|
Daredevil Message Board
The Board Without Fear!
|
The Message Board is currently in read-only mode, as the software is now out of date. Several features and pages have been removed. If/When I get time I intend to re-launch the board with updated software.
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
qtmxd
Playing to the Camera
Joined: 19 Sep 2010
Posts: 149
|
 Posted: Tue Nov 12, 2013 3:23 pm Post subject: |
 |
|
| I think you're absolutely right that they shouldn't do a secret identity story early on for precisely the reason you give... the audience has to care first. What I do want to see akin to Bendis and The Wire is a tapestry, where Matt/DD is embedded in a complex story of corruption and fear mixed with the humanity of the urban community. I don't want to see a weekly procedural, where Matt keeps acquiring innocent clients and DD keeps finding the real killer. As for the action, short, intense bursts of it work best for DD . I agree that the low budget action on network superhero shows is dismal. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
MWOF
Flying Blind
Joined: 15 Jan 2005
Posts: 92
Location: Reading, Pa
|
| Posted: Wed Nov 13, 2013 9:32 am Post subject: |
|
|
The fire is stoked even more hearing that Drew Goddard is, more than likely, handling the writing chores for the Daredevil TV series. I like his writing background and I especially like his background with Daredevil.
_________________
www.comicgeekspeak.com
http://members3.boardhost.com/ArchieComics/ |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Gee
Playing to the Camera
Joined: 09 Feb 2005
Posts: 119
Location: Scotland
|
| Posted: Wed Nov 13, 2013 10:16 am Post subject: |
|
|
I have a few thoughts/hopes,
1) they don't do a Bendis story, maybe the MGH stuff but nothing else would work and some would just be rubbish.
2) they get the costume right, the leather didn't really work, not sure what would though, I think to make him legit they need to play up the ninja aspect but I agree with the above that it should not be a pair of pyjamas!
3) the lawyer thing could be very useful but should not be overplayed.
4) make sure he is a superhero, don't down play his powers, give him super villains to fight not just criminals, otherwise he could easliy get lost when Iron Fist and Luke Cage appear, without good use of his powers he will come across like a second rate Batman.
Arrow is a pretty good series and the powers that be could take alot from it.
_________________
when walking just walk, when sitting just sit, above all don't wobble. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
qtmxd
Playing to the Camera
Joined: 19 Sep 2010
Posts: 149
|
| Posted: Wed Nov 13, 2013 1:56 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I'm not sure why the views on the movie costume are so negative. I thought it was fine, and logically, I can't think of anything better than dark red leather. No one seems to want armor, and he certainly can't wear bright red spandex.
Beyond Kingpin and Bullseye (though does Marvel have Kingpin... I thought there had been some question), the Nocenti villains would work... Typhoid, Bushwacker, Bullet. But have them ongoing, not villains of the week. I could see the Enforcers... Brubaker made them real villains, not the buffoons they were in Spider-Man. Gladiator could make an appearance. Owl is obvious, but a poor man's Penguin.
ANd he needs a love interest that's a real story, not just "the girlfriend". They could do more with Milla than has been done so far in the comics. If Karen shows up, that could telegraph her becoming increasingly drug-addled until she sell his identity in the 13th episode. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Ash-n-Bone
Tree of Knowledge
Joined: 08 Apr 2009
Posts: 223
Location: UK
|
| Posted: Wed Nov 13, 2013 3:36 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I agree that a weekly procedural would be very boring. I love the idea of a Wire/Southland type tone where we get a real feel of Hell's Kitchen.
Also, its being reported that Goddard is in talks to be the series showrunner not just writer. If so I think DD is in great hands.
http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/lost-buffy-alum-write-run-655342
Finally, I'd love to see Karen's progression into drugs. IMO she'll always be the one true love Matt ever had and so I think she'd be a good addition to the show. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
qtmxd
Playing to the Camera
Joined: 19 Sep 2010
Posts: 149
|
| Posted: Wed Nov 13, 2013 3:49 pm Post subject: |
|
|
While I think any suggestion to revive Karen in the comics would destroy the realism even more than Waid has managed to do, the drug and identity story might be perfect for the tv series. In the comics, I'm still waiting for a writer to to do something decent with the long-suffering Milla.
