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How do you rate Bendis' run on Daredevil?
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How do you rate Bendis' run on Daredevil?
*****
51%
 51%  [ 18 ]
****
20%
 20%  [ 7 ]
***
17%
 17%  [ 6 ]
**
8%
 8%  [ 3 ]
*
2%
 2%  [ 1 ]
Total Votes : 35

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james castle
Devil in Cell-Block D


Joined: 30 Jul 2004
Posts: 1999
Location: Toronto, Ontario

PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2006 3:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Solid Snake PAC wrote:
huh...I wonder if that was during that period of Issues? I wonder....


huh...I wonder if this post makes any sense? I wonder...
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Pete
Fall From Grace


Joined: 29 Jul 2004
Posts: 417
Location: Liverpool, UK

PostPosted: Sat Feb 11, 2006 6:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Forrest wrote:
Nocenti: 4.5 - Matt's mental breakdown upon returning to NYC was a bit much. Also, while she pulled it of 90% off the time, sometimes her political views came across as really trendy and awkward.)




You make some astute points Forrest. I'm in agreement with a lot of what you say. But as for the above points regarding Nocenti, in what way were her political views 'trendy' and 'awkward'?

Granted, with a subject like politics, a lot depends on your own personal views. When someone like Nocenti comes along and takes the reins of a mainstream superhero comic book, then proceeds to insert all kinds of political/social commentary into it, its not going to be to everyones liking. Her views on a number of issues like the environment and feminism are dealt with during her run. But far from being 'awkward' (unless they happen to run counter to your own standpoint on such issues of course) she created a long long run of interesting, thought provoking and original issues that only added to the depth of the central character. Nowhere at no time did I read her stuff and think, 'this just isn't DD' or 'Hey, Matt would never say/do that'. This wasn't a square peg trying to get into a round hole. If any Marvel character was suited to the stories she wanted to tell, that character was Matt. Nocenti followed on from Born Again. Instead of apeing/doing a carbon copy of Miller she was original right from the start and made the book her own. Despite a lot of support from people on this board, I actually think she's still underated as a writer.

As for 'trendy'. With who? All these things came in the era of Reagan/Reagan/Bush Snr and Thatcher. Do you mean trendy in a students/counterculture/minority context? Her politics certainly wasn't palatable with the majority of western electorates back then in the 80's, nor with any policies emiting from western governments.
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Clayton Blind Love
Redemption


Joined: 30 Jul 2004
Posts: 772
Location: Beautiful British Columbia

PostPosted: Sat Feb 11, 2006 11:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

With respect to Guardian Devil, Karen never did have aids. It was all an illusion by Mysterio.

Issue #7

"It's amazing isn't it? A lifetime full of questionable moral behavior did more to convince her that she was riddled with disease than me in my rented doctor suit. Maybe she was HIV-positive, maybe she wasn't. You'd think she'd at least get a second opinion." - Mysterio

I thought that part was well written by Smith and made a lot of sense for Mysterio to prey on both Karen's and Matt's emotions like that. Master of illusion. Even has readers fooled to this day.

Anyhow, I just wanted to express this. I come across this a lot when discussing GD with friends. People seem to believe that Karen did, in fact, have aids in this story.



C.
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rgj
Hardcore


Joined: 29 Jul 2004
Posts: 1580
Location: The Rio Grande Valley of Texas

PostPosted: Sat Feb 11, 2006 7:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pete is absolutely right.

I feel that Nocenti was brilliant and original. Everyone here is in awe (justifiably so) of Bendis's long "outing" arc. Well, Ann's arcs also had one theme: Matt coming to terms as both man of the law and vigilante. It was about Matt trying to understand his own use of violence to stop violence. Was he just a hypocrite or was there, truly, something more noble in his actions. His journey took him away from Hell's Kitchen to Hell itself. And, then threre is the Blind Boxer Saga. As james castle said, in Born Again Miller showed us that Matt was a hero when he wasn't Daredevil. In Blind Boxer Nocenti showed us that Matt was a hero when Matt wasn't . . . Matt. See, any writer who doesn't understand Matt would have thought, *cool, this memory loss gives me a chance to write DD as a criminal, since he doesn't remember who he is*, but Nocenti knows the essence of Matt. Matt, with amnesia and all, couldn't do what Nyla wanted him to do because inside Matt there is a moral barometer that even memory loss can not eclipse. Great stuff by Nocenti. Miller showed us that at Matt's core he is a fighter. Nocenti showed us that at Matt's core he is a "good man." Those two things are at his core. And, nothing he loses can ever take those things away. He fights the good fight.

