hence why he brought some heavy hitters with him. He didn't want to just beat them, he wanted to crush them if they wouldn't listen to him. Now perhaps the Yakuza thinking that they could beat was perhaps a bit silly, but that happens a bit in comics.

Dimetre wrote:
I always thought that Matt, even at his lowest, had a measure of self-awareness, control and humility. The Bendis version of the character doesn't. I have never seen Daredevil bark at a villain to tell the police what they need to hear. My favourite version of Daredevil, as written by either Miller or O'Neil, never would have had to do that. He could just get the villains to do what he wants with a look. My classic version of the character is a man of few words. He speaks through actions. That's why I'll always be of the view that Bendis just doesn't understand how Daredevil works best as a character.


While agree that he has been shown to be self-aware, in control and humble; conversely, he has also shown to go completely off the rails and to me that started with Miller. In Miller's original run he had Matt treat Heather terribly to the point of blackmailing her to marry him, he dug up his ex-girlfriends remains and played Russian Roulette with one of his rouges. He was shown as anything but stable. Bendis clearly borrowed from this, you could argue that Miller did it better, but the themes are similar.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Daredevil Message Board Forum Index -> The comics All times are GMT - 4 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2
Page 2 of 2

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © phpBB Group