As for what's happening in that other world of comics... we're not even positive it won't be another round of Waid and Samnee. If that's the case, the noir fans might as well just migrate over here. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Guardian-Devil
Tree of Knowledge
Joined: 17 Sep 2005
Posts: 256
Location: Greece
|
| Posted: Wed Nov 13, 2013 4:22 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I don't want to see DDs secret out in the first 13 ep. if the show gets more than one season that would be a great cliffhanger for season 2!! First i want to see a good origin in the first ep. and maybe the yellow suit... from ep. 2 till 13 i want to see a lot of DD, Matt in court with Foggy, Fisk or Bullseye, Karen and Gladiator. Make a story with that and I'm good!!! I think dark red is the way to go with the suit and definitely not an armor!
_________________
 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
The Overlord
Paradiso
Joined: 22 Aug 2004
Posts: 1095
|
| Posted: Wed Nov 13, 2013 8:56 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| qtmxd wrote: | I'm not sure why the views on the movie costume are so negative. I thought it was fine, and logically, I can't think of anything better than dark red leather. No one seems to want armor, and he certainly can't wear bright red spandex.
Beyond Kingpin and Bullseye (though does Marvel have Kingpin... I thought there had been some question), the Nocenti villains would work... Typhoid, Bushwacker, Bullet. But have them ongoing, not villains of the week. I could see the Enforcers... Brubaker made them real villains, not the buffoons they were in Spider-Man. Gladiator could make an appearance. Owl is obvious, but a poor man's Penguin.
ANd he needs a love interest that's a real story, not just "the girlfriend". They could do more with Milla than has been done so far in the comics. If Karen shows up, that could telegraph her becoming increasingly drug-addled until she sell his identity in the 13th episode. |
I'm not sure if the Enforcers can appear, considering they would be considered Spider-Man villains.
Could Bushwacker work on a TV budget though? That might be tricky. I like Mr. Hyde, but he would tricky to pull off on a TV budget too.
And really I think you would need Owl to be the rival in a gang war story, because let's face it Owl is the second most important crime lord character in the DD universe, but he is not really interesting enough on his own. I think he just works as a counter balance to Kingpin, while Kingpin is cool and in control, Owl has a hair trigger temper and is willing to spill blood at the drop of a hat. But asides a gang war story, there are not many stories where Owl would be a better fit then Kingpin as a crime boss.
They could use Mr. Fear, even if he is somewhat similar to Scarecrow.
They could have some villain of the week stories, but advance an overall plot regarding a growing conflict between DD and the Kingpin. Not every villain has to work for Kingpin, though many can.
Also I don't think Karen Page should sell out DD at the end of season one, that's too quick. A first season is always important for setting up stuff. We have to really establish Matt's status quo, before upsetting it. I don't think Born Again should happen till the end of season 2, at the earliest. I mean in the first season you have introduce all the main characters, most of the villains, set up relationships between them, etc. Elektra has to be introduced and get killed off sometime along the way. There is a lot of stuff to get through, there is no rush to hit all the high lights right away.
Also I wonder if Purple Man will appear in both the Daredevil series and the Jessica Jones series. Purple Man started out as a DD villain, but became more famous when he ruined Jessica Jones life. Maybe he will be the cause of the crossover between these characters. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
qtmxd
Playing to the Camera
Joined: 19 Sep 2010
Posts: 149
|
| Posted: Thu Nov 14, 2013 2:43 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Unless absolutely every character is named, I'm not sure how they decide who owns what. A lot of us thought Wanda and Pietro would belong to the X-Men's studio, but Marvel has them with Avengers. I might be the only one clamoring for the Enforcers, but it is an issue with Kingpin.
I think all the Nocenti villains would work well, and I don't see budget problems. I think Hyde and Fear are the kind of cheesy villains whom a good writer can deal with in comics, but wouldn't work onscreen. While he hasn't been with DD in any recent era, I thought the Purple Man story in Alias was excellent and would work well.
