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DAREDEVIL #612 Preview, Reviews and Discussion

 
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What did you think of DAREDEVIL #612?
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4
45%
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3
45%
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2
9%
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Total Votes : 11

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Kuljit Mithra
Hardcore


Joined: 29 Jul 2004
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Location: Canada

PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2018 4:16 pm    Post subject: DAREDEVIL #612 Preview, Reviews and Discussion Reply with quote

The final issue of this volume, DAREDEVIL #612 ships tomorrow and here's a preview! By Soule and Noto.



http://www.manwithoutfear.com/gallery/Daredevil-V5-612

Please use this thread for all discussion when the issue ships!
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Last edited by Kuljit Mithra on Wed Nov 28, 2018 4:19 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Daredevil24
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Joined: 06 Apr 2011
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2018 1:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anti climatic if you ask me. Onto the next.
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Cropsy Cryptkeeper
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Joined: 21 Nov 2018
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2018 9:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Haven't read it yet but love the covers.
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DesignDevil
Playing to the Camera


Joined: 11 Sep 2009
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Location: Tennessee

PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2018 12:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The only saving grace for these last two arcs has been Phil Noto's art. Its shame after coming off of the Mayor Murdock story which was fun and exciting, but like many of these last few stories by Soule, went nowhere.

Mike Murdock, was kinda funny as a plot device at first, but him actually running around is ridiculous. He needs to be killed off and quickly forgotten as soon as possible.

This entire Death of Daredevil felt rushed, which it was, and had all the drama and impact of a wet fart. Also, as I said before, Daredevil getting taken out by a truck was absurd based on the way it was presented in the artwork.

Hopefully Zdarsky and Checchetto can bring depth back to Matt Murdock and his supporting cast again.
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lcarr1991
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2018 1:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Didn’t hate this but if you’re going to actually kill daredevil, the story needs to b better than this. No real emotional gut punch and a little predictable. If this was just a run of the mill dd story i’d rate it pretty high but this is not just a finale to soules run but in many ways a finale to absolutely everything thats came so far. Im under no illusions here. Matt will be back. Maybe even in a couple of months time but this is still the death of daredevil and it didn’t get the weight or depth it deserved.

I think overall i really liked soules run, especially early on, but his last year or so on the book dragged his average down for me. I liked his take on the beast, i liked muse and i liked blindspot. He was no miller, bendis or brubaker but i think he sits comfortably alongside noccenti and waid in the b-tier.
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Daredevil24
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Joined: 06 Apr 2011
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2018 3:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RGdesigner wrote:
The only saving grace for these last two arcs has been Phil Noto's art. Its shame after coming off of the Mayor Murdock story which was fun and exciting, but like many of these last few stories by Soule, went nowhere.

Mike Murdock, was kinda funny as a plot device at first, but him actually running around is ridiculous. He needs to be killed off and quickly forgotten as soon as possible.

This entire Death of Daredevil felt rushed, which it was, and had all the drama and impact of a wet fart. Also, as I said before, Daredevil getting taken out by a truck was absurd based on the way it was presented in the artwork.

Hopefully Zdarsky and Checchetto can bring depth back to Matt Murdock and his supporting cast again.
Thank you so much for this. This was arc was lame.
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Mike Murdock
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Joined: 08 Sep 2014
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2018 9:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My thoughts are relatively short. I kind of predicted the ending here, so the shock of the twist is lost on me. But I still think the issue works on its own merits. The idea that Matt Murdock can achieve his goals but only is his dreams is a powerful one and the issue delivers it well. I want to give a special shout out to Phil Noto whose art is beautiful. I don't think this run was flawless but this issue sums up what was great when it worked and I think this issue worked.

Five Stars.
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Dimetre
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Joined: 16 Feb 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2018 7:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, there are certain things this issue does well. Everybody has already praised Noto's art, and it indeed praiseworthy. The four black pages lend considerable heaviness to the ending. That was a bold choice. Charles Soule deserves credit for some well-chosen words and phrases. "So I will be the light," suggests Christian scripture. I loved Matt's line of argument with the District Attorney, convincing him to fight against Fisk. Much of this is very well done.

But, here's the problem. What was this all for? What is the point of all this?

