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Was it right of Daredevil to kill Bullseye?
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The Overlord
Paradiso


Joined: 22 Aug 2004
Posts: 1094

PostPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2012 8:03 pm    Post subject: Was it right of Daredevil to kill Bullseye? Reply with quote

This happened over a year, but I think this does merit some more exploring. Was it right of Daredevil to kill Bullseye? That was supposed to be the moment in Shadowland when the audience was supposed to think there was something wrong with DD, but kinda fell flat in that regard.

On the hand, you can argue that its wrong for Matt to play judge, jury and executioner and kill someone without benefit of a trial.

On the other hand, Bullseye is a psychopathic monster with no redeeming values. Bullseye has killed hundreds of people, tormented Matt for years, tried to ruin his life and the justice system seemed unable to stop him. Even someone like Matt would have a breaking point. Bullseye is such a rotten guy, its easy to cheer DD's decision to kill him. Its the reason why Punisher works as a character, he fights such evil scumbags, that you end up cheering for him, despite the fact what he is doing is illegal and not completely ethical.

If Daredevil killed someone pathetic like Stilt-Man or tragic like Gladiator, he would come off as a bully or a fascist. But killing a monster like Bullseye comes off as a far more gray decision.
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RDTOH
Flying Blind


Joined: 20 Feb 2012
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 25, 2012 12:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I do enjoy the fact that Bullseye is dead, because it allows Daredevil to fight some other villains for awhile. I'm sure Bullseye will be back at some point, but this is a nice respite. If Bullseye was going to be killed off, I just wished it happened during a more epic battle and a better story.
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Daredevil24
Tree of Knowledge


Joined: 06 Apr 2011
Posts: 270

PostPosted: Sat Feb 25, 2012 2:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A man can only take so much,i'm glad he stepped up,unlike a certain hero from Gotham.
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theunrealstudios
Playing to the Camera


Joined: 14 Sep 2010
Posts: 137
Location: Toronto

PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 2:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

okay lol this will be long because "we" need to finally move past Shadowland and Bullseye so bare with me: first lets agree that Daredevil has killed before in the past alright? He's not a murderer but one COULD say that he has earned the title of "killer" (ref: Born Again, MWF, #350, etc).

That being said it's one of those moves that is possible to see from Matt but not very common. He's killed in self defense, he's killed when people were being massacred but the idea of murder in his situation? Let's see it from a personal context:

Your a man who has been a community activist for years and has made the neighborhood a better place. People like you and respect you compared to a guy who dresses up like an creepy arachnid. But along comes a guy who kills people for money and for fun. A man who YOU have saved from dying by a train and a tumor (who has killed a person you loved) is alive because you were the better man and played hero and it was the right thing to do....fine but this is on you your told years ago, your responsible and accountable the police officer says. You later drop him and he shattered his spine so he couldn't hurt anyone else... he then comes back and kills the love of your life...you suffer at first but you'll live with the pain eventually and move on. He returns after he finds out who you are in private and was in the process to kill your girlfriend in your own bed; not your doorstep, not a church but your own...bed. Although he failed he to your face tells you that he will personally go try again to kill your helpless vision handicapped (who now is your) wife (who is insane because you failed to protect her from the same kind of monster btw) and then kill your coworkers which includes your best and relatively only friend (who you've experienced the reality of him assumed dead before which nearly made you crazy in grief). This comes from the man who is known that if he wants someone dead it's within his reach and has just personally killed 107 men, women and children to which YOU failed to protect. YOU! The one who VOWED a guarantee for the safety of their neighborhood after calling yourself "king".... to which you are standing on their tomb site as this all goes down. You remember the feeling of hyper senses over a hundred heart beats flat-lining, heard the crushing sounds of concrete and bricks on bones and tissue, smelling the bloodstains and tears of dozens of people and hearing the final gasps of troubled, punctured lung breathing from the ones unfortunate enough to not die instantly. In your own special way this is watching them die next to you, all of them. You broke your promise and the people that walked through your streets everyday because you failed to act payed the price at having the potential joys of life robbed from them. "Evil has truly triumphed when good men stand by and do nothing" is what you hear when you hang your head in shame.