If they decide to use Karen's betrayal, I still think the end of the 13th episode is best, rather than hanging around for another year that's not even committed. That's after 13 hours, the length of six movies.... they can certainly build a character arc in that space, and I don't want the kind of soap opera that drags on forever with nothing happening. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
The Overlord
Paradiso
Joined: 22 Aug 2004
Posts: 1095
|
| Posted: Fri Nov 15, 2013 1:55 am Post subject: |
|
|
| qtmxd wrote: | Unless absolutely every character is named, I'm not sure how they decide who owns what. A lot of us thought Wanda and Pietro would belong to the X-Men's studio, but Marvel has them with Avengers. I might be the only one clamoring for the Enforcers, but it is an issue with Kingpin.
I think all the Nocenti villains would work well, and I don't see budget problems. I think Hyde and Fear are the kind of cheesy villains whom a good writer can deal with in comics, but wouldn't work onscreen. While he hasn't been with DD in any recent era, I thought the Purple Man story in Alias was excellent and would work well.
If they decide to use Karen's betrayal, I still think the end of the 13th episode is best, rather than hanging around for another year that's not even committed. That's after 13 hours, the length of six movies.... they can certainly build a character arc in that space, and I don't want the kind of soap opera that drags on forever with nothing happening. |
Well any character can be cheesy in the wrong hands, someone could say Bullseye is cheesy, he is an assassin who runs around killing with paper clips, that can be really cheesy in the wrong hands. Really Bullseye benefited from good writing in the comics, with lesser writing, he could have easily been cheesy.
There are no bad characters, only bad writers.
I don't see how Bushwacker is less cheesy then Mr. Fear and a guy who's arm turns into gun might be hard to pull off in live action. If they could pull him off, I would like to see him though, I do like him conceptually, even though he is hardly ever used nowadays.
Really Mr. Fear only seems cheesy due to the name and costume and those are easy to work around, tone down the costume and have someone else or the media give him the name. I think Mr. Fear's biggest problem is he is similar to Scarecrow, but Scarecrow is like a B-list Batman villain, so its not a huge deal, Jester being a rip off of Joker, the most popular super villain ever, is a bigger strike against him then a B-list DD villain being similar to a B-list Batman villain. I think I like Mr. Fear because he was one of the few villains who had a grudge against Matt Murdock first, rather then having a grudge against DD. It makes for a different type of villain.
I think Mr. Hyde is too sci fi for this series, but they should try to get as much out of DD's somewhat limited rogues gallery as they can. DD can't borrow other people's villains in this series, the franchise has to stand on its own two feet. Plus if Iron Man 2 made Whiplash into the main villain, I don't think most DD villains are too cheesy to be adapted, with a few exceptions.
As for Karen Page and whether she should sell out DD at the end of the first season, I think pacing is the most important things to get right for a TV series pacing something too slow can be bad, but pacing something too quickly can be bad as well. There are around 50 years worth of continuity to adapt in a limited run TV show, so I do think taking your time on certain things is not a bad idea. Maybe having Karen betray Matt at the end of season 1 might work, but I think it might be better to take more time to set that up better, before it happens.
Really Matt is going to get introduced to the audience in the first season, to have his origin, open a law firm, hire Karen Page, go out with her, reveal his ID to her and then have her have a drug problem and then sell him out, seems way too much to cover in the first season. If Karen is a junkie in season 1, there was way less reason for the audience to like her, really set up the tragedy by establishing why we should like her in season 1 and then have her fall into drugs by season 2, that hits harder. They got a million things to do in season 1, trying to introduce all the major characters and show Karen's descent into drug abuse over the course of a season seems way too much way too fast.