The TV show Dallas had an entire season that turned out to be a dream, and that angered and frustrated the fans who tuned in faithfully week after week for an entire year. Now, it's true, some on this board predicted correctly that this story was playing out in his mind as he fought for his life on the operating table. Those black panels with the captions like, "Clear," were indeed hints. I admit, that didn't occur to me until some of you guys brought it up here. So that's a failure to catch the hint on my part. Still, this is a story of Daredevil triumphing over evil that we so want to be true, so it can't help but feel like a cheat to give it to us and then snatch it away at the end -- especially when it feels like what everything Soule has been setting up from his first issue had been building towards this, not Matt on the operating table.

Matt getting hit by a car is such a random occurrence. It doesn't fit in with Soule's grand narrative. It doesn't feel like an organic part of his story. It's a single step removed from Snow White and the Seven Dwarves ending with an asteroid crashing into earth. Yes, it's an ending, but what does it have to do with anything? What is the point of it? What am I, the reader, supposed to take from it?

At least Matt still has a pulse, and seems determined to stick around.

So, I'm annoyed that Soule felt entitled to end his arc by leaving Matt in a compromised state, just like Bendis and Brubaker had before him. I'm annoyed that Noto drew the Vigil to be so visually arresting, but so unknowable. I guess the Vigil represented the permanent embrace of death, but he really wasn't much of a character. He just looked really cool.

To me, Soule's run will be looked back on for some really great ideas that were executed in tragically unsatisfying ways. Others will look back and remember the black costume, Wilson Fisk becoming mayor, Muse, Blindspot.... There are some good things here, but they didn't really amount to much. And this last end to the story is the final in a long string of unsatisfying endings to Soule's stories. I gave it a three, because I can't go as far as saying it's bad. It's is what I think of Soule's entire run -- it's decent.
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Cropsy Cryptkeeper
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Joined: 21 Nov 2018
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2018 9:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think if the whole arc was a stand alone issue I would rate it higher. I usually am not a fan of "it was only a dream" type twists, someone else predicted it here and I was kind of hoping for a little something more, but the end message was a powerful one. It's like Matt can't settle on a happy ending for himself, but he also is choosing to be his own light in the darkness. I really liked that. Oddly enough, after picking up this comic I was almost hit by a truck crossing the street, really made me think.
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lcarr1991
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Joined: 26 May 2018
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2018 4:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dimetre wrote:
Matt getting hit by a car is such a random occurrence. It doesn't fit in with Soule's grand narrative. It doesn't feel like an organic part of his story. It's a single step removed from Snow White and the Seven Dwarves ending with an asteroid crashing into earth. Yes, it's an ending, but what does it have to do with anything? What is the point of it? What am I, the reader, supposed to take from it?.


I sort of liked it. I completely understand why someone wouldn’t. But everyone ever killed in a car accident was half way through their own story and suddenly out of nowhere it got cut short with no rhyme or reason. Its real, it happens and i like how it happened to a fictional character right in the middle of a pivitol story. Now matt won’t take down fisk, get a happy ending or even say goodbye to foggy. Theres was so much build up to a huge conclusion that never happened. Fisk won and matt lost but not because of matt weakness or fisks genius. It just happened by chance. Real life happened and cut the story short. It might not be conventional or satisfying but for me it was powerful and pretty cool.
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Rand
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Joined: 30 Jun 2015
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2018 2:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Let's focus, for a moment, on two comments at the back of this final issue of Charles Soule's run:

1) "[Phil Noto]'s an old friend, and I think we packed in some wonderful stuff in the issues we got to do together, from bringing back Mike Murdock to killing Daredevil off... which we did, by the way. Those black pages? Yeah. Daredevil died." -- Soule

First, the good:

Phil Noto provided (inarguably?) the best art that Daredevil received during the entirety of Soule's run.

Now, the bad:

a) It wasn't a good idea -- much less a "wonderful" one -- to bring back Matt's fictional twin brother. Worse still: we're stuck with him now; the most we can hope for (I guess) is that no future writer ever mentions the fact of his existence again.

b) An unbroken series of black pages closing out an issue to signify the death of a character was used just two years ago in Saga, and to much stronger effect. It's unknown to me whether Soule was unaware of that other book's use of the same device, or else, whether he thought it would work equally well here... which it doesn't.

c) Soule himself admits (!) that his gimmick scarcely succeeds, since he (embarrassingly) feels the need to explicitly state -- at the end of an arc entitled "The Death of Daredevil" -- that what he'd (momentarily) done was kill Matt off.

