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How do you feel about Echo/Ronin?
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How do you feel about Echo/Ronin?
Love her as Echo, not sure about Ronin
66%
 66%  [ 10 ]
Dig Ronin but Echo was a bore
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
Fans of both
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
None of the above
33%
 33%  [ 5 ]
Total Votes : 15

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Forrest
Lowlife


Joined: 07 Dec 2004
Posts: 1439

PostPosted: Fri Dec 01, 2006 1:46 pm    Post subject: How do you feel about Echo/Ronin? Reply with quote

Personally, I LOVED Parts of a Hole. I haven't read any Ronin that really grabbed me. Still, I think this character has great potential and I'd love to see her in the pages of the ongoing DD title, as long as we forget about the "Echo" arc. Razz
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james castle
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Joined: 30 Jul 2004
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Location: Toronto, Ontario

PostPosted: Fri Dec 01, 2006 1:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I none of the aboved since the poll is missing the obvious option of "didn't like either of them".

I found Echo as boring as boring could be. She's a Taskmaster rip with a "wow, she has a disability too" twist. I've collected DD since I was a wee boy and have never missed an issue. Well, never missed an issue other than Vision Quest which I still can't bring myself to buy.

With regard to Ronin, I've never read an issue with this character in it but I'd like someone to explain to me why she's dressed as a man/ninja. It seems to me that no satisfactory answer is even possible. Ronin was nothing more than a really badly executed marketting ploy.

Boo to both.
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Forrest
Lowlife


Joined: 07 Dec 2004
Posts: 1439

PostPosted: Fri Dec 01, 2006 6:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

james castle wrote:
Well, never missed an issue other than Vision Quest which I still can't bring myself to buy.


I'd say that is a wise decision! Razz

If I ever open those issues again, it will only be to look at the pretty pictures... well, the dialogue may be a good sleep aid.
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rgj
Hardcore


Joined: 29 Jul 2004
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 01, 2006 9:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree with everything jc said. Echo is just a rip off of Taskmaster. A much cooler character.

rgj
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vtsoxfan7
Playing to the Camera


Joined: 31 Jan 2006
Posts: 182
Location: The 'noke, VA

PostPosted: Fri Dec 01, 2006 10:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I also enjoyed Echo in 'Parts of a Hole'. She may be a Taskmaster rip, but I enjoyed her. This may be because it was some of the first DD I read, I don't know. I really didn't mind 'Vision Quest' either. It NEVER should have been run in the normal DD run of things (as it was completely out of place). It was a bit slow and most likely wouldn't have worked well as a mini as a result (maybe why they just used it as filler) but I didn't think the story was all that horrible. Again, just personal opinion.
I didn't like the whole Ronin thing though. The fact that Echo doesn't look the least bit feminine as Ronin takes away from the believability for me. I guess she has to keep up the guise for a bit since only the Avengers know her true identity, but I really hope she drops the Ronin get up in the not too distant future.
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Francesco
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Joined: 08 Jun 2006
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 02, 2006 6:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I appreciated Echo as was written, narrated and drawn by David Mack. The Ronin thing was a huge disappointment, which had the only result of ruining a promising character.
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Slim Sandy
Flying Blind


Joined: 14 Jan 2006
Posts: 32
Location: Los Angeles, CA

PostPosted: Sat Dec 02, 2006 4:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

yeah, I like Echo, i actually want to see her around a bit more, but Ronin was so ridiculous i couldnt believe it. I still to this day believe that it was originally intended to be Matty Boy, but Bendis decided it would conflict with where he was headed with DD. And after having realized this after the release of the "mystery avenger" pictures...they dug themselves into a hole so they came up with the halfbaked idea of Echo as Ronin..inbcliawbnwbewla;iw bciwcwi.. i still cant get over how lame it was
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Darediva
Wake Up


Joined: 29 Jul 2004
Posts: 1208
Location: Hell's Kitchen South, Arkansas, USA

PostPosted: Sat Dec 02, 2006 7:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I really thought after seeing the release of the Mystery Avenger in USA Today that Marvel had to backpedal and change a lot of stuff at the last minute. When Bendis and Brubaker got together to send Matt off to prison, that would have put a major monkey wrench in the works of Matt being Ronin. At the time of the release of the cover photo, the hints were out that the Mystery Avenger had a recent movie, and that the weapons were a clue to the identity. Those signs pointed straight at DD. Was it total BS at that point, or did they have to do some quick revision to pull Matt out and put Echo in? Who knows.