rgj
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Forrest
Lowlife


Joined: 07 Dec 2004
Posts: 1439

PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2006 6:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pete wrote:
Forrest wrote:
Nocenti: 4.5 - Matt's mental breakdown upon returning to NYC was a bit much. Also, while she pulled it of 90% off the time, sometimes her political views came across as really trendy and awkward.)


You make some astute points Forrest. I'm in agreement with a lot of what you say. But as for the above points regarding Nocenti, in what way were her political views 'trendy' and 'awkward'?


I should mention that Nocenti is an absolutely brilliant writer. I enjoy her DD work more than Miller's. I was simply giving a reason why she's not a straight up 5 star writing, in my current opinion.

I would say 'trendy' in that I could almost guess which political topics Nocenti would bring up because they were the trendy "liberal" topics of the day. Usually, Nocenti's politics played very well into DD stories when it related to poverty, corporate injustice (remember, Matt's lawyer), etc. However, at other times, she seemed to be trying too hard to fit a political statement in at the expense of the story (i.e. Bullet's kid). While she usually wrote political elements into her stories very well, Nocenti's writing often seemed to use politics as a schtick. At times like Bullet's kid, it seemed to be more of a fashion/trendy angle than a story telling angle.

This follows into the 'awkward' angle. When I'm reading a story and it seems like the DD story has stopped completely at the expense of a political statement, it's awkward.

P.S. Chichester had some absolutely ridiculous lines in FFG where I couldn't tell if he was trying to write the character or if he was simply ranting because Clinton was in the White House. Razz
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1ringwdforce
Flying Blind


Joined: 04 Apr 2006
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 04, 2006 10:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

All i have to say is...

Good luck to Ed Brubaker and all the writers after Brubaker who will try to match or even out rank the stories weaved by Brian Michael Bendis. Cool
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Forrest
Lowlife


Joined: 07 Dec 2004
Posts: 1439

PostPosted: Tue Apr 04, 2006 11:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

In this fan's opinion, Bru and Lark are already leaving Bendis and Maleev in the dust! Razz

Actually, I don't think Brubaker and Lark are even going to need luck. They have the skills to pay the bills!!!
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straygoat
Flying Blind


Joined: 07 Apr 2006
Posts: 14
Location: UK

PostPosted: Fri Apr 07, 2006 10:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello, first time poster here!

I'd give the run 5 stars, but then I've only read it in trade format so maybe there are pacing problems that didn't get highlighted. (I hate buying individual issues!).

For me, the whole run was interesting because it was about real issues that might affect a vigilante, not just a series of fights with costumed villains. The arcs were intelligent and showed the dangers of what Matt chooses to do. I've read a lot of criticisms of the work saying that there wasn't enough action but I praise that - I don't want to see fight after meaningless fight. That's kids stuff and Daredevil has always been a more mature character.

But the best thing about Bendis' run was that it changed the status quo. Daredevil and Matt are different at the end of the story and that can only be a good thing. It is about time Marvel learned that the best way to deal with their characters is to have them go through changes, have them make mistakes and learn from them and come out the other side a little altered. That's what makes us care about the characters. It seems to me that there's been an aggressive 'we must preserve the status quo' attitude for at least 15 years. Change is good!

There were a few minor quibbles I had with Bendis' run, but on the whole it was the best Daredevil work I have seen. Yes, I preferred it to Miller's work.
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Forrest
Lowlife


Joined: 07 Dec 2004
Posts: 1439

PostPosted: Fri Apr 07, 2006 12:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

straygoat wrote:
It is about time Marvel learned that the best way to deal with their characters is to have them go through changes, have them make mistakes and learn from them and come out the other side a little altered. That's what makes us care about the characters. It seems to me that there's been an aggressive 'we must preserve the status quo' attitude for at least 15 years. Change is good!


