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The New Kingpin (SPOILERS)
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Forrest
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2007 3:34 pm    Post subject: The New Kingpin (SPOILERS) Reply with quote

Here's an interview from Bendis in which he talks pretty extensively about who will fill in the crime power vaccum that Fisk has left. (Unlike DD's "missing year," this time it sounds like Fisk will be gone for some time and this new crime lord will become very, very powerful.)

http://www.newsarama.com/marvelnew/newavengers/meet_the_new.html

Another telling quote on Fisk's future (and my favorite part of the interview):

Also, Iím sort of responsible for taking Wilson Fisk out of circulation as the Kingpin. My feeling is, for now, weíve done every 'Kingpin up in his tower' story that can possibly be done. Thatís a Frank Miller invention thatís been done to death for 30 years. Eventually we could have him come back, or have someone be a new Kingpin, but itís still the same idea, itís just someone else being Wilson Fisk.

But what really needs to be is a new idea, for this Kingpin to have a new agenda Ė a kingpin of all supervillains is a completely different scenario.


Sounds like we're not getting Fisk back as Kingpin, which is far overdo (sp?) if you ask me. AND we're not getting the Kingpin replacements we saw in the missing year (see "King of Hell's Kitchen" and "DD/Punisher"). Neat! Very Happy
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Mr Slaughter
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2007 3:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You know I never tire of that angle on The Kingpin.
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Kuljit Mithra
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2007 3:59 pm    Post subject: Re: The New Kingpin (SPOILERS) Reply with quote

Forrest wrote:
Here's an interview from Bendis in which he talks pretty extensively about who will fill in the crime power vaccum that Fisk has left. (Unlike DD's "missing year," this time it sounds like Fisk will be gone for some time and this new crime lord will become very, very powerful.)

http://www.newsarama.com/marvelnew/newavengers/meet_the_new.html

Another telling quote on Fisk's future (and my favorite part of the interview):

Also, Iím sort of responsible for taking Wilson Fisk out of circulation as the Kingpin. My feeling is, for now, weíve done every 'Kingpin up in his tower' story that can possibly be done. Thatís a Frank Miller invention thatís been done to death for 30 years. Eventually we could have him come back, or have someone be a new Kingpin, but itís still the same idea, itís just someone else being Wilson Fisk.

But what really needs to be is a new idea, for this Kingpin to have a new agenda Ė a kingpin of all supervillains is a completely different scenario.


Sounds like we're not getting Fisk back as Kingpin, which is far overdo (sp?) if you ask me. AND we're not getting the Kingpin replacements we saw in the missing year (see "King of Hell's Kitchen" and "DD/Punisher"). Neat! Very Happy


If I'm remembering this correctly, you should go look for a limited series called "The Hood" by Brian K. Vaughan from a few years back... it relates here.

Edit: Nevermind, that info is actually in the interview.
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rgj
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2007 4:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think it's halarious what Bendis said about "too many writers using Frank Miller's Kingpin." What? You mean like you did, Brian? Halarious. Look, Bendis was a good writer and all, but he acts as if he's not guilty of what he's claiming. And, you know, it was DAN CHICHESTER who did the ultimate/greatest Matt-takes-down-Kingpin story of all time (LAST RITES). And, as Bendis says that Kingpin is too overexposed in DD, I can't help but chuckle that KP was gone for a LOOOONNNGGG time before Kevin Smith gave him a cameo, Mack officially brought him back and blinded him and then Bendis did his thing. It's great that KP is going away for a while and that Burbaker (or is it Brubaker at all? Bendis makes it sound like a Marvel decision!--sorry, Bru, you write it the way we want!; how sad) can bring new villains into DD's life. I just hope, the way Bendis describes it ("a Kingpin for all supervillains") that it isn't some kind of The Tinkerer (as in Secret War, by Bendis) that is the new Kingpin.

rgj

p.s. Bendis thinks Echo is a great new creation?? I liked her better when she was Taskmaster.

rgj
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nott4141
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2007 7:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wonder if the new Kingpin will be Echo?
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Forrest
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2007 8:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

nott4141 wrote:
I wonder if the new Kingpin will be Echo?


FYI, the Bendis interview (link above) outright states who the new Kingpin will be.
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The Overlord
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2007 9:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

nott4141 wrote:
I wonder if the new Kingpin will be Echo?


Why would Echo be the Kingpin? She was motivated by the need to avenge her father, not power or money. It wouldn't make sense for her to be the new Kingpin, she is almost a hero at this point.

Frankly though I think Bendis has an interesting concept. Everytime Kingpin gets overthrown, the only thing waiting to replace him ar a bunch of nickle and dime thugs like Owl and Hammerhead who always seem way over their heads. I think its bit silly to believe that Fisk was the only criminal in all of NYC capable of creating a sucessful organized crime group.

Frankly I think the idea of a super villain mafia that Bendis hinted at. Why do super villains constantly work for non powered crime bosses instead of taking the reigns of power themsleves? I think a super villain mafia would be really scarey and a challenge to any hero.

Kingpin would always hire a villain or two to do his dirty work, but imagine a small army of villains working together to create an organized crime group. Seriously knocking over banks is not the best way to make money, I think super villains would realize that by now. So why not create a super villain mafia group, a super villain group that is run like a business. One villain would be the CEO, ensuring that things run smoothly in the organization and overseeing the big details of the group, while others would be the board of directors, lieutenants who oversee the day to day operations of different sections of NYC (Harlen, Hell's Kitchen, etc). A super villain co-op if you will.

