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Daredevil Message Board
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The Message Board is currently in read-only mode, as the software is now out of date. Several features and pages have been removed. If/When I get time I intend to re-launch the board with updated software.
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vtsoxfan7
Playing to the Camera
Joined: 31 Jan 2006
Posts: 182
Location: The 'noke, VA
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 Posted: Sun Sep 07, 2008 8:25 am Post subject: |
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| Gloria wrote: |
Oh, and Dakota/Matt? Puh-leez! Must every female in the series fall for him? That would be not very original, and would doom Dakota to die in whatever future story "Allen Smithee" might write in Daredevil, in which Dakota would be gratuitously killed in a (very poor) story, just to have Matt angsting and clenching his teeth in a couple of pannels.
I'd vote for a Dakota/Foggy instead, anytime... Have you noticed that both have a solid sense of humour? And she's a clever enough woman to know that there's more to a man than the mere appearance.
(Yes, I'm biased here, haw, haw) |
I completely agree with your statement about a possible Dakota/Matt relationship. I was tossing Dakota out there as a favorite female character who does not have romantic ties to our favorite leading character. I really hope that she continues as someone who can drop the tough love on Matt without blinking an eye.
My introduction to Karen Page was Born Again. I've always felt she was used well in the newer stories that I have read (including Guardian Devil) BUT that may only be because I haven't read about 2/3 of volume one and have not become 'attached' to the character as many others obviously have. As a result at this point in time I can't put her at the top of this list.
Slightly off topic - they need to release more DD Essentials. It's been a while since Vol. 4 was released and those are the easiest most economic way for some of us to read through the early stuff.
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'So I've got THAT going for me...which is nice' - Bill Murray, Caddyshack |
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Kirika
Flying Blind
Joined: 05 Sep 2008
Posts: 57
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| Posted: Sun Sep 07, 2008 10:14 am Post subject: |
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| james castle wrote: | | I don't think I get your point. Could you be a little more vague? How about throwing in a couple more cliches? "There was just something about her that just never worked for me as a character". Hahahaha. |
She just didn't! I could never see her as anything other than Matt's lovestruck, annoying, helpless, weak willed secretary. She was just a huge drain on Matt. I honestly think the letter in the start of the Kevin Smith run was spot on with how their relationship went. Sorry to be vague but I didn't want to be TOO insulting to anyone who really loved the character. I've read most of but not all of volume one and all of her short stay in volume 2. I haven't seen anything about her that I thought was redeeming.
I know that a lot of people love her. My best friend argues the case for Karen better than anyone I know. I guess it is more or less a personal opinion. I like Matt better with women who are on his level. I guess that is why I adore Natasha, and to a lesser extent Echo. (I love Elektra the most when she's solo.)
Am I still being to vague, Mr. Castle?
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jumonji
Guardian Devil
Joined: 23 Sep 2007
Posts: 636
Location: Too close to the Arctic circle
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| Posted: Sun Sep 07, 2008 10:35 am Post subject: |
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| Kirika wrote: | | james castle wrote: | | I don't think I get your point. Could you be a little more vague? How about throwing in a couple more cliches? "There was just something about her that just never worked for me as a character". Hahahaha. |
She just didn't! I could never see her as anything other than Matt's lovestruck, annoying, helpless, weak willed secretary. She was just a huge drain on Matt. I honestly think the letter in the start of the Kevin Smith run was spot on with how their relationship went. Sorry to be vague but I didn't want to be TOO insulting to anyone who really loved the character. I've read most of but not all of volume one and all of her short stay in volume 2. I haven't seen anything about her that I thought was redeeming.
I know that a lot of people love her. My best friend argues the case for Karen better than anyone I know. I guess it is more or less a personal opinion. I like Matt better with women who are on his level. I guess that is why I adore Natasha, and to a lesser extent Echo. (I love Elektra the most when she's solo.)
Am I still being to vague, Mr. Castle?
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Never mind him. We went several days on this board without sarcastic attacks on other people's opinions. I guess it had to end at some point.
I personally disagree with you, but I see where you're coming from and you are perfectly entitled to your opinion. Keep posting!
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The Other Murdock Papers |
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Gloria
Redemption
Joined: 28 Apr 2007
Posts: 711
Location: Suburbia around Barcelona
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| Posted: Sun Sep 07, 2008 10:43 am Post subject: |
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| jumonji wrote: | | But I don't really agree with Gloria that the women he dates need to be in the damsel in distress category. |
To be honest, I don't agree with that myself...if only the writers thought otherwise!
| vtsoxfan7 wrote: | | I completely agree with your statement about a possible Dakota/Matt relationship. I was tossing Dakota out there as a favorite female character who does not have romantic ties to our favorite leading character. I really hope that she continues as someone who can drop the tough love on Matt without blinking an eye. |
Yes, in fact I believe that Dakota would work better as a trusted friend and colleague of Matt, than in a girlfriend role. I have no doubt that Dakota is fond of Matt, but no more than Foggy is... And remaining in the loyal allied status allows her to keep a clean look of things that a lover would be blind to.
