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Stephan
Humanity's Fathom
Joined: 30 Sep 2004
Posts: 303
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 Posted: Tue Aug 01, 2006 9:27 pm Post subject: |
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Wilson Fisk, in my estimation, is an integral part of the DD mythos. He is more than simply a DD antagonist, more than an implacable foe. He is Matt's nemesis. Fisk's trials and tribulations are a fundamental component of this comic. Am I suggesting that Fisk must appear in every issue? Of course not. But his appearances should be more frequent than that of other adversaries.
And Fisk is perhaps the most tenacious character in the annals of comic history. DD Vol. #1 #340 (among my favorite Kingpin appearances) illustrates this. Bereft of his empire, reduced to "Inveigle's Auto Yard," Fisk is nonetheless supremely confident and self-assured. He has no doubt that he will once again ascend to the throne. And neither should you... |
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james castle
Devil in Cell-Block D
Joined: 30 Jul 2004
Posts: 1999
Location: Toronto, Ontario
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| Posted: Tue Aug 01, 2006 10:05 pm Post subject: |
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Well said Stevie.
_________________
JC
So why can't you see the funny side?
Why aren't you laughing? |
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rgj
Hardcore
Joined: 29 Jul 2004
Posts: 1580
Location: The Rio Grande Valley of Texas
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| Posted: Wed Aug 02, 2006 4:27 pm Post subject: |
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jc is absolutley right. The last time Fisk had a real stronghold on his empire was LAST RITES. And, that was the greatest "Matt takes down Fisk" story ever. KP's return to power during Parts of a Hole/Underboss was rushed and his hold on the empire was tenuous at best. Throw in going blind and it really, just didn't work.
Stephen is right. Like it, or not, Fisk is an important component to this series. He's as important as Satan in the Bible. We need his darkness to contrast Matt's light. Instead of putting KP on the shelf (although a brief rest wouln't be unwelcomed) how about Brubaker SHOW us Kingpin rise to true power once again. After all, in a way, he is going to show us Matt's return.
rgj |
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The Overlord
Paradiso
Joined: 22 Aug 2004
Posts: 1095
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| Posted: Wed Aug 02, 2006 4:36 pm Post subject: |
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| rgj wrote: | jc is absolutley right. The last time Fisk had a real stronghold on his empire was LAST RITES. And, that was the greatest "Matt takes down Fisk" story ever. KP's return to power during Parts of a Hole/Underboss was rushed and his hold on the empire was tenuous at best. Throw in going blind and it really, just didn't work.
Stephen is right. Like it, or not, Fisk is an important component to this series. He's as important as Satan in the Bible. We need his darkness to contrast Matt's light. Instead of putting KP on the shelf (although a brief rest wouln't be unwelcomed) how about Brubaker SHOW us Kingpin rise to true power once again. After all, in a way, he is going to show us Matt's return.
rgj |
Perhaps your right, but Kingpin's return has to happen sutble and slow this time, frankly first Kingpin needs some to recover from his past defeats and really plan out his return, his attempt in Hardcore seemed kinda rushed and sloppy it seemed like Fisk was too impatient, which is why DD took it apart like a cheap watch. Kingpin should wait, let DD deal with other problems, while he plans, covers every angle and then after a suitible amount of time and DD begun to think that Kingpin may not return, then Fisk can strike. |
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Stephan
Humanity's Fathom
Joined: 30 Sep 2004
Posts: 303
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| Posted: Fri Aug 04, 2006 5:46 pm Post subject: |
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| Former DD scribe D.G. Chicester supposedly contemplated a radical change for Wilson Fisk: transforming him into a gang member, a hoodlum with his own "posse," so to speak. Would any of you welcome such a change? Karl Kesel, meanwhile, once proposed that Matt become an office-holder, perhaps a city councilman or mayor. What a riveting story that would be - Murdock, the public servant, waging a valiant struggle (in both his guises) against Fisk, the thug and racketeer! |
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Forrest
Lowlife
Joined: 07 Dec 2004
Posts: 1439
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| Posted: Fri Aug 04, 2006 7:36 pm Post subject: |
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| rgj wrote: | | Stephen is right. Like it, or not, Fisk is an important component to this series. He's as important as Satan in the Bible. |
See, I disagree. Kingpin is definitely the greatest villain DD has ever faced and when properly written, he is a fascinating character. Still, it is entirely possible to seperate Fisk from the book. Heck, I wouldn't be mad at all if Fisk was killed by a great storyteller in a great story. Maybe that would help with this silly notion that DD is Miller's book. It's not. Miller was simply a great DD writer, but not signficantly better than Nocenti, Lee, Chichester, Loeb, Brubaker  , etc.
