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Francesco
Underboss
Joined: 08 Jun 2006
Posts: 1307
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 Posted: Tue Jul 08, 2008 6:26 am Post subject: |
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| rgj wrote: |
But, a writer could be creative. We don't have to have an entire first part of the movie showing little Matt. They could incorporate an origin in say, Ben Urich's investigation of Matt Murdock being DD. You can have all these investigative flash back snippets during Urich's research. |
That's a neat idea.
A big problem of the Iron Man movie was just that. The origin took up a large part of the movie. |
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rgj
Hardcore
Joined: 29 Jul 2004
Posts: 1580
Location: The Rio Grande Valley of Texas
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| Posted: Tue Jul 08, 2008 8:30 pm Post subject: |
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| jumonji wrote: | | One thing I find somewhat disappointing with the movie is that it pays homage to lots of different moments and storylines in the comic without really being about any of them. What I mean is that it looks like parts of the Elektra saga on the surface, without actually retelling that story at all. |
I totally disagree. Looks like TES on the surface? If you mean that one little scene where Bulls produces a playing card and cuts her throat with it, says his famous Miller line, and then impales her with her sai? If that's what you mean by "on the surface," I guess you are right.
MSJ's movie was nothing like TES (not that I'm saying that is the reason the movie blew--believe me, I think the movie sucked for so many other reasons). In fact, the movie was closer to PARTS OF A HOLE, but substituting Elektra for Echo.
| Quote: | | I often find myself being insanely grateful that the fans aren't writing the book. Because what you get is a "wouldn't it be cool to do x, y, and z...?" |
I don't think there is anything wrong with fans wanting some elements (if not storylines) of the comics to be in the film. Look at SIN CITY, that worked out okay. It can't be worse than MSJ saying "hey, those flamming double D's are going to look cool on screen when Ben Urich turns them ablaze!. For instance, I've always thought that one of the greatest opening scenes for a first DD movie would be from Miller's Child's Play. To have the openning scene be of an elementary school girl throwing herself out the window in a drug fit would have been powerful. Something like this would have been cool, not because of some fanboy "Look!, it's like the comic!," but rather because of the tone it would set for this "comic book" movie. What better way to divorce yourself of the colorful and almost comical "violence" of the Spiderman movies. What better way to say, Daredevil's world is different. Here's a homage (or as jumonji says a "wouldn't it be cool . . .") to the film that sets a real tone and feel for the film you are about to see.
As far as you believing that MSJ is a true DD fan. Look, he said the EXACT same thing about Ghost Rider (another film ripped by critics), for heaven's sake.
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jumonji
Guardian Devil
Joined: 23 Sep 2007
Posts: 636
Location: Too close to the Arctic circle
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| Posted: Tue Jul 08, 2008 11:04 pm Post subject: |
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| rgj wrote: | | jumonji wrote: | | One thing I find somewhat disappointing with the movie is that it pays homage to lots of different moments and storylines in the comic without really being about any of them. What I mean is that it looks like parts of the Elektra saga on the surface, without actually retelling that story at all. |
I totally disagree. Looks like TES on the surface? If you mean that one little scene where Bulls produces a playing card and cuts her throat with it, says his famous Miller line, and then impales her with her sai? If that's what you mean by "on the surface," I guess you are right. |
Actually, that was exactly what I meant. Like copying that scene, but essentially not having it be the same scene because it's not the same story And other scenes as well, though that's the most obvious example. You take elements here and there, shake, then pour. Voilá!
| rgj wrote: | | In fact, the movie was closer to PARTS OF A HOLE, but substituting Elektra for Echo. |
Agreed. I just said it wasn't the Elektra Saga.
| rgj wrote: | | Quote: | | I often find myself being insanely grateful that the fans aren't writing the book. Because what you get is a "wouldn't it be cool to do x, y, and z...?" |
I don't think there is anything wrong with fans wanting some elements (if not storylines) of the comics to be in the film. |
Of course not. I'm sure everyone who hangs out here could think of things that would be cool in a movie and would look good in a movie. I think the problem is where you stay at the level of being a fanboy and not going beyond that to be a really good storyteller. Even though I feel differently about the movie than you do, I'm essentially bringing up things I felt didn't work about it. Considering the number of flaws I find, I'm actually quite surprised I like it at all anymore (it was different before I was so heavily into the comic).
| rgj wrote: | | What better way to say, Daredevil's world is different. Here's a homage (or as jumonji says a "wouldn't it be cool . . .") to the film that sets a real tone and feel for the film you are about to see. |
I'm actually quite capable of using the word homage, and prefer it myself. I was doing a poor (teenage) fanboy impression. 
