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The Overlord
Paradiso
Joined: 22 Aug 2004
Posts: 1095
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 Posted: Fri Aug 11, 2006 1:27 am Post subject: |
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| Stephan wrote: | Matt suffering yet another mental breakdown! That would truly be intolerable. Unless Matt is officially diagnosed with Bipolar Disorder or some such, there is no justification for this plot device ever being used again. Also: any further secret identity-related histrionics.
What does this long-standing DD devotee want to see? The return of Vanessa Fisk. Matt and Foggy practicing law. Ammo (or a comparable hoodlum). Willie Lincoln. Angela (if she and Matt are on speaking terms!). A resurrected Bont (whose obsession with Matt is reminiscent of Norman Osborn's Peter Parker fixation). Matt and Foggy practicing law. Kate. Richard Fisk (another resurrection). The Arranger (yet another resurrection). Did I mention Matt and Foggy practicing law? |
One thing I don't want to see resurrections, I hate that comic book trope. No resurrections, Bont and Richard still dead, because dead means dead, damn it! also if Foggy isd witiness protection how would he pratice law again? Also wouldn't take awhile for Matt to reestablish his law career. |
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Francesco
Underboss
Joined: 08 Jun 2006
Posts: 1307
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| Posted: Sat Aug 12, 2006 4:47 am Post subject: |
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| Stephan wrote: | | As you noted, I objected strongly to the gratuitous violence (and unbelievable, unprecedented continuity errors) in the aforementioned storyline. But I have also noted (on innumerable occassions) in this forum that Bont was a compelling character, and that I would welcome his return. Forgive me, but what does one issue have to do with the other -?! Obviously, a storyline can be gripping without carnage and gore. At any rate, Matt has few (if any) foes who abominate and detest him the way Bont does. That in itself warrants his revival. |
Well, personally I didn't have particular problems with this presumed gratuitous violence in Golden Age. After all, it was coherent with the story (Bont's insanity and hatred towards Murdock). |
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james castle
Devil in Cell-Block D
Joined: 30 Jul 2004
Posts: 1999
Location: Toronto, Ontario
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| Posted: Sat Aug 12, 2006 2:46 pm Post subject: |
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There was no gratuitous violence in Golden Age. The suggestion that there was is simply gratuitous bitching from a gratuitous troll.
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JC
So why can't you see the funny side?
Why aren't you laughing? |
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Darediva
Wake Up
Joined: 29 Jul 2004
Posts: 1208
Location: Hell's Kitchen South, Arkansas, USA
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| Posted: Sat Aug 12, 2006 4:31 pm Post subject: |
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| Stephan wrote: | | As you noted, I objected strongly to the gratuitous violence (and unbelievable, unprecedented continuity errors) in the aforementioned storyline. But I have also noted (on innumerable occassions) in this forum that Bont was a compelling character, and that I would welcome his return. Forgive me, but what does one issue have to do with the other -?! Obviously, a storyline can be gripping without carnage and gore. At any rate, Matt has few (if any) foes who abominate and detest him the way Bont does. That in itself warrants his revival. |
From the same thread, I again quote you: | Stephan wrote: | PostPosted: Fri Feb 18, 2005 3:04 pm
Hello, Fox. Your points are all well-taken, and you are entitled to your opinion. And it is unfortunate that brutality plagues our supposedly advanced society. The carnage and blood-letting in this series troubles me for a number of reasons. It was not merely violent; it was ruthless and sadistic. It was offensive and stomach-turning. Yes, Matthew has suffered mental breakdowns, been crushed by nefarious criminals and utterly defeated, etc., before. But with the possible exception of DD Vol. 1 #260 (which was appalling), no DD feature has ever been this objectionable. |
I see no references to Bont as a "compelling character" here. Nor here:
| Stephan wrote: | PostPosted: Thu Mar 03, 2005 10:31 am
Yes...but was that the objective of the writer in question, Eighties? Or did the wanton violence in this series stem from a lack of imagination and creativity? The conclusion, in particular, was sanguinary, brutal and...remarkably unfulfilling. Matt is mercilessly battered and his foe suffers an unspeakable fate, but critical issues are left unresolved. Bont was chiefly responsible for the untimely death of Matt's Father. Matt was never even afforded an opportunity to voice his rage and umbrage at this villan. The bloody conclusion was extraordinarily unsatisfying. |
This is as close as you ever get, and that I find only once: | Stephan wrote: | PostPosted: Thu Jan 27, 2005 12:17 pm
Hello there, Clayton. Glad you are the current story. As I noted, Bont (who possesses the canniness of The Kingpin and is consumed by the vengefulness of Norman Osborn) is a fascinating villan, and a welcome addition to Matt's rogues gallery. But the scenario you described above is without PRECEDENT in comic book history. A writer purports to tell one tale, and fails to produce it. This, to my knowledge, has NEVER happened before. And it is NOT a happy portent. What's next? Will Bendis begin to contradict himself in every ISSUE?! |
I could drag up a lot more quotes from you about violence and Bendis, but could not find "(on innumerable occassions)" where you said Bont was a compelling character, unless one = innumerable in your world.
