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| Is Bendis/Maleev's #26-50 better than Born Again? |
| Yep |
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18% |
[ 4 ] |
| No - you must be shrooming :P |
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81% |
[ 18 ] |
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| Total Votes : 22 |
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Forrest
Lowlife
Joined: 07 Dec 2004
Posts: 1439
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 Posted: Sat Feb 04, 2006 11:57 am Post subject: |
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| The Privateer wrote: | | I've not read Born Again, so I will abstain from voting. |
You're cheating yourself on so many levels! Next time you pick up a trade on a slow comic day, make it Born Again. If you don't like it, I'll fly across the Atlantic and personally give you a full refund in either pounds or dollars... heck, make it both!  |
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Pete
Fall From Grace
Joined: 29 Jul 2004
Posts: 417
Location: Liverpool, UK
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| Posted: Sat Feb 04, 2006 3:25 pm Post subject: |
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| Private, three words. Read Born Again. |
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noypi-me
Tree of Knowledge
Joined: 16 Aug 2004
Posts: 234
Location: Philippines
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| Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2006 10:44 pm Post subject: |
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they are very different from each other and cannot be compared. if you're gonna base it on the pacing of the story, of course you're gonna favor born again. but that is not bendis' fault. it's a question of preference. but if we're talking about the quality of the books both are of the highest.
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james castle
Devil in Cell-Block D
Joined: 30 Jul 2004
Posts: 1999
Location: Toronto, Ontario
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| Posted: Tue Feb 07, 2006 10:28 am Post subject: |
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| The Privateer wrote: | I've not read Born Again, so I will abstain from voting. Though if it appears to be better than #26-#50, then I had better prioritise it on my reading list.
Good topic Forrest, it has certainly got everyone going! |
I think it's best if no one speak to Private until he reads Born Again.
I'm not kidding.
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JC
So why can't you see the funny side?
Why aren't you laughing? |
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Kingpin
Flying Blind
Joined: 08 Feb 2006
Posts: 6
Location: Warsaw, Poland
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| Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 11:46 am Post subject: |
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Born Again
Born Again
Born Again
Even though I love the whole Bendis/Maleev run.
Without "Born Again" there would never be "Out" or "Lowlife" or "Hardcore".
Even Bendis had to learn from someone. |
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Forrest
Lowlife
Joined: 07 Dec 2004
Posts: 1439
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| Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 2:41 pm Post subject: |
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| noypi-me wrote: | | they are very different from each other and cannot be compared. if you're gonna base it on the pacing of the story, of course you're gonna favor born again. but that is not bendis' fault. it's a question of preference. but if we're talking about the quality of the books both are of the highest. |
Well said. Born Again appeals more to action and the specific character. Bendis's story is more of a broad study of superheros and society. That aspect really appeals to me. Considering it is done so well (1000x better than Powers, etc.), I enjoy it more than Born Again. Still, it's a very, very close race. |
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Forrest
Lowlife
Joined: 07 Dec 2004
Posts: 1439
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| Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 2:42 pm Post subject: |
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| james castle wrote: | | The Privateer wrote: | I've not read Born Again, so I will abstain from voting. Though if it appears to be better than #26-#50, then I had better prioritise it on my reading list.
Good topic Forrest, it has certainly got everyone going! |
I think it's best if no one speak to Private until he reads Born Again.
I'm not kidding. |
There's some merit to that. |
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noypi-me
Tree of Knowledge
Joined: 16 Aug 2004
Posts: 234
Location: Philippines
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| Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 9:39 pm Post subject: |
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| Kingpin wrote: | Born Again
Born Again
Born Again
Even though I love the whole Bendis/Maleev run.
Without "Born Again" there would never be "Out" or "Lowlife" or "Hardcore".
Even Bendis had to learn from someone. |
i admit that born again set the standard, but it does'nt mean it can not be surpassed. bendis may have continued what miller started, but he also made it his own. i dare say that bendis did some things better than miller.
