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Daredevil #93 (Spoilers)
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Grade DD #93
A+
25%
 25%  [ 6 ]
A
37%
 37%  [ 9 ]
A-
16%
 16%  [ 4 ]
B+
16%
 16%  [ 4 ]
B
4%
 4%  [ 1 ]
B-
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
C+
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
C
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
C-
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
F
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
Total Votes : 24

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Stephan
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Joined: 30 Sep 2004
Posts: 303

PostPosted: Fri Feb 02, 2007 6:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fox asserted:

Quote:
Matt Murdock was ambushed by the Yazuka, still the onlookers and the passers-by could not identify the man that faught like hell, itself. Even the FBI trailed him and he slipped through their grasp. The "ghostly" quality of Daredevil had been amplified. Matt Murdock and Daredevil, synonimously became urban legend. And with that, I feel the mystique of the character was re-interpreted and re-defined.


The clash with the Yakuza was gripping and compelling, no question. In retrospect, it was Bendis' finest hour. But when criminals are able to glean and understand DDs abilities (radar sense, hypersenses, etc.) and motives, it...diminshes him, it detracts from his mystique. Matthew Michael Murdock - an extraordinarily capable, accomplished blind attorney - should also be an impenetrable, mysterious figure. For much of his life, DD was able to mystify, bewilder and confound his opponents - in both his guises. Now he can baffle them again.
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rgj
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 02, 2007 6:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

B+.


Great conclusion. Matt took Vanessa's deal but the man did it for her (penance for what he and Wilson had done to her), not for his own selfish reasons. Matt had his life back without freeing Wilson, but it was his sense of honor, duty and nobility that he help Fisk. He put Vanessa's feelings and memory over his own wishes. That is Matt Murdock. Matt stripping KP's citizenship is a nice book end to KP once stripping Matt of his liscence to practic law (you know, it that great tale by Miller).

I totally disagree with the "re-set" assertion by fox and Dave Wallace. The one reporter's question about Matt killing the FBI director makes it crystal clear that some will still be suspicious of Matt. And, Ed Brubaker is right, Matt has to be a lawyer again. That's not a re-set, that's . . . just right. Matt being a lawyer is just as important as he wearing the DD costume.

I totally disagree with Stephan about Matt mourning Karen too much. No post-Karen's death writers have come close to having Matt really mourn her. The "mental breakdown" (and, fox limbo, I think that Matt did have a bit of an episode as this is why he went over the top and declared himself the new Kingpin) didn't even come close to Matt confronting his sorrow for her loss. Brubaker was the first one to really touch upon Matt's feelings regarding Karen, and IT'S ABOUT TIME someone did it. Brubaker handled it perfectly. I loved the "Both, usually" line during Matt and Foggy's converastion. Oh, and Stephan, Karen WAS Matt's true love (harlot or not).

The reunion with Foggy did seem a bit anti-climactic and rushed (especially, because of what Matt's been through). But, that's fine. And, I'm glad that Becky has joined the team. I also hope that Dakota stays on board.

The interaction between Matt and Wilson was wonderful. Matt making Wilson understand what they had done to Vanessa gave us an glimpse to a semblance of humanity that is left in Fisk (just as Bru did with Punisher when he came to help Matt in prison). His sorrow at her gravestone was touching (and a bookend to Matt at Elektra's gravestone). Sure, I'm sure KP will be back one day, but I hope it's not by Brubaker. Too many writers play with Frank Miller's toys. I think that Bru is the kind of writer that could forge new toys for DD's sandbox. I, for one, hope that Bru cleans up DD's rogues gallery and makes them more relevant.

I literally just finished reading the story. So, I may need more time to digest this tale and read it a couple more times. But, what can I say, I'm impressed thus far.

rgj
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fox_limbo
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 02, 2007 7:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ed Brubaker wrote:

... to say that Matt being able to try to get his life back means that the things that took it away become inconsequential is flat out wrong. He was put through the wringer, he lost almost everything that mattered to him, he was thrown in jail and nearly went insane. That is consequence. That is the reason he's trying to get his life back to normal, because of what happened to him. And if what you're saying were true, then you're essentially saying that I'm also invalidating my OWN first 11 issues on the book by writing my 12th one, and I refuse to accept that. It's like saying that the splash panel of Matt and Karen holding hands at the end of Born Again invalidates the previous 100 pages of that story. Sorry, but it doesn't.


Good point.

Perhaps it is my interpretation of it, but it appeared to me that the burdon of all the events over the last few years' of continutiy had been completely lifted. The weight of being outted, his lawyer's liscense being suspended, the belief of the "death" of his closest friend. All of that appeared to be lifted straight off of Matt Murdock's shoulders. It definately appeared to be a definate climax, much like (as you pointed out, Matt and Karen holding hands at the end of "Born Again"). The Daredevil mythology appears to be shifting it's gears, for lack of a better term. That is the impression I get. If I am "wrong" with this assumption, then that mistake is mine and I take full responsibility of it.

I did not mean to lump Matt's experience in prison with everything else. You had comunicated perfectly clear that Matt's time in prison, and mingling with the prison politics, along with the realization of Matt's moral equilibrium was thrown off. That experience did leave it's mark on the character. However, with all of the other experiences (and, again, I may be wrong with this assumption), it appears Matt had been given back everything else he had lost (i.e. his friends, his law liscense), seemingly without any real consequence. You are absolutely right, Matt had been through the wringer. That is without question. But everything seems to slide back together to what it had been, the rubber band snapped back after it had been stretched to it's limits. That is how I read into it.

