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Random Vol 2 (Bendis) musings
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jumonji
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Joined: 23 Sep 2007
Posts: 636
Location: Too close to the Arctic circle

PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2007 10:28 am    Post subject: Random Vol 2 (Bendis) musings Reply with quote

Since I've been in bed with a nasty cold all weekend (poor me, I know *cough*) I decided to reread some Vol 2 HCs and TPBs. While I've obviously read all this stuff before (as has everyone else on this board, presumably) and I know most of this has been covered in other threads, I just thought I'd toss some random thoughts around. Besides, this message board has been a little sleepy lately, so what the heck.

1) Humorous observation: Where the heck did the Night Nurse get that "rack"? She looks like she's about to tip over. Wink

2) The art: I love Michael Lark's art (I really do), but Alex Maleev's Matt almost turns me on. Okay, can't believe I said that "out loud." Embarassed

3) The whole thing with the obstruction of justice charge: To me, The Murdock Papers is full of weird iffyness (which I know others have touched on too). One of the weirdest things is how you can arrest someone on conspiracy to obstruct justice, or whatever they heck they call it, when there is absolutely no proof at all that neither Matt, Elektra nor Natasha had any intention of entering the building where the supposed Murdock Papers were being kept. They are going on about how he "took the bait" when he was never even in the building! Okay, I know this was just some stupid thing they came up with to put him away, but that's still a weird way to do it. This suddenly reminds me... Who was it (in some thread on this board) who suggested they slap him with an "illegal use of a white cane" charge? Hmm... Cool

4) What's up with the timeline?: Okay, so DD has been around for almost 45 years, which would make him close to 70 years old. Of course, characters in comic books don't really age much since everything seems to happen in the present, whenever that happens to be, otherwise we'd be getting comics like Spider-man - The Golden Years. I don't know what age Matt is supposed to be, mid-thirties or something? So what's up with the Golden Age arc where that Bont guy tried to hire Nelson & Murdock twenty years ago (or even longer ago, judging from the look of the cars). To me, it just kind of screws with the illusion of "comic book time."

5) The whole senses thing: Okay, here I know I'm beating a dead horse, but I'll beat it again, just to make sure it's dead. While I didn't mind the whole reimagining the radar sense, in theory (quite the opposite, actually), the execution doesn't work for me. I mean, the traditional radar sense has three obvious advantages over natural sight: a 360 degree "visual" field, the ability to "see" through walls, and its extreme sensitivity to movement which I guess partly explains the whole dodging bullets thing (the other part of the equation being those super fast reflexes). In order for the latter to work, the signal can't be based on sound since bullets move faster than sound. Where the radar sense comes up short (aside from lack of light/color information) is in the resolution/acuity department; the good ol' MUH assessment that he can barely make out a flag pole at 80 feet actually translates into worse than 20/200 "vision" (which I guess means that the "illegal use of a white cane" thing won't stick, since that's below the legal blindness limit). On the other hand, he obviously has excellent depth perception, and those other super-nifty senses, so he doesn't need to "see" any better than that.

Okay, getting back to my point, it seems to me that the whole reinvented radar kind of took this whole set-up and turned it upside down. I know lots of people reacted to the whole thing in The Murdock Papers where suddenly the FBI knows how to get past his "radar," but it still really bugged me when I read it again. I'm not saying he can't be shot, he most obviously can (he's human, he can get distracted or there can be too many bullets at once), but with the traditional radar sense it shouldn't have mattered much whether he could hear the shots being fired or not since he would feel the bullet approaching as it got closer. So the whole motion detection thing seemed to be gone. On the other hand, he can suddenly use his "radar" to figure out the texture of Milla's hair when she shows up in his office. Now, how did he do that exactly? Did it smell shiny or something?Wink

Okay, that's enough venting. Despite what this might sound like, I actually enjoyed Bendis's run a lot, but there were definitely some weird moments and it still bugs me that the word is more or less out on how his senses work. Sorry for the long post... Wink
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Gloria
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2007 1:12 pm    Post subject: Re: Random Vol 2 (Bendis) musings Reply with quote

jumonji wrote:

4) What's up with the timeline?: Okay, so DD has been around for almost 45 years, which would make him close to 70 years old. Of course, characters in comic books don't really age much since everything seems to happen in the present, whenever that happens to be, otherwise we'd be getting comics like Spider-man - The Golden Years. I don't know what age Matt is supposed to be, mid-thirties or something? So what's up with the Golden Age arc where that Bont guy tried to hire Nelson & Murdock twenty years ago (or even longer ago, judging from the look of the cars). To me, it just kind of screws with the illusion of "comic book time."