I'd say since the days of Stan Lee, Daredevil has been constantly evolving as you described. This is especially the case since Born Again.
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straygoat
Flying Blind


Joined: 07 Apr 2006
Posts: 14
Location: UK

PostPosted: Sat Apr 08, 2006 10:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Of all the characters out there, DD has had the best writing and most character development over the years - that's probably why I am still hooked. But prior to Bendis' run, I felt things were getting a bit stale - and that includes Smith's run. I don't understand fans' appreciation of Smith to be honest...I've hated everything he has done, including his films.

I just hope that after the new run, we're not left with Matt back in Hell's Kitchen, working as a lawyer and stalking the nights as DD - that would just be a full circle and makes the whole 'out' setup pointless. And if Foggy is dead, keep him dead.

One interesting thing that I thought came up from the end of Bendis' run was what would happen to Matt psychologically if he did lose it and take Bullseye out for good? I'd like to see him struggle with guilt over commiting murder and getting away with it.
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Stephan
Humanity's Fathom


Joined: 30 Sep 2004
Posts: 303

PostPosted: Thu Apr 13, 2006 8:04 pm    Post subject: Bendis' DISASTROUS Run Reply with quote

Bendis SULLIED our hero. That self-important, conceited, narcissistic status seeker blackened and tarnished Matthew Michael Murdock, reducing a champion of justice to a tormented prison inmate. And for what purpose? To achieve what, exactly? Are readers yearning for more? Has DD's imprisonment bolstered sales significantly? Are we moved by Matt's plight? No. Readers are either indifferent or utterly dismayed. Bendis saddled Brubaker with a senseless, meaningless plotline that (truth be told) most DD enthusiasts can barely stomach. We have been subjected to seemingly interminable years of trials and tribulations - and we are collectively weary of it. Bendis exploits Marvel characters to attain his own narrow ends - and is oblivious to the long-term damage he inflicts upon them.
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train
Guardian Devil


Joined: 29 Jul 2004
Posts: 659
Location: Hell's Pantry

PostPosted: Thu Apr 13, 2006 8:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

nice to see you back 'round these parts again, stephan. what's your take on the first 2 issues of brubaker and lark?
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Darediva
Wake Up


Joined: 29 Jul 2004
Posts: 1208
Location: Hell's Kitchen South, Arkansas, USA

PostPosted: Fri Apr 14, 2006 1:26 am    Post subject: Re: Bendis' DISASTROUS Run Reply with quote

Stephan wrote:
Readers are either indifferent or utterly dismayed. Bendis saddled Brubaker with a senseless, meaningless plotline that (truth be told) most DD enthusiasts can barely stomach.


I am neither indifferent or utterly dismayed, but I AM a reader. Hmm.

I have also found plenty of DD fans (why use a big word when a short one will suffice Rolling Eyes ) who have thoroughly enjoyed the story. I have yet to figure out exactly WHAT KIND of story you seem to think should be told, Stephan. Would you be so kind as to enlighten us?
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MercifulAvatar
Playing to the Camera


Joined: 27 Apr 2005
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Location: NEO, US

PostPosted: Sat Apr 15, 2006 1:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

He kept me coming back for the next issue.
I can't remember him insulting my intelligence.
But I was ready for someone else.

I do hate him for bailing on The Pulse, the disloyal bastard.
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Lundonj
Flying Blind


Joined: 21 Apr 2006
Posts: 25
Location: Colorado

PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2006 12:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I gave what I read of the Bendis run two stars.

It turns out, it is the only substantive break in my run of DD books. Going in, I thought it was a match made in heaven for the devil, because I'm a big fan of Bendis' non-Marvel works (Powers, Torso, Jinx, etc.).

Looks like I made it to about #58, but was really going through the motions at that point and comics are too expensive anymore just to buy 'em for compete runs.

Every premise was solid, but the pacing and talking heads killed it for me. It was way too slow and not enough payoff in the decompressed storytelling style to keep me awake. And, I think the story ideas were decent, Matt's...erm...voice just didn't quite ring true to me. By most accounts, there was plenty of interesting adversity and a heckuva hole was dug for Matt to climb out of, it just didn't click.

Bendis writes a fun Spider-Man, at times, and I'm still checking out his New Avengers. I'm also glad his run kept the buzz going on a great character.


-Don
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