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Daredevil Message Board The Board Without Fear!
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Foggy's Pal Playing to the Camera
Joined: 12 May 2010 Posts: 106 Location: BEHIND MY DESK
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Posted: Sun Oct 26, 2014 9:41 am Post subject: |
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Are we ready for issue 5? If anyone is an issue behind in comments, just add them to your issue five comments. I think we should keep moving forward so we don't lose momentum already. I really hope we can keep this up; I'm really enjoying everyone's comments. I'm sure with busy lives we will all lag at times, hopefully someone can always keep us going. So issue 5....... |
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Mike Murdock Golden Age
Joined: 08 Sep 2014 Posts: 1750
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Posted: Sun Oct 26, 2014 10:26 am Post subject: |
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I can post it. So far, what I've been doing is posting the reminder for the next issue on Wednesdays, saying they're due on Sunday. That way you can post it earlier (i.e., any time after Wednesday), but there's still time to discuss it if you post on Sunday.
Given that I at least said it's due Sunday, I'll wait until tomorrow to post the next one to give everyone a chance to put their review in before then. Although I hate to say it, but I wouldn't be surprised if people are losing interest. _________________ Matt Murdock's cooler twin brother
Not sure what to read next? Check out the Book Club for some ideas!
I'd give the Devil benefit of law, for my own safety's sake!
Thomas More - A Man for All Seasons |
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Dragonbat Playing to the Camera
Joined: 15 Jan 2014 Posts: 144 Location: Toronto
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Posted: Sun Oct 26, 2014 3:12 pm Post subject: |
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The art was easier to take this time. I do agree that Matt's turning on Natasha and his paranoia seem off here. That whole misogynistic line... I am so glad we never see this again. I kind of get the reaction I got to Mel Gibson's anti-semitic meltdown, some time back. I.E. You can argue that he never would have said/thought that bile had he been in control... but is Matt possessed or are these his true feelings and the influence has just removed his filter? If it were the latter, I'd have to seriously examine my attachment to the character. (Again, after this arc, I don't think I've seen anytime when Matt has been remotely like this and I'll take the 60s and 70s in the context of the times).
First real hint at the criminal Mastermind (in the sense that I read this arc months ago for the first time and was surprised by the reveal. Here, we find out that the guy's a Spidey villain. In retrospect? Now that I've been reading not only classic DD but classic Spidey? The answer is staring me in the face but I'm not sure I can say it's obvious from what's been presented thus far and not from my already knowing the answer.)
Nice use of Sister Maggie. My inner editor caught a typo (worse for worst). They happen and it's far from the most egregious in a Big 2 book.
Three stars for bonding, action, drama, and pacing. |
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Foggy's Pal Playing to the Camera
Joined: 12 May 2010 Posts: 106 Location: BEHIND MY DESK
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Posted: Mon Oct 27, 2014 11:04 am Post subject: |
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Dragonbat wrote: |
First real hint at the criminal Mastermind (in the sense that I read this arc months ago for the first time and was surprised by the reveal. Here, we find out that the guy's a Spidey villain. In retrospect? Now that I've been reading not only classic DD but classic Spidey? The answer is staring me in the face but I'm not sure I can say it's obvious from what's been presented thus far and not from my already knowing the answer.)
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The next issue provides another clue to who it may be. There is a newspaper headline which narrows the possibility. I will stop there since we technically haven't moved on yet. |
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Mike Murdock Golden Age
Joined: 08 Sep 2014 Posts: 1750
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Posted: Mon Oct 27, 2014 7:00 pm Post subject: |
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We can start right now:
Part 5-
Guardian Devil pt. 5 - Devil's Dispair
Due 11/2 _________________ Matt Murdock's cooler twin brother
Not sure what to read next? Check out the Book Club for some ideas!
I'd give the Devil benefit of law, for my own safety's sake!
Thomas More - A Man for All Seasons |
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james castle Devil in Cell-Block D
Joined: 30 Jul 2004 Posts: 1999 Location: Toronto, Ontario
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Posted: Mon Oct 27, 2014 9:51 pm Post subject: |
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Darn. I've fallen behind. I'll post my issue 4 run down tomorrow. I promise. _________________ JC
So why can't you see the funny side?
Why aren't you laughing? |
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Mike Murdock Golden Age
Joined: 08 Sep 2014 Posts: 1750
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Posted: Tue Oct 28, 2014 6:50 am Post subject: |
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No problem. I've pushed up the timetable slightly on this, which is part of what happened. However, I'm going to end up posting my Part 5 review after work, so spoilers for those who haven't read it _________________ Matt Murdock's cooler twin brother
Not sure what to read next? Check out the Book Club for some ideas!
I'd give the Devil benefit of law, for my own safety's sake!
Thomas More - A Man for All Seasons |
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james castle Devil in Cell-Block D
Joined: 30 Jul 2004 Posts: 1999 Location: Toronto, Ontario
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Posted: Tue