I liked Echo as her own self, but have little use for her as Ronin. It makes no sense that this little wisp of a female can be that agile in a bulked-up costume.
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TheManWithoutFear
Fall From Grace


Joined: 21 Jan 2005
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 03, 2006 2:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like Echo.
I like Echo on The New Avengers.
I still have no idea why she needs to hide her identity with the Ronin get up.
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Dimetre
Underboss


Joined: 16 Feb 2006
Posts: 1366
Location: Toronto

PostPosted: Sun Dec 03, 2006 4:15 am    Post subject: Echo Reply with quote

I loved Parts of a Hole. I think it's still may favourite arc from Volume 2 (although The Devil Takes a Ride may unseat it when it's done). I loved the dynamic between her and Daredevil, and it really bothered me that she got completely forgotten during Bendis' and Gale's subsequent work on the book. And Vision Quest had no business being published as part of the Daredevil series. David Mack clearly intended it to be it's own mini-series that would serve to introduce Echo to a new audience outside of Daredevil.

Echo introduced me to David Mack, and as I've read more of his work, I've become convinced he's a genius. His fusion of text and art is truly original. (He can, however, finish Kabuki: The Alchemy any time now.)

I don't know much about Ronin, but it is ridiculous for her to dress up like a man and fight in an identity seperate from Echo. A preview blurb says she's going to battle Elektra for the leadership of the Japanese underworld? Why on earth would she do that? I thought she found peace in her vision quest. I'll never understand the inner workings of Bendis' mind.
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train
Guardian Devil


Joined: 29 Jul 2004
Posts: 659
Location: Hell's Pantry

PostPosted: Sun Dec 03, 2006 1:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

echo is alright. not great, but a decent character. ronin is crap. total crap. why does she look masculine in her ronin get up? where'd the boobs go? Rolling Eyes
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Dave Wallace
Paradiso


Joined: 29 Jul 2004
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 03, 2006 6:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Darediva wrote:
It makes no sense that this little wisp of a female can be that agile in a bulked-up costume.


train wrote:
why does she look masculine in her ronin get up? where'd the boobs go? Rolling Eyes


Apparently this is going to be addressed in the next New Avengers arc (which starts in the issue after next, with Leinil Yu as penciller). The obvious answer is, of course, that Ronin was originally slated to be DD, as Darediva suggests. There's a lot of evidence to point to this.
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Francesco
Underboss


Joined: 08 Jun 2006
Posts: 1307

PostPosted: Mon Dec 04, 2006 11:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You mean that there's the possibility that they come out saying "Ronin was, in fact, Matt Murdock. In the end, he asked Echo to pose as Ronin just to unmask"?

God forbid it.
Disappointed as I am for the ruination of a promising character such as Echo, I'm still thanking heavens that Ronin wasn't DD. That would've been much worse.
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The Overlord
Paradiso


Joined: 22 Aug 2004
Posts: 1095

PostPosted: Mon Dec 04, 2006 12:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think with Echo, they went to the psycho girl friend well once too often.
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David Mack
Flying Blind


Joined: 08 Dec 2006
Posts: 3

PostPosted: Sat Dec 09, 2006 8:28 am    Post subject: Re: Echo Reply with quote

Dimetre wrote:
I loved Parts of a Hole. I think it's still may favourite arc from Volume 2 (although The Devil Takes a Ride may unseat it when it's done). I loved the dynamic between her and Daredevil, and it really bothered me that she got completely forgotten during Bendis' and Gale's subsequent work on the book. And Vision Quest had no business being published as part of the Daredevil series. David Mack clearly intended it to be it's own mini-series that would serve to introduce Echo to a new audience outside of Daredevil.

Echo introduced me to David Mack, and as I've read more of his work, I've become convinced he's a genius. His fusion of text and art is truly original. (He can, however, finish Kabuki: The Alchemy any time now.)

I don't know much about Ronin, but it is ridiculous for her to dress up like a man and fight in an identity seperate from Echo. A preview blurb says she's going to battle Elektra for the leadership of the Japanese underworld? Why on earth would she do that? I thought she found peace in her vision quest. I'll never understand the inner workings of Bendis' mind.


Hi Dimetre,
Thank you for the kind words about my work!
I'm glad to hear that you really enjoy my DD story Parts of a Hole.
That was a real joy to write Daredevil.
And thanks for using that introduction to my work to find my larger body of work in KABUKI.

I hope you are ejoying the current KABUKI: THE ALCHEMY from Marvel's ICON. There are 7 issues of it out now and #8 will be out soon.

And the new issue of REFLECTIONS (#7) hits stores from Marvel this month.

You may be interested to know that there is a DVD documentary of my work that also ships in December called THE ALCHEMY OF ART.
You can see a trailer of it at davidmackguide.com.

Kindest regards to everyone here,
David
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