| rgj wrote: | | As far as you believing that MSJ is a true DD fan. Look, he said the EXACT same thing about Ghost Rider (another film ripped by critics), for heaven's sake. |
How do you measure a true fan? And can you not be a fan of more than one comic book character? I believe that you can be a fan and totally blow it anyway. I saw the Ghost Rider movie and fell asleep after the first half because I thought it was terrible. I thought the theatrical release of DD was a butchered version of a flawed movie that I still like in spite of itself (though I do mentally divorce it from the comic to a great extent). Neither movie disproves that MSJ is a fan of either of these characters, just that something obviously happened along the way that prevented their success.
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rgj
Hardcore
Joined: 29 Jul 2004
Posts: 1580
Location: The Rio Grande Valley of Texas
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| Posted: Tue Jul 08, 2008 11:37 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Actually, that was exactly what I meant. Like copying that scene, but essentially not having it be the same scene because it's not the same story And other scenes as well, though that's the most obvious example |
Actually, that ONE scene is the only thing I recognized from the mythos. That's the only homage I recognized.
| Quote: | | Neither movie disproves that MSJ is a fan of either of these characters, just that something obviously happened along the way that prevented their success. |
True. But, judging by the final product, I got the feeling he hardly knew the fundamentals of the character and mythology, something a "true" fan would know. MSJ said he was a fan of the book while promoting the movie. Sounds like good practice for someone trying to sell something, you know, "use my product, I do." The sum of the things he got wrong and miscarachterized was astounding to me (unless, of course, he felt "his version" of DD was better than 40 years of mythology). There is something to be said for keeping true to "the spirit" of the mythology and character, like Christopher Nolan or Robert Rodriguez.
Regardless, this is why I think he's lying when he said he was a "fan."
Can I prove it? Nah. I'll let his work speak for itself.
OT: By the way, Dark Knight looks to be amazing. Preliminary reviews (RottenTomatoes) are all positive, some even calling it a "masterpiece." Of course, we must all judge for ourselves, and I can't wait to do so.
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james castle
Devil in Cell-Block D
Joined: 30 Jul 2004
Posts: 1999
Location: Toronto, Ontario
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| Posted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 8:58 am Post subject: |
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I have a hard time believing MSJ was or is a fan of the DD comics. As rgj says, MSJ just missed way too many fundimental things about the characters. Surely were a real fan on set he'd be saying things like "should the Kingpin really be laughing and smiling this much?" or "what's wrong with the original origin story?". The thing that gets me is that any time a superhero movie comes out absolutely everyone involved says one of two things. They either say:
1. "I've always been a fan of [whatever character they're playing]".
2. "As soon as I got the job I read every issue of [comic the movie is based on]".
Everytime. And people say the number 1 option way, way too much. It just isn't possible that this many fans of obscure characters are getting cast in these things. I'm skeptical.
As for "we don't need another movie" my point was just that, as far as I can tell, movies are on the way out (well, they'll never go away obviously but they're becoming less important as a thing). For me they're, like, forth in terms of pop culture mediums I care about. Fifth if you count music. Why does everyone want Hollywood to crap on their favorite comic character?
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JC
So why can't you see the funny side?
Why aren't you laughing? |
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MarcWagz
Flying Blind
Joined: 16 Jan 2008
Posts: 83
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| Posted: Sat Aug 16, 2008 6:26 am Post subject: |
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| james castle wrote: | Well, maybe after a number of years (like, 5-10 from now) they could try again. Dunno why they would though. There are tonnes of Marvel characters. Like it or not DD is a b-lister. The fact that they tried to make a DD movie at all is astounding. If they took another shot at it I'd be amazed.
As for rgj's response to me...I dunno. See, even though you're just throwing ideas out there, to me the movie you're describing is still pretty close to the 2003 one. Sure Elektra could be scrapped and maybe the Ben angle would be different and, again, you and I would notice all these things. The average person? Not so much.
My point is that to redo it I feel like there'd have to be something new. A new direction that would justify trying it again. What you're decribing is a movie with the same basic direction as the first one...only good. I think that boat has sailed. |
what you said would be incredibly easy to do for a good director and good production team.
1. Fix the radar, it shouldnt be a freakin echoloctation system. and it should not be in first person.
2. Put a focus on the martial arts side of DD, sort of like what Batman Begins changed from the first Batman.
3. Make a philosophical theme for the movie
follow those 3 steps and the movie could be amazing. /( |
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