Mmhh! yes, I got an "Iffy" moment myself when reading the "golden age" story... Mind you, I enyoyed it, and the art by Maalev was brilliant (I loved the use of Black & White, old comic halftone colour and modern coloring to represent the different eras). But there are, not one, but several continuity goofs!:

1) As you pointed, old man Bont has been ageing since world War Two and then the seventies, but Matt barely seems ten years older... "comic-book time" just for Matt and not for the bad guy? hum...

2) Daredevil had not teamed up with Spidey in his Yellow costume era. In fact, they met -and clashed- when Matt was wearing his new red suit, so any DD-Spidey team-up should be post-yellow uniform era. I'm not aware of the details of White Tiger's backstory, but I think that he was introduced in the MU when Matt had been clad in red for quite a number of years...

3) The origins of Gladiator: maybe Bendis thought that his origins were too cheesy, so he decided to give him a new one? Maybe it is that. In the original DD story, Melvin Potter is a fancy-costume taylor and seller, not the henchman of a mobster. He dislikes superheroes. Then one day Foggy comes to his store to rent a Daredevil suit: Karen has been lead to believe that Foggy is Daredevil, so Foggy, to impress her, decides to maintain the illusion. Potter suggests to his unsuspecting costumer to dress himself like a superbaddie and stage a fight, to awe the girl even more. Foggy is not aware that Potter's real intentions are to "vanquish" a superhero in public, to prove his point that heroes are but a bunch of over-publicised sissies

OK, I know, goofy origins Laughing, but still, having Gladdy working for Bont in a period after his incarceration (i.e. Red DD suit period) would still be reasonably respectful with previous continuity. having DD in yellow uniform is NOT.

Dammit, Brubaker is able to pull fine stories without jumping previous continuitties: he even got Mike Murdock back, LOL
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Gloria
Devuélveme el rosario de mi madre y quédate con todo lo demás

"Para la cuesta arriba quiero mi burro, que la cuesta abajo yo me la subo"
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jumonji
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2007 1:26 pm    Post subject: Re: Random Vol 2 (Bendis) musings Reply with quote

Gloria wrote:
Dammit, Brubaker is able to pull fine stories without jumping previous continuitties: he even got Mike Murdock back, LOL


Couldn't agree more, and I loved how he used the name Mike Murdock (although the original storyline comes off as a little, ahem, schizophrenic Smile). You can tell that Brubaker has really done his homework.
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Francesco
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2007 1:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
2) Daredevil had not teamed up with Spidey in his Yellow costume era. In fact, they met -and clashed- when Matt was wearing his new red suit, so any DD-Spidey team-up should be post-yellow uniform era.


Gloria, Gloria. That could cost you your DD fan license...

http://www.spiderfan.org/comics/reviews/spiderman_amazing/016.html
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Gloria
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2007 2:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My Spiderman license maybe... But the DD one? Can we really call the events in "Amazing Spider-Man #16" as a real team-up? More like they happened to be in the same place at the same time and things happened: when they later meet, Spidey is far from friendly with old hornhead, he even threatens to throw him from a window (well, he threatens to throe Foggy, but then he thinks Foggy is DD).

It is only from this story onwards that DD and Spidey begin to be actually friendly.

(Mmmh... Anyway, I hope the DD licensers don't fine me!)
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Gloria
Devuélveme el rosario de mi madre y quédate con todo lo demás

"Para la cuesta arriba quiero mi burro, que la cuesta abajo yo me la subo"
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Francesco
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2007 2:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gloria wrote:
Spidey is far from friendly with old hornhead, he even threatens to throw him from a window (well, he threatens to throe Foggy, but then he thinks Foggy is DD).


He had been attacked repeatedly by DD - as far as he knew - with no reason. Give him a break.

Quote:

It is only from this story onwards that DD and Spidey begin to be actually friendly.


yeah, yeah... Smile
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Gloria
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2007 2:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Uh-oh, seems I'll have me license revoked Wink
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Gloria
Devuélveme el rosario de mi madre y quédate con todo lo demás

"Para la cuesta arriba quiero mi burro, que la cuesta abajo yo me la subo"
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jumonji
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2007 2:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gloria wrote:
Uh-oh, seems I'll have me license revoked Wink


Yeah, where do you get one of those licenses anyway? Wink
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Gloria
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2007 2:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh, it's a bit like a driving license. A bit hard to get.

First, you have to pass an exam about DD story, theory of sensory perception, Tort Law and whatnot.