The Kingpin can be eliminated, replaced or ignored at no inherit consequence.
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"Flash is back. Worlds will die again!" |
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rgj
Hardcore
Joined: 29 Jul 2004
Posts: 1580
Location: The Rio Grande Valley of Texas
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| Posted: Fri Aug 04, 2006 8:02 pm Post subject: |
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I agree that we disagree.
rgj |
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The Overlord
Paradiso
Joined: 22 Aug 2004
Posts: 1095
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| Posted: Fri Aug 04, 2006 8:54 pm Post subject: |
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| Stephan wrote: | | Former DD scribe D.G. Chicester supposedly contemplated a radical change for Wilson Fisk: transforming him into a gang member, a hoodlum with his own "posse," so to speak. Would any of you welcome such a change? Karl Kesel, meanwhile, once proposed that Matt become an office-holder, perhaps a city councilman or mayor. What a riveting story that would be - Murdock, the public servant, waging a valiant struggle (in both his guises) against Fisk, the thug and racketeer! |
DD is not in a position to run for public office at this time, he first has to get his life in order and beat the charges laid against him. That idea could be workable in a year or two, but not now.
As for the Kingpin that is not a bad idea. First however the Kingpin needs time to beat the charges made against him and recover from his wound, so we shouldn't see him for a while. After that the Kingpin has to really low key, rebuild his empire from scratch, busting heads on the street and building things from the ground up. that could be very interesting sub plots. While DD is busy dealing with super powered freaks and psychos like Purple man, Typhod Mary, Bushwacker, Mr. Hyde, etc or other crime bosses making major plays (Silke's dad or a new Masked Marauder for example) the Kingpin is fighting tooth and nail to rebuild his empire from the ground up, one tiny step at a time. |
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The Overlord
Paradiso
Joined: 22 Aug 2004
Posts: 1095
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| Posted: Sat Aug 05, 2006 12:40 am Post subject: |
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| Forrest wrote: | | rgj wrote: | | Stephen is right. Like it, or not, Fisk is an important component to this series. He's as important as Satan in the Bible. |
See, I disagree. Kingpin is definitely the greatest villain DD has ever faced and when properly written, he is a fascinating character. Still, it is entirely possible to seperate Fisk from the book. Heck, I wouldn't be mad at all if Fisk was killed by a great storyteller in a great story. Maybe that would help with this silly notion that DD is Miller's book. It's not. Miller was simply a great DD writer, but not signficantly better than Nocenti, Lee, Chichester, Loeb, Brubaker , etc.
The Kingpin can be eliminated, replaced or ignored at no inherit consequence. |
I don't think DD fans would very happy if Kingpin were killed off, no matter what. Good villains are hard to come by and killing them can be dangerous. Besides I think Stephan's has potenial with a sub plot with Fisk as a low level gang member trying to rebuild his empire from the ground up. Plus if Kingpin, there is always the danger that someone will just bring him back later.
But you are correct, people have to stop recyling Miller's storylines and start developing new storylines of their own. Miller did an important thing for DD he changed the tone of the book, but just recyling his storylines is lazy. |
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