2) "After five years and over 40 issues, Charles Soule's epic run on Daredevil has come to a close, and Matt Murdock will never be the same." -- Devin Lewis (editor)

a) Soule's run on Daredevil kicked off with a new #1 released on December 2, 2015; this final issue shipped on November 28, 2018. Simple arithmetic dictates that Soule's run therefore lasted exactly three years, not... five years? (What?!)

Keep in mind: this was the first sentence of Devin's page-long reflection on the book; his job was, literally, editor.

b) If anyone here believes that Matt Murdock will "never be the same", moving forward with 2019's new run -- which I can only assume (and, to some extent, hope) will be a more-or-less back-to-basics approach (compared to Soule's flights of fancy) -- I've got a suspiciously familiar truck full of radioactive waste with which to run you over... Rolling Eyes
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Daredevil24
Humanity's Fathom


Joined: 06 Apr 2011
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2018 10:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anyone know how Soule's sales stack up against Waid's?
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Rand
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Joined: 30 Jun 2015
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2018 11:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Daredevil24 wrote:
Anyone know how Soule's sales stack up against Waid's?

http://www.manwithoutfear.com/daredevil-sales-data.shtml
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Sunni
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Joined: 07 Jan 2017
Posts: 87

PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2019 6:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Loved it. Matt momentarily dying on the operating table is the only kind of death for him I can get behind (actually killing him would be so, so bad for so many reasons), and Karen saying exactly the wrong thing when she was welcoming Matt to Heaven was perfect. She might as well have thrown in a “You have nothing to feel guilty about” LOL. Of course he came back!

That said, four stars for me because four issues is a lot to spend on “it was all a dream!” except for Matt getting hit by the truck. I think this whole arc could have been reworked to be done in three or even two issues with a tighter narrative giving it much more impact. As is, it still works, but it’s not Soule’s strongest story. Then again, his opening arc wasn’t either, so I think it’s oddly fitting in a way for him to come full circle. I’ll miss him on the book, but I’m glad he mentioned on Reddit that he’s told the Daredevil stories he wanted to tell outside of one that he will be doing elsewhere.

lcarr1991 wrote:
Didn’t hate this but if you’re going to actually kill daredevil, the story needs to b better than this. No real emotional gut punch and a little predictable.

Cropsy Cryptkeeper wrote:
I think if the whole arc was a stand alone issue I would rate it higher. I usually am not a fan of "it was only a dream" type twists, someone else predicted it here and I was kind of hoping for a little something more, but the end message was a powerful one. It's like Matt can't settle on a happy ending for himself, but he also is choosing to be his own light in the darkness. I really liked that. Oddly enough, after picking up this comic I was almost hit by a truck crossing the street, really made me think.

I'm glad you're okay! And yes, I agree this needed to be shorter to have the gravitas Soule wanted to it have. It's just too drawn out to be the gut punch it's supposed to be.

Dimetre wrote:
Charles Soule deserves credit for some well-chosen words and phrases. "So I will be the light," suggests Christian scripture.

It’s also a nice callback to what Matt has thought in earlier arcs. Soule has said his run is meant to be one big novel, and it really shines through here.

Dimetre wrote:
So, I'm annoyed that Soule felt entitled to end his arc by leaving Matt in a compromised state, just like Bendis and Brubaker had before him.

*shrugs* It's a trait Matt's known for now. Might as well make the most of it and run with it since it's another thing that makes his book distinct from the rest of the comics on the shelves.

Dimetre wrote:
I'm annoyed that Noto drew the Vigil to be so visually arresting, but so unknowable. I guess the Vigil represented the permanent embrace of death, but he really wasn't much of a character. He just looked really cool.

RGdesigner wrote:
Mike Murdock, was kinda funny as a plot device at first, but him actually running around is ridiculous. He needs to be killed off and quickly forgotten as soon as possible.

Rand wrote:
It wasn't a good idea -- much less a "wonderful" one -- to bring back Matt's fictional twin brother. Worse still: we're stuck with him now; the most we can hope for (I guess) is that no future writer ever mentions the fact of his existence again.

The Vigil was Matt’s Catholic Guilt. The Catholic Vigil is also known as a wake before a funeral. That said, his character design was awesome, and IMHO too good to not reuse. I hope someone down the line makes him a real non-dream character, and it might as well be Mike since I’m the only one who likes him apparently. I thought Mike would turn out to be the new villain anyway, so it’d work well for everyone.
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