DC is the land of moral gods that you aspire to be in your everyday life as they are inhuman leaders. Marvel is the place where you meet above average people who teach you the value to fight the evil within yourself and the evil in the world without becoming a monster. One is what you'd like to be, one is what you are more likely to become. DC has the luxury of being unrealistic, Marvel does not have this.

Matt is no Punisher, he is no batman mind you but he is not a murderer. I still believe that you can redeem yourself after doing something bad even if it was a difficult grey decision and Waid is a testament to that thinking. Out of all the marvel characters who deserve a second chance and cannot be judged by ANYONE it's Matt Murdock. i DARE any character in comics to compare personal tragedies and look down on him in scorn. Why is this important? What's the point? it justifies the validity of this action. Did Bullseye deserve to die? yes. Should it have been legal and humane way by a group of his peers years ago? Yes. But if anyone deserved to kill Bullseye it was Matt as he's stolen the most from the guy. Comparison: Batman doesn't have the place to kill the Joker (he's close but Jason Todd has that slot next to anyone) but Matt Murdock has every reason to and so he killed him. He is trying however to be a better person since because he doesn't forgive himself for breaking his ethics meaning he still can be saved as a human being and his life is not destroyed. Case closed in my opinion, sorry this took up space but i like to write and we need closure. Let's see some other villains for a change! Razz
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Clayton Blind Love
Redemption


Joined: 30 Jul 2004
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 6:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not certain I can bring much to this discussion. I have read Shadowland once and have no desire to ever read it again. It was incredibly cheap to have a significant nemesis killled off by a possessed Daredevil. It wasn't even Matt to begin with. It wasn't a very fun reading experience for me. Much like the Joker is to Batman, Bullseye is the same to Daredevil. In strictly comicbook terms, this not a villian you have killed off from your books. Oh well. I await the cheese they cook up for his resurrection.
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theunrealstudios
Playing to the Camera


Joined: 14 Sep 2010
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Location: Toronto

PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2012 12:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

actually the beast took him over after because he killed; that's why he had the little breakdown while tearing his mask off inside. Anything that followed was Matt possessed apparently which is just BS writing to excuse yourself from following the past 10 years of stories. And your absolutely right, it was a lame move killing Bullseye off like this. DD stories aren't exactly praised for their great villains so you don't kill off the good (yet overdone) ones. but i at least like that it was Matt who did it and with a sai; it's almost perfect as a nod to miller but it should have been in a better arc. i think Waid and Wacker don't want to simply bring him back any time soon the same way they don't want to touch Fisk or ninjas as it's become repetitive. Wacker had enough respect not to bring back Karen Page when he could and i trust that Matt was crazy enough to do it.
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Clayton Blind Love
Redemption


Joined: 30 Jul 2004
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2012 1:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Okay, "possessed" was too strong of a word to use. However, the influence of this Beast was seeded within Matt long before that confrontation with Bullseye. There is no way Matt decided to wear that silly costume of his own freewill. Wink
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theunrealstudios
Playing to the Camera


Joined: 14 Sep 2010
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2012 1:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

lol okay influenced i can agree with mate. idk, i thought it was the perfect reflection of where he was at in his mind. if hells kitchen was afraid of a guy dressing up in red beating the crap out of them a guy dressed in black with ninjas seems alot more scary. Was it random as hell to see him like that? yes, i expected it presented as a gift in front of people or something.
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Francesco
Underboss


Joined: 08 Jun 2006
Posts: 1307

PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2012 6:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No, Clayton, that's not the case. A major plot point of Diggle's arc was that DD decided to kill Bullseye of his own free will, and that was the act that allowed him to become vulnerable to the possession by the Beast... it has also been declared (via captioned thoughts) by Matt himself in the epilogue of shadowland.

That said, overlord brings an interesting point. The fact that it was a fiend like bullseye, who deserved it more than almost anybody else in the Marvel Universe, to be killed as the turning point of matt's corruption was very anticlimatic.
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Clayton Blind Love
Redemption


Joined: 30 Jul 2004
Posts: 771
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2012 2:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for that Francesco, seriously. I guess I am in denial over this crap still. Wink Shadowwhaaaa?!?!
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