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DAREDEVIL: NEW AVENGER!
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Francesco
Underboss


Joined: 08 Jun 2006
Posts: 1307

PostPosted: Sat Sep 17, 2011 4:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

About time Bendis showed them how to write a Daredevil story.
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Darkdevil
Humanity's Fathom


Joined: 04 Apr 2009
Posts: 331
Location: The Bright, Sunny South

PostPosted: Mon Sep 19, 2011 11:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Francesco wrote:
About time Bendis showed them how to write a Daredevil story.


Really? And how exactly is that? Enlighten me as to why Bendis is one of the greatest DD writers ever, even considering this mess.

For I don't get it, nor will I ever probably. I've tried reading some of Bendis' DD work and I just can't. He takes pages and pages to do something that Lee, Thomas, Conway, could do in three panels. Sometimes his dialogue is okay, other times it sounds contrived, forced, too many 'wink-wink, nod-nod' moments.

Like the framing conversation in this Avengers issue. The sly, coy remarks. This is a team? No wonder I don't read Avengers anymore.

DD being an Avenger is right up there with wanting Spidey to be an Avenger, but not under these conditions. Taking down Nazi robots with ease? Who needs a demon to possess him then? Rolling Eyes

No thanks, I'll stick with Waid in the main title.
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AP
Flying Blind


Joined: 08 Jul 2010
Posts: 55

PostPosted: Mon Sep 19, 2011 11:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Darkdevil wrote:
Francesco wrote:
About time Bendis showed them how to write a Daredevil story.


Really? And how exactly is that? Enlighten me as to why Bendis is one of the greatest DD writers ever, even considering this mess.

For I don't get it, nor will I ever probably. I've tried reading some of Bendis' DD work and I just can't. He takes pages and pages to do something that Lee, Thomas, Conway, could do in three panels. Sometimes his dialogue is okay, other times it sounds contrived, forced, too many 'wink-wink, nod-nod' moments.

Like the framing conversation in this Avengers issue. The sly, coy remarks. This is a team? No wonder I don't read Avengers anymore.

DD being an Avenger is right up there with wanting Spidey to be an Avenger, but not under these conditions. Taking down Nazi robots with ease? Who needs a demon to possess him then? Rolling Eyes

No thanks, I'll stick with Waid in the main title.


I couldn't agree more Darkdevil.
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DesignDevil
Playing to the Camera


Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Posts: 157
Location: Tennessee

PostPosted: Mon Sep 19, 2011 5:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is a way I believe to make Daredevil an Avenger and make it work and work well. This issue was not it and only validated the views of everyone who thinks Daredevil shouldn't be an Avenger.

I love Bendis' Daredevil run, which is the only reason I gave this a shot. I'll be the first to admit his run on DD is full of inconsistencies, absurdly slow issues, and bad continuity with past stories, but his work on the character was second only to Frank Miller (who had a few wtf moments himself). I honestly can't believe this is the same guy who wrote "Underboss", "Out", "King of Hells Kitchen", and "Decalogue".

New Avengers 16 was ridiculous. I was giving Bendis the benefit of the doubt. I was thinking the whole gunning down a robot or two was all it would be in a mediocre homage to "Born Again". Nope, Matt Murdock took on an army of giant, heavily armed, Nazi robots like it was nothing and walked away without a scratch. Maybe in the next issue he can overpower Hulk in a hand-to-hand fight and then fly to the moon. And the practically fourth-wall breaking dialogue about "who is worthy to be an Avenger?" was borderline juvenile.
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Francesco
Underboss


Joined: 08 Jun 2006
Posts: 1307

PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2011 10:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Darkdevil wrote:
Francesco wrote:
About time Bendis showed them how to write a Daredevil story.


Really? And how exactly is that? Enlighten me as to why Bendis is one of the greatest DD writers ever, even considering this mess.


Because he writes DD as a competent hero, gives him is due instead of having him whine continuously on how miserable he is and has him fight real fights instead of continuously throwing him at bunches of thugs to gather info.
If you prefer have the DD book spotlight how cool Dakota North is or Daredevil getting headaches because the smell of dog poop on the curb overloads his senses, then Bendis' DD is just not for you.
Plus, don't forget that Bendis was writing a New Avengers book, fisrt and foremost. In it we see low powered heroes such as Cap or Hawkeye do amazing feats, I don't see why in a similar context Daredevil could not do the same.

Do I also need to point out that Bendis didn't have him punch down the Nazimechs as if he was Hulk, but rather: hitting them in the weakspots (the cockpit), take advantage of his greater mobility, trick them into hitting each other and use a large gatling gun.
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Darkdevil
Humanity's Fathom


Joined: 04 Apr 2009
Posts: 331
Location: The Bright, Sunny South

PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2011 11:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RGdesigner wrote:
I love Bendis' Daredevil run, which is the only reason I gave this a shot. I'll be the first to admit his run on DD is full of inconsistencies, absurdly slow issues, and bad continuity with past stories, but his work on the character was second only to Frank Miller (who had a few wtf moments himself). I honestly can't believe this is the same guy who wrote "Underboss", "Out", "King of Hells Kitchen", and "Decalogue".


My worst fear. Bendis can write good dialogue, but sometimes it pushes over into fanboy-speak. His sense of pacing is atrocious. Characterization is wonderful, but with a static medium such as comics, a balance of action is warranted. I want to read an issue and know the plot has moved along by the issue's end. Plus, while I don't consider myself a slave to continuity, if he doesn't even give a passing glance to previous stories, why should I care about his?