| vtsoxfan7 wrote: | | My introduction to Karen Page was Born Again. I've always felt she was used well in the newer stories that I have read (including Guardian Devil) BUT that may only be because I haven't read about 2/3 of volume one and have not become 'attached' to the character as many others obviously have. As a result at this point in time I can't put her at the top of this list. |
To say the truth, my attachment to her began thanks to Born Again, and the way she was developed afterwards... In fact, I agree with Kirika that, prior to "Born Again" (tough as it was to see her as a junkie, but then, what a splendid reconstruction from the bottom up she had!) Karen seemed -most of the time- to be around just to sigh over Matt or be saved by Daredevil (and of course to have poor Foggy pining after her without hope)
I like Natasha, but the fact that she had a strong personality from the beginning has kept her from evolving (not that I mind: she's quite good as she is). Karen on the contrary, grew from a bland character to a woman who had been through a lot and yet she was able to keep going ahead, a woman who was able to say "No" to Matt, and live on her own, if necessary. A nice touch of Kesel in his run was "Razor" Sharpe's sympathy to her: she recognized in Karen another fighter.
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Gloria
Devuélveme el rosario de mi madre y quédate con todo lo demás
"Para la cuesta arriba quiero mi burro, que la cuesta abajo yo me la subo" |
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james castle
Devil in Cell-Block D
Joined: 30 Jul 2004
Posts: 1999
Location: Toronto, Ontario
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| Posted: Sun Sep 07, 2008 12:19 pm Post subject: |
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| Kirika wrote: | | james castle wrote: | | I don't think I get your point. Could you be a little more vague? How about throwing in a couple more cliches? "There was just something about her that just never worked for me as a character". Hahahaha. |
She just didn't! I could never see her as anything other than Matt's lovestruck, annoying, helpless, weak willed secretary. |
Wait, what? How long was she even his secretary for? I guess during the early days (wherein DD was also flying to space on rockets now and again) but she went off to be an actor before Miller showed up. And then Miller did his thing. And then Nocenti did her thing. Karen left Matt when she found out about the cheating. Then she came back as an anti-porn crusader, then became a DJ.
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She was just a huge drain on Matt. I honestly think the letter in the start of the Kevin Smith run was spot on with how their relationship went.
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Hahaha. The best part is that that letter is all vague garbage. "I love you Matt. I just don't know if I love the love that love loves". You think that was "spot on"? It undoes massive parts of Born Again and reads like it was written by the boys in Linken Park when they were actual whiney teens.
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Sorry to be vague but I didn't want to be TOO insulting to anyone who really loved the character. I've read most of but not all of volume one and all of her short stay in volume 2. I haven't seen anything about her that I thought was redeeming.
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You obviously haven't read much volume one.
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I know that a lot of people love her. My best friend argues the case for Karen better than anyone I know. I guess it is more or less a personal opinion. I like Matt better with women who are on his level. I guess that is why I adore Natasha, and to a lesser extent Echo. (I love Elektra the most when she's solo.)
Am I still being to vague, Mr. Castle?
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Yes. Yes you are.
_________________
JC
So why can't you see the funny side?
Why aren't you laughing? |
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james castle
Devil in Cell-Block D
Joined: 30 Jul 2004
Posts: 1999
Location: Toronto, Ontario
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| Posted: Sun Sep 07, 2008 12:23 pm Post subject: |
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| jumonji wrote: |
Never mind him. We went several days on this board without sarcastic attacks on other people's opinions. I guess it had to end at some point.
I personally disagree with you, but I see where you're coming from and you are perfectly entitled to your opinion. Keep posting! |
Actually, never mind her. About 50% of jumonji's posts are about posts and posting and the board as opposed to the actual subject at hand. It's her super special way of cluttering the board with meaningless posts and we love her for it.
_________________
JC
So why can't you see the funny side?
Why aren't you laughing? |
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Francesco
Underboss
Joined: 08 Jun 2006
Posts: 1307
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| Posted: Sun Sep 07, 2008 12:42 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | I know this might get me a few flames on here, but I was actually glad to see them kill off Karen Page. To me, she was just a broken record. There was just something about her that just never worked for me as a character. |
That's debatable, anyway it is clear you didn't like the character. I'm okay with that, but killing the character because of it?
Is it the solution to "a character that sounds like a broken record"? It's not. The solution would be to be more creative when writing the character. Or, if this isn't really possible, to temporarily have the character out of the scene.