what does one issue have to do with the other -?! The storyline that brought in Bont used Bont's cruelty and violence in his vendetta against Matt. That would certainly not be something that would just disappear from the man's personna. He would be a totally flat and uninteresting character if he had no big grudge match against Matt. Unless he got so skilled in prison that he could hack into Matt's bank records and disable his ATM card. Now THAT would really mess with Mr. Murdock!
No, Bont stays dead. Along with Richard Fisk.
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Alice
Those who throw dirt merely lose ground. |
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Dave Wallace
Paradiso
Joined: 29 Jul 2004
Posts: 1074
Location: Birmingham, UK
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| Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2006 10:26 am Post subject: |
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| I agree with Stephan on one thing though - I'd be interested to see Brubaker explore the legal angle of the character a little more. This was one of the major weaknesses of Bendis' otherwise-great run, in my opinion. |
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Clayton Blind Love
Redemption
Joined: 30 Jul 2004
Posts: 772
Location: Beautiful British Columbia
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| Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2006 12:19 pm Post subject: |
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Agreed. I'd like more "Trial of the Century" type of stories. That was the arc that could of been one of the best had Maleev worked on it. It was fairly well done as it stands.
Right now, however, I am excited to see Daredevil in Europe. It was long overdue to see Matt (or Mike I should say!) get out of New York.
C.
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Love is blindness, I don't want to see
Won't you wrap the night around me |
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Darediva
Wake Up
Joined: 29 Jul 2004
Posts: 1208
Location: Hell's Kitchen South, Arkansas, USA
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| Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2006 2:18 pm Post subject: |
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I'm anxious to see how Matt and Foggy could get back into law practice after all this stuff has gone down.
I don't want to see resurrections. New generations of bad guys, ok, but not resurrections. Bont was old, frail, and blew himself up with the MGH, so let him stay dead.
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Alice
Those who throw dirt merely lose ground. |
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Dave Wallace
Paradiso
Joined: 29 Jul 2004
Posts: 1074
Location: Birmingham, UK
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| Posted: Mon Aug 14, 2006 3:25 am Post subject: |
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| Darediva wrote: | | I'm anxious to see how Matt and Foggy could get back into law practice after all this stuff has gone down. |
Yeah, that's a big stumbling block. Say, has Mike Murdock ever practised law...?  |
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Francesco
Underboss
Joined: 08 Jun 2006
Posts: 1307
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| Posted: Mon Aug 14, 2006 8:34 am Post subject: |
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Well, to me the idea of Bont returning to exact his revenge sounds intriguing.
Who cares if it looks like he's dead? People keep dying and resurrect repeatedly in every other side of the Marvel Universe.