Despite my rambling, it really is good to see Matt have a moment of reprieve. There has been a lot on the character's shoulders, and as they say "it can't rain all the time".

In any case, thank you for taking your time to visit the message board and to discuss the issue. I, for one, certainly appreciate it.
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fox_limbo
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 02, 2007 7:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In hindsight, I suppose I have been clinging too tightly to the idea of Matt Murdock being elected into office as a District Attourney. With the storm spiraling around Matt Murdock, he has been viewed as the champion of the people. Why not completely accept the mantle? I felt Matt being D.A. was the next logical step, the next evolution of the character.

People had argued this notion before. It was pointed out that Matt couldn't be elected to that position because of his "crimes" as Daredevil. We can see, because of the doubt that has been placed in the public perception abd the fact that Matt had gotten his law liscense back, this is no longer an obsticle... and I did not see it as one from the start.

People argued that if Matt would be the D.A., and Daredevil, he would be burning the candle at both ends. My rebuttal to that is: isn't he already doing that?

The Daredevil mythology is more than about the crimson tights. It is also about Matt Murdock, as his own character (just as Spider-Man is more than the tights that is warn. The Hulk is more than a green brute).

It appears being attourney is who he is. It is his purpose, depite my hanging onto an idea of being more; I saw him being a monolithical presence, more than the "urban legend" and more than an "ordinary" attourney.

But I digress.
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Stephan
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 02, 2007 8:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

rgj wrote:
Oh, and Stephan, Karen WAS Matt's true love (harlot or not).


This thread is perhaps the most memorable in recent times! I beg to differ, rgj. Karen herself raised questions about the depth of Matt's commitment to her. She had forsaken Matt mere months before her untimely death, remember - ? Karen was of the opinion that her shameful, disreputable behavior had marred their relationship - and she was correct. Matt was infatuated with Karen when they first met. But his passion for, and attachment to, Karen Page waned and petered out. No, Matt mourns for his Father - not Karen.
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rgj
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 02, 2007 8:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Stephan wrote:
This thread is perhaps the most memorable in recent times! I beg to differ, rgj. Karen herself raised questions about the depth of Matt's commitment to her. She had forsaken Matt mere months before her untimely death, remember - ? Karen was of the opinion that her shameful, disreputable behavior had marred their relationship - and she was correct. Matt was infatuated with Karen when they first met. But his passion for, and attachment to, Karen Page waned and petered out. No, Matt mourns for his Father - not Karen.


I don't recall the particulars of Karen's role during the end of Volume 1. I know she and Matt were having a good relationship when Joe Kelly took over Kessel's run. Wasn't it Kelly that tried to pull them apart? Kelly's the same chimp of a writer that wrote the dreadful DD/Deadpool annual where he claims that Typhoid was the woman that Matt accidently pushed out the window during MWF. Stan Lee created Karen for Matt. Miller had Matt love Karen so much that he forgave the unforgivable. Chichester wrote their love (after another Karen return) as new again. And, now Burbaker writes that Matt's "fondest desire" is Karen. Look, you might not want to see the writing on the wall, but Matt will always truly love Karen. I think DD: Yellow's love letter also says it perfectly. Sure, Matt mourns his father. It's his motivation for being a hero. Relationships are always up and down. But, it's true love that helps weather the storm. Maybe Joe Kelly didn't get it. Bru obviously does. But, hey, I'll agree to diagree with you on this one.



rgj
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Stephan
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 02, 2007 9:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kelly did suggest that Matt and Karen's relationship was troubled and under a strain (Matt was suddenly captivated by the Black Widow, while Karen was enchanted with a co-worker). In fact, many DD scribes have touched upon this (Ann Nocenti comes to mind). But Kevin Smith, in particular, cast doubt upon the depth of their relationship. Karen's final words: "Matt...I lo - I'll miss you." Her words were pregnant with meaning - and though she she was at death's door, I believe she chose them carefully.
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rgj
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 02, 2007 9:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, to be fair, under Nocienti, Matt was being manipulated by Typhoid's powers. And, Kevin Smith?? Are you serious, Stephan? Kevin "freakin'" Smith!? I'm not even going to dignify that. Let's see. I give examples that include: Stan Lee, Frank Miller, Dan Chichester, Jeph Loeb and Ed Brubaker. You say, Kevin Smith??

Check please!

rgj



Even Kevin is shocked by this.


Last edited by rgj on Mon Feb 05, 2007 3:32 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Ed Brubaker
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 02, 2007 9:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Personally, I think Matt is torn up about Karen and always will be. A lot of people have that one relationship in their past that no matter what they go on to, will always haunt them in some ways, and linger in the back of their mind.

And you know, mourning isn't an exclusive thing. You can mourn the loss of every person you cared for in completely different ways.

Also -- not a single person noticed that our main subtext the first two arcs were -- Matt's hearing, in Cell Block D, and Matt's sense of smell, in Takes a Ride. I was so proud of that, so I'm pointing it out.
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Stephan
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 02, 2007 9:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Was Typhoid truly responsible for Matt's actions, rgj? Or was the Matt/Karen relationship trouble-plagued to begin with? Matt himself harbored doubts, as I recall. Typhoid made a brief appearance in the "Streets of Poison" story in Captain America. Typhoid was stunned to discover that her powers had no impact on the Captain. Is Steve Rogers (who was under the influence of a drug at the time, and should have been vulnerable) simply more steadfast than Matt Murdock, or was Matt all-too-willing to be seduced? There were rifts in the Matt/Karen relationship during the Lee era, they were estranged in the Roy Thomas era, etc., etc. The Matt/Karen relationship was ill-starred and ill-fated from the outset.
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