Also even if Purple Man becomes the main villain of the Jessica Jones show, considering their shared history, I am wondering if they won't introduce him in the DD show, just to set up the character, considering Purple Man was already an established villain before he met Jessica Jones in Alias. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
qtmxd
Playing to the Camera
Joined: 19 Sep 2010
Posts: 149
|
| Posted: Fri Nov 15, 2013 2:14 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| All good comments. But I'm hoping that they don't do all that history. I never liked films where it takes an hour to do the hero's origin, when everyone who cares knows it already. I know they have to explain DD's origin ( as much as I think the boxer who wouldn't take a dive is a cliche and I don't want to see it again), but I was hoping to cover it in one episode, maybe even some quick flashbacks, and I don't want to wait while he sets up a law office. I assumed they'd get right into the ambience of Hell's Kitchen. But I do agree with you, any villain can be cheesy with the wrong writers, and a good writer can make any of them worthwhile. And I personally hate any name, hero or villain, that begins with "Mr." |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
thank god for stilt-man
Flying Blind
Joined: 14 Sep 2013
Posts: 37
Location: United States
|
| Posted: Fri Nov 15, 2013 11:00 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| I really hope that the entire series isn't about his origin. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
The Overlord
Paradiso
Joined: 22 Aug 2004
Posts: 1095
|
| Posted: Sun Dec 01, 2013 2:53 am Post subject: |
|
|
| thank god for stilt-man wrote: | | I really hope that the entire series isn't about his origin. |
How would they make the whole series about his origin, that wouldn't make sense. It seems like something you could over in an episode or two, but you need to cover, because the general audience is far less familiar with DD then fans are. Anyway Newsarama had a list about what they want to see in a DD series:
http://www.newsarama.com/19674-10-things-we-d-like-to-see-in-the-marvel-netflix-daredevil-series.html
I agree with most of what they say, expect the yellow costume appearing, I really do agree with the sentiment of the number 1 point, if its an entire TV series, villains besides Kingpin and Bullseye should appear.
In terms of villains who shouldn't show up: Jester is too much of an obvious Joker rip off, Mr. Fear used the fear gas gimmick before Scarecrow, so whether he is a rip off is debatable, but Jester is a rip off of the most famous super villain of all. Stilt-Man would cost too much and his cost could not be justified by the limited role be would play on the show. Seriously if you want some goofy villain for DD to beat up within the first 5 episodes of an episode there is Matador, Leap-Frog and Turk, Stilt-Man brings nothing important to the table.
I think most of the other villains can work, though as I said before, Bushwacker and Mr. Hyde might be tricky to do in live action. I think some of the Silver age villains like Owl, Mr. Fear and Purple Man can fit.
I wouldn't mind tweaking some of the villains though, instead of the Wild Boys being just two street punks, it should be an entire street gang, working as low level enforcers for Kingpin and recruiting the poor kids of Hell's Kitchen into their ranks. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
qtmxd
Playing to the Camera
Joined: 19 Sep 2010
Posts: 149
|
| Posted: Sun Dec 01, 2013 8:26 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Well, some good ideas, but it sounds like they're trying to encompass every interpretation of DD, light and dark, and while you can do that in 50 years of comics, the tone for a series has to be fairly consistent. I don't want to see the yellow costume, and would be surprised if they took the time for that, as well as using villains that look like they belong in the 60s Batman show.
I still don't get this insistence I often see that DD had exceptionally goofy villains. They weren't unusual for the time, and only Stiltman appeared often enough to become a running joke. He hasn't met Purple Man, actually a pretty good villain, in what, decades? And before Bendis's artsy Wake Up, I think he fought Leap Frog (who was at least nicely grotesque looking) twice... in 1967. Hardly worthy of lifelong humiliation. He's getting laughed at by people who weren't even born then. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Bullseye11
Flying Blind
Joined: 05 Oct 2013
Posts: 67
Location: PA
|
| Posted: Sun Dec 08, 2013 9:51 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I would greatly enjoy seeing the owl. I think the Enforcers would help with the gritty feel. They could try on their own for a bit and then join Mr. Fear and become the fellowship of fear. As for the yellow costume, I think it would be cool to see it for one episode but no more than that. What that show obviously needs is mike murdock, though. Heck, why even have Matt? Who needs a boring stuffy lawyer when you can have a fun loving ladies man like mike. (Just kidding. There really needs to be a sarcastic font.) I have great hopes for this show, though. Can't wait!!!
By the way, have they confirmed that it was only going to be 13 episodes or is that just an assumption? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
Powered by phpBB © phpBB Group
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