Frankly I think this is a very interesting idea and giving Kingpin a few years of vacation will do the character some good.

Edit: Now let me clarify, I said I was interested in the concept of a super villain mafia, I have not read the Hood mini, so I cannot say if this Hood character is interesting or not or whether making him the new Kingpin is good idea or not. I don't have info on the Hood character to make that call.


Last edited by The Overlord on Wed Feb 07, 2007 11:40 pm; edited 1 time in total
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james castle
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2007 10:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Stephen are you listening? Are you out there? Cuz you don't want to miss this.

I think I've officially lost faith in Bendis. Whatever Bendis once was he's now become little more than a Marvel mouthpiece. I think the cracks started to show (for me at least) starting with the whole Ronin nonsense. That whole thing was just ridiculous. Then I read House of M (which sucked). Then Bendis goes on record about how great Echo is (hint: she sucks). Now this? rgj is 100% right. Chichester is the only person to have done Kingpin any justice since Miller. Nocenti did him justice too but she did so by writing around him for most of her run (and then supplying a kick ass moment with him just as she bowed) so it doesn't really count. And then when Chichester had the Kingpin fall he did so in such a way as it made sense. Ever since then he's been kinda limping around. If I have to read one more story about Kingpin "working his way up" again just to get knocked down in some sad way I'm going to throw up all over the place.

So yeah, when Bendis is like "hey I have a good idea, let's leave Kingpin out of it for a while" you just want to say "oh, like Nocenti did...without making a huge deal about it?".

As for this New Kingpin business. Bleech. Oh, so Bendis had a wonderful idea for a new Kingpin did he? And who did he choose? What? He choose one of BKV's creations? Well, isn't that fortunate. I mean, who is BKV? Oh he's one of the hottest creators right now? Oh, he's writing one of the best Vertigo series since Preacher (though, for my money Fables is better) and another critially acclaimed series for Wildstorm? I didn't notice. What? Runaways? He created Runaways? Well he didn't write one of the best OGNs in recent memory did he? Oh he did? Man, wow, what luck.

Any press conference proclaiming a New Kingpin is suspect from the beginning. When Bendis starts name dropping BKV the eyes begin to roll back in the head.

I think Ronin should be the new Kingpin.
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rgj
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2007 11:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just to add to what jc was saying, I'm really losing faith in Marvel.

Everything (from the Ronin crap; the Avengers disasembled and "new" and "imporved" version of the team--with Wolverine, no less!; House of M; Civil War with it's absurd premise and foundation; Thuderbolts; and now the "ramifications" of Civil Crap--with a "new" and "improved" Avengers! team--with Wolverine, no less!; and Spidey in the black suit just in time for the movie!; and, if that weren't enough, a new and improved super-juiced Kingpin--that has everyone "sh*tting in their super tights") Marvel does is just transparently gimmicky.

We have Brubaker saying how it's NOW illegal for Matt to be a vigilante (didn't james castle already explain how it was "illegal" to begin with??). And, Brubaker will be chained and constrained to the wishes of Marvel eggheads on who the new main villains (Kingpin) will be as a result to the God awful and logcially flawed story of Civil Crap. And, the villain will be chosen based on Bendis's obsession with noir/crime dramas and the heiarchy of the mafia Rolling Eyes --yeah, we get it Brian, you saw the Godfather movies too many times.

And, of course Bendis is now throwing Wilson Fisk (who does need a break from DAREDEVIL) under the bus because he is an old (30 years, did he say?), overused Miller character that needs to be replaced with some superpowerd guy--and Bendis is smuggly taking credit for this. Funny how Bendis still uses Elektra. Isn't she an old, overused Miller character too?

Anwyay, I'm a little worried about the future of Marvel as it pertains to holding my interest. I've already dropped all the Spiedy mags, 'cause of Civil War. And, now it looks like DD is going to be affected, I just hope Bru continues to write good tales despite the ideas that are being dictated to him. I guess we'll see what happens.

Seriously, ever go to the comic shop and hear a gaggle of 13 year old comic geeks talking how they would change stuff if they were in charge at Marvel?? I think those guys grew up.

rgj
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The Overlord
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2007 11:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Now to be fair this Hood storyline is taking place in the New Avengers, Brubaker might just ignore it and decide to do his own thing in the DD title. I think Brubaker deserves a little faith after the great DD stories he has delivered so far, I believe he will deliver great DD stories whether they deal with Civil war or the Hood or not deal with ideas at all.

I still think Kingpin is overexposed in recent years (that is Bendis' fault, ironically) and he a needs take a vacation for a few years in order to avoid becomming stale. Seriously Fisk is going to rebuild his empire for a third time? What if DD overthrows him again? How many times can same guy rebuild a criminal empire only to be overthrown. I don't see what the problem is with Brubaker giving Kingpin a time out so he can develop his own villains, try to make his individual mark on the title rather recycling the same stories and characters every DD writer for the past 20 years has been using.

Remember Kingpin and Bullseye were kinda lame before Miller revamped them, why not let Brubaker try and revamp some other villains?
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