Have the story like, say, that Bont had arranged with some hi-tech guy to be made anew with cybernetic implants (should he had an heart attack while trying to kill Murdock in an initial attempt with an old fashioned MGH-pounding) and bang! you got what everyone was waiting for. A new, terrifying addition to DD's villain roster. |
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Dave Wallace
Paradiso
Joined: 29 Jul 2004
Posts: 1074
Location: Birmingham, UK
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| Posted: Mon Aug 14, 2006 11:33 am Post subject: |
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| The Bont-bot! He'll be the next Stilt-man, you mark my words... |
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train
Guardian Devil
Joined: 29 Jul 2004
Posts: 659
Location: Hell's Pantry
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| Posted: Mon Aug 14, 2006 1:43 pm Post subject: |
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| Dave Wallace wrote: | | The Bont-bot |
Hell yeah! I could totally see a new emmisaries of evil here. Bont-bot, Paste Pot Pete, MODOK and Mindwave. You taking notes Brubaker? This stuff is so money...and you don't even know it. |
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The Overlord
Paradiso
Joined: 22 Aug 2004
Posts: 1095
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| Posted: Mon Aug 14, 2006 2:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Francesco wrote: | Well, to me the idea of Bont returning to exact his revenge sounds intriguing.
Who cares if it looks like he's dead? People keep dying and resurrect repeatedly in every other side of the Marvel Universe.
Have the story like, say, that Bont had arranged with some hi-tech guy to be made anew with cybernetic implants (should he had an heart attack while trying to kill Murdock in an initial attempt with an old fashioned MGH-pounding) and bang! you got what everyone was waiting for. A new, terrifying addition to DD's villain roster. |
I don't think so, a cyborg zombie would be a little too out there for DD. Frankly I hate it when comic book characters are resurrected, its my least favourvite cliche in comics. Just because every other title is resurrecting characters doesn't mean that should be done in the DD title. Bont was a one shot character to bring back as a cyborg zombie would be stupid. |
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Francesco
Underboss
Joined: 08 Jun 2006
Posts: 1307
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| Posted: Mon Aug 14, 2006 4:13 pm Post subject: |
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| Bummer. What about a demonic Bont, with the guy coming back to exact his revenge thanks to a pact with some infernal entity? |
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james castle
Devil in Cell-Block D
Joined: 30 Jul 2004
Posts: 1999
Location: Toronto, Ontario
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| Posted: Mon Aug 14, 2006 4:26 pm Post subject: |
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| The Master Meglomaniac wrote: | | Francesco wrote: | Well, to me the idea of Bont returning to exact his revenge sounds intriguing.
Who cares if it looks like he's dead? People keep dying and resurrect repeatedly in every other side of the Marvel Universe.
Have the story like, say, that Bont had arranged with some hi-tech guy to be made anew with cybernetic implants (should he had an heart attack while trying to kill Murdock in an initial attempt with an old fashioned MGH-pounding) and bang! you got what everyone was waiting for. A new, terrifying addition to DD's villain roster. |
I don't think so, a cyborg zombie would be a little too out there for DD. Frankly I hate it when comic book characters are resurrected, its my least favourvite cliche in comics. Just because every other title is resurrecting characters doesn't mean that should be done in the DD title. Bont was a one shot character to bring back as a cyborg zombie would be stupid. |
I agree. Marvel: bring Bont back either as a cyborg or a zombie, but NOT BOTH. Cyborgs are wicked cool and zombie's just make good scientific sense but cyborg zombie's are just ridiculous.
_________________
JC
So why can't you see the funny side?
Why aren't you laughing? |
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The Overlord
Paradiso
Joined: 22 Aug 2004
Posts: 1095
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| Posted: Mon Aug 14, 2006 8:49 pm Post subject: |
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| Francesco wrote: | | Bummer. What about a demonic Bont, with the guy coming back to exact his revenge thanks to a pact with some infernal entity? |
Didn't Copperhead already do that already? Is Bont going to rip off Copperhead? I mean come on Bont goes from aging crime lord to demon helper? That's just silly. Bont should stay in the grave, where he belongs. The one thing I don't want to see is resurrections in DD. |
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