Problem is, Smith killed her off as a cheap attempt to boost sales. It doesn't have anything to do with the character, in itself.
| Quote: | | She just didn't! I could never see her as anything other than Matt's lovestruck, annoying, helpless, weak willed secretary. |
That's very inaccurate. It holds true only for the very early issues of volume 1. |
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harryhausen
Playing to the Camera
Joined: 20 Apr 2007
Posts: 129
Location: U$A
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| Posted: Sun Sep 07, 2008 3:41 pm Post subject: |
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Yeah, Kevin Smith stinks. I don't even own his crappy reboot. One of the only holes in the DD run - and one I'll never seek to fill............
Uh, gang, what's wrong with you all? The only woman for Matt was, is, and could be (again and again)......
ELEKTRA! |
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Darediva
Wake Up
Joined: 29 Jul 2004
Posts: 1208
Location: Hell's Kitchen South, Arkansas, USA
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| Posted: Sun Sep 07, 2008 4:29 pm Post subject: |
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I see you've gotten JC's brand of welcome to the board, Kirika.
Milla happens to hold a high position in my hierarchy of Matt's women. I felt like she could have been written as a stronger character by Bendis, and I did like the one shot by Brubaker that filled in some of the gaps in her life before Matt.
Karen Page was hard to take in the early days, but then so was Matt with his alterego Mike. She came to fruition with Miller. Killing her off was a cheap shot, but it was done, so I move on.
Elektra just went polar opposite on Matt, so I don't see that as a real romantic possibility for a long run.
Natasha? Well, they are hot together. As long as Matt treats her as an equal, not like he did out in San Francisco, they've got chemistry.
Perhaps I should state opinions fit fine, frankly, JC.
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Alice
Those who throw dirt merely lose ground. |
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Mandrill
Flying Blind
Joined: 21 Aug 2008
Posts: 9
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| Posted: Sun Sep 07, 2008 8:24 pm Post subject: |
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I always lean toward Typhoid Mary. As someone else stated, I almost want to say Ms. O'Breen but only because she realized she needed a good man and turned to Foggy.
I must also say that I'm in the small minority that was pretty pleased that Karen Page got offed. I think KS did it in poor fashion, but I never liked Karen Page. I thought she was integral and amazing in BA but beyond that she just got blah.
That said, I understand when people disagree. We're all entitled to our own thoughts. |
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Mandrill
Flying Blind
Joined: 21 Aug 2008
Posts: 9
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| Posted: Sun Sep 07, 2008 8:25 pm Post subject: |
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| james castle wrote: | | jumonji wrote: |
Never mind him. We went several days on this board without sarcastic attacks on other people's opinions. I guess it had to end at some point.
I personally disagree with you, but I see where you're coming from and you are perfectly entitled to your opinion. Keep posting! |
Actually, never mind her. About 50% of jumonji's posts are about posts and posting and the board as opposed to the actual subject at hand. It's her super special way of cluttering the board with meaningless posts and we love her for it. |
Isn't making a post to point out that other people make posts just to comment about posts somewhat hypocritical? |
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james castle
Devil in Cell-Block D
Joined: 30 Jul 2004
Posts: 1999
Location: Toronto, Ontario
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| Posted: Sun Sep 07, 2008 11:00 pm Post subject: |
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| Mandrill wrote: | | james castle wrote: | | jumonji wrote: |
Never mind him. We went several days on this board without sarcastic attacks on other people's opinions. I guess it had to end at some point.
I personally disagree with you, but I see where you're coming from and you are perfectly entitled to your opinion. Keep posting! |
Actually, never mind her. About 50% of jumonji's posts are about posts and posting and the board as opposed to the actual subject at hand. It's her super special way of cluttering the board with meaningless posts and we love her for it. |
Isn't making a post to point out that other people make posts just to comment about posts somewhat hypocritical? |
Yes. Yes it is. But I was hoping no one would catch that. Damn you Mandrill!!!!!!
_________________
JC
So why can't you see the funny side?
Why aren't you laughing? |
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Francesco
Underboss
Joined: 08 Jun 2006
Posts: 1307
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| Posted: Mon Sep 08, 2008 3:13 am Post subject: |
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| People, don't let him confuse you. He's using simian pheromones. |
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Kirika
Flying Blind
Joined: 05 Sep 2008
Posts: 57
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| Posted: Mon Sep 08, 2008 1:30 pm Post subject: |
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| Mandrill wrote: | | I must also say that I'm in the small minority that was pretty pleased that Karen Page got offed. I think KS did it in poor fashion, but I never liked Karen Page. I thought she was integral and amazing in BA but beyond that she just got blah. |
Thank you! I knew that there had to be more of us out there. |
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Mandrill
Flying Blind
Joined: 21 Aug 2008
Posts: 9
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| Posted: Mon Sep 08, 2008 11:50 pm Post subject: |
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| Francesco wrote: | | People, don't let him confuse you. He's using simian pheromones. |
You promised you wouldn't mention the pheromones!!!
And Kirika, you are not alone about Karen. There are two of us. Find one more and we can form a club.
JC, sorry for pointing it out. It did make me laugh if it makes it any better for you. |
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