As for the Avengers, if Matt picks up a gun, he's already lost for he doesn't need them.

Born Again was a unique occasion given the damage and danger already incurred by Nuke, a credible threat. But picking up a gatling gun against rogue Nazi robots?? I don't see it other than more fanboy-wishing by Bendis.

And can someone explain why his membership card has Braille on it, especially if they know it's Matt and about his abilities??
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Francesco
Underboss


Joined: 08 Jun 2006
Posts: 1307

PostPosted: Fri Sep 23, 2011 12:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Born Again was a unique occasion given the damage and danger already incurred by Nuke, a credible threat. But picking up a gatling gun against rogue Nazi robots?? I don't see it other than more fanboy-wishing by Bendis.


Hellooo... those were Nazi mechs shooting on civilians. Shooting. on. unarmed. civilians. Enormous damage and danger, no diferrent, or perhaps even worse than the nuke situation.
The only reason why DD picked up a gatling gun in such an occasion is because probably there wasn't anything bigger available around.

Quote:

And can someone explain why his membership card has Braille on it, especially if they know it's Matt and about his abilities??

As a way of customizing it just for him, I imagine.
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Gee
Playing to the Camera


Joined: 09 Feb 2005
Posts: 119
Location: Scotland

PostPosted: Tue Oct 04, 2011 6:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cap, Hawkeye and Mockingbird are Avengers, this is why DD can be one, he is at least their equal and arguably more powerful. He picked up a gun because he was at war, thats what was required.

How much clearer can these points be made?

Bendis struggles with DD as he does not understand or know how to write his powers, he gets his character just not his powers.
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Darkdevil
Humanity's Fathom


Joined: 04 Apr 2009
Posts: 331
Location: The Bright, Sunny South

PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2011 10:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, that was fast. All the hoopla surrounding DD joining up and the very next issue, he's nowhere to be seen despite being featured on the cover.


Francesco wrote:

The only reason why DD picked up a gatling gun in such an occasion is because probably there wasn't anything bigger available around.


That's a comment I'd expect from a discussion concerning Frank, not Matt. That alone symbolizes the problems I have with Bendis.
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Francesco
Underboss


Joined: 08 Jun 2006
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 15, 2011 9:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

He had to take down several armored mechs. Just like when he had to take down Nuke's helicopter, or Ultron, or Namor, he used what was available in the surroundings.
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Guardian-Devil
Tree of Knowledge


Joined: 17 Sep 2005
Posts: 256
Location: Greece

PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2012 5:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

First of all I have to say that I've never read an Avengers comic before DD join. Now having read 5 issues of The New Avengers, DD was in in 3 of them, I have mixed feellings about it. I can't say I didn't enjoy it but somethng was off with DD. I'm feeling that he isn't the DD I know, maybe I'm wrong or maybe I'm not used reading "team comics", but I'm not totally satisfied with it.
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RDTOH
Flying Blind


Joined: 20 Feb 2012
Posts: 8

PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2012 10:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I picked up the issue where Daredevil joins the Avengers and have been following since. I might be jumping off soon. These past couple issues have bored me, and it seems like one giant battle after another. I haven't been reading the New Avengers book for a year, and it already seems redundant - and that's only one Avengers title. I can only imagine how unenthusiastic I would be if I was collecting all of them.

I wonder what role Daredevil will play in the Avengers vs. X-Men crossover: I suspect a minor one.
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Guardian-Devil
Tree of Knowledge


Joined: 17 Sep 2005
Posts: 256
Location: Greece

PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2012 7:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

RDTOH wrote:

I wonder what role Daredevil will play in the Avengers vs. X-Men crossover: I suspect a minor one.


If he has any... Wink
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dsugar
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Joined: 10 Jun 2011
Posts: 39

PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2012 8:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm glad that I get to see DD be more in the spotlight . I prefer he fight better and tougher villains but I'm not crazy about having so many Avenger teams. I probably would have preferred him having his own team, thats the one thing I liked about shadowland (he had the Hand, etc.) even though I wasn't crazy about the story. However I am reading the New Avengers only because of DD and I think Bendis is doing a good/decent job and Deodato's artowork is great. Kingpin and Bullseye are great but they have been exhausted and it's time for DD to beat the crap out of some other villains (there are soooo many great villains). I think between DD's Radar, etc. and his fighting skills he can take on much tougher villains. I think with his abilities he shouldn't be getting his ass kicked as much as he does, especially when fighting some of these weak villains. For example he can probably go head to head with any spidey villain, he's battled Doom, Electro, Cap and even the Hulk #163 which I enjoyed (probably battled tougher heroes than villains). He was no match for the Hulk but thats fine, it's the Hulk. I think they need to use his abilities more to make him a tougher character.To me DD is a Tier 1 character and should be.
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Gee
Playing to the Camera


Joined: 09 Feb 2005
Posts: 119
Location: Scotland

PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2012 11:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Love your post dsugar! People seem to forget how tough DD is, they forget he actually has superpowers (Bendis did this alot in his run), they forget he has fought and beaten Doom, the Absorbing Man and Wolverine etc. DD is a superpowered ninja, maybe the most powerful ninja in marvel U, lets get him fighting some tough villains, if Cap and Spidey can fight them DD can too!
This is why I am loving Waids run, he fights and beats decent levels bad guys, he is no victim.
The Avengers give him a platform to play in the big league, altho other than his first issue he may as well not be in it, what has he actually done?
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