Then comes the practical exam, where you have to demonstrate ninja skills, Tell a cheapo wine from a excellent vintage by the smell, texture and taste of it, and be able to swing around the city blindfold with a billy club without bumping against buildings.

Just kidding... But it would be fun, wouldn't it? Razz
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Gloria
Devuélveme el rosario de mi madre y quédate con todo lo demás

"Para la cuesta arriba quiero mi burro, que la cuesta abajo yo me la subo"
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jumonji
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2007 2:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gloria wrote:
Oh, it's a bit like a driving license. A bit hard to get.

First, you have to pass an exam about DD story, theory of sensory perception, Tort Law and whatnot.

Then comes the practical exam, where you have to demonstrate ninja skills, Tell a cheapo wine from a excellent vintage by the smell, texture and taste of it, and be able to swing around the city blindfold with a billy club without bumping against buildings.

Just kidding... But it would be fun, wouldn't it? Razz


Would one get to actually drink any of that expensive wine or would you spit it out like at a regular wine tasting? Don't have any ninja skills, but went to three judo classes whan I was eleven. Does that count? Wink I might do okay in the theory of sensory perception (I have a Master's degree in biotech engineering). I could, for example, explain why DD could have a heightened sense of touch without a heightened sense of pain (although I suppose he experienced pain in the beginning). Cool
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Francesco
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2007 4:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jumonji wrote:
Gloria wrote:
Uh-oh, seems I'll have me license revoked Wink


Yeah, where do you get one of those licenses anyway? Wink


Here, take Gloria's.
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jumonji
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2007 4:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Francesco wrote:
jumonji wrote:
Gloria wrote:
Uh-oh, seems I'll have me license revoked Wink


Yeah, where do you get one of those licenses anyway? Wink


Here, take Gloria's.


Nah, I can't do that. She's been working on hers much longer than I have. Here's an idea, though. Why don't we award Gloria an honorary Foggy Nelson license? Wink
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Francesco
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2007 4:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Because it's the other way around: Gloria awards the Foggy Nelson license to those who deserve it.Smile
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Gloria
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2007 4:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jumonji wrote:
Why don't we award Gloria an honorary Foggy Nelson license? Wink

Mmmh... What would this licence entitle me to? Just to have a cup of coffee with Franklin? Or shall it be, hum... a "License to Kill" à la 007's?

Anyway, I'd sign at any of the options Razz
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Gloria
Devuélveme el rosario de mi madre y quédate con todo lo demás

"Para la cuesta arriba quiero mi burro, que la cuesta abajo yo me la subo"
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Francesco
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2007 1:04 pm    Post subject: Re: Random Vol 2 (Bendis) musings Reply with quote

jumonji wrote:
Besides, this message board has been a little sleepy lately, so what the heck.


Hey, it's not my fault if you guys play "the stupendous" when you read my name in the chat room (with the exclusion of Kuljit and C)

Quote:
1) Humorous observation: Where the heck did the Night Nurse get that "rack"? She looks like she's about to tip over. Wink


Though I like her first appearence more than the subsequent, in the last storyarc (she looked weird in it).

Quote:
3) The whole thing with the obstruction of justice charge


Well, after that, we are told that Matt was arrested by the FBI with numerous charges all related to being Daredevil, and all previous to the events in that storyarc. The whole point of the Murdock Papers affair by Fisk was "to lure DD in a specific place with a bait of some sort so that the FBI could capture him", and not "to give the FBI an excuse to capture DD".

Quote:

4) What's up with the timeline?


Keep in mind that Bont reveals to be 93 years old. If we assume that Matt is really young in those flashbacks, I think that the comic book time can be assumed both for him and Bont.

Quote:
I'm not saying he can't be shot, he most obviously can (he's human, he can get distracted or there can be too many bullets at once), but with the traditional radar sense it shouldn't have mattered much whether he could hear the shots being fired or not since he would feel the bullet approaching as it got closer.


I had a similar doubt some time ago, I even opened a topic about it. In the end I was convinced that there were a number of reasons why that couldn't happen. DD can dodge bullets because of his good reflexes (which work on 360°) AND because he can detect the exact moment when the trigger is being pulled and the position of the barrel for each shot fired (allowing predict the single trajectories).
In the case of Paladin's sniper shot, DD wasn't aware that he was being shot, because Paladin was too far. As soon as the bullet enetered in the radar's range, it was to late for him to react (bullets travel faster than the speed of sound). And this, still, assuming that it was a bullet, and not a laser beam or something even more sophisticated (like the Night Nurse pointed out to Elektra). Throw also in the mix the fact that hornhead was exhausted/shaken after the battle with Bullseye and the picture of him getting shot gets pretty much coherent.
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