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rgj
Hardcore
Joined: 29 Jul 2004
Posts: 1580
Location: The Rio Grande Valley of Texas
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| Posted: Thu Feb 09, 2006 1:53 am Post subject: |
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Nothing Bendis did came close to the excellence that is Born Again. That doesn't mean Bendis's stuff wasn't good. It's just not Born Again. Look, when we look back at Nocienti's Pilgrimage Saga or Blind Boxer Saga we think it's wonderful. When we look back at those early Chichester's stories we think they are wonderful. And, in a few years when we look back at Bendis's run we'll think it wonderfully good, too. But, it will not be looked at with the reverence of Born Again. I know we're emotional people, what with the "here and now" dynamic. But, it's still not Born Again.
rgj
edit: I just noticed that my new avator title is "Ninja" (interestingly enough by Bendis). Did I just take a step back? Ninja sucked. |
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Kingpin
Flying Blind
Joined: 08 Feb 2006
Posts: 6
Location: Warsaw, Poland
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| Posted: Thu Feb 09, 2006 4:58 am Post subject: |
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| noypi-me wrote: | | i dare say that bendis did some things better than miller. |
Even the student can make some things better than his master 
In fact I agree with you, that some Bendis' ideas rule, but still the inspiration is easy to notice. |
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Forrest
Lowlife
Joined: 07 Dec 2004
Posts: 1439
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| Posted: Thu Feb 09, 2006 12:37 pm Post subject: |
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The writing in the Elektra Saga was wonderful, but it wasn't revolutionary at all. However, the writing in Born Again was. Still, Miller was a student of others. (Gangster movies/novels, film noir, etc. ...Miller fans might be more versed in Miller's confessed influences.) Every writer, including Shakespeare, is a student of others. The same is true of music, movies, comics, etc.
At the same time, I see all your points. If in ten years, Bendis's DD story is not as esteemed as Born Again, the only two reasons will be because it was many more issues than Born Again and Mazz wasn't the artist. However, in ten years, Bendis's DD will impact the industry and readers every bit as much Born Again did. |
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rgj
Hardcore
Joined: 29 Jul 2004
Posts: 1580
Location: The Rio Grande Valley of Texas
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| Posted: Thu Feb 09, 2006 3:59 pm Post subject: |
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| Forrest wrote: | | However, in ten years, Bendis's DD will impact the industry and readers every bit as much Born Again did. |
Well, Miller influenced many writers sure (just look at how many DD writers alone have "destroyed" and rebuilt Matt's life, or gave him a failed relationship with some woman), and Jim Lee blatently stole from Miller when he gave Gambit the ace of spade cards and gave Psylocke an Elektra-like makeover. So, yeah, I guess Bendis will influence others that follow. I'm sure in ten years we'll see a six issue arc that takes place at a dining room table in which the superheros do nothing but talk about their day
rgj |
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Kingpin
Flying Blind
Joined: 08 Feb 2006
Posts: 6
Location: Warsaw, Poland
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| Posted: Thu Feb 09, 2006 4:58 pm Post subject: |
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| Forrest wrote: | Every writer, including Shakespeare, is a student of others. The same is true of music, movies, comics, etc.
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All true... but some say, that all the best songs have already been writen, you now what I mean?
Still I don't want to disrespect Bendis's work, but Born Again was a milestone not only for DD, but to comics generally.
I totally agree, that we have to wait years to see if Bendis's DD is timeless... |
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hylozoii
Playing to the Camera
Joined: 19 Jun 2005
Posts: 148
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| Posted: Sun Feb 12, 2006 2:59 am Post subject: |
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I think Bendis does better dialogue and his treatment of Matt and Foggy is just smooth and smart. Miller did more narration which is cool for some people, but I like for the art to show the thinking and emotions and for the dialogue to tell the story, not narration. That's just me, but I like more dialogue and less narration. I think for the 80s, Miller changed the medium in his own right. Bendis took a leap to "out" DD and make him the Kingpin. Only weakness is that Bendis couldn't wrap things up and only addressed the tabloid issue on his final run, which he then gave to Brubaker to resolve. Some part of me believes Bendis used the tabloid outting to be able to create more stories thus being huge fillers. The Owl, Trial of the Centure, Golden Age, and the Demon Baby stories could be considered fillers. He finally addressed the tabloids in his last arc. BUT, I believe he is overseeing and working with Brubaker on the resolution.
I'm not voting, but I believe people will be treating Bendis in the future like we treat Miller now. Though Miller's Allstar Batman is complete ****. But also if Brubaker's run is good, it may lessen Bendis' legend. |
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Forrest
Lowlife
Joined: 07 Dec 2004
Posts: 1439
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| Posted: Sun Feb 12, 2006 1:33 pm Post subject: |
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| Trial of the Century was a crucial arc in Bendis's early DD. It was a big part of the study of superheroes, the law, modern media audiences, etc. While I agree that arcs like Widow and Golden Age were just filler, the Trial of the Century was an important and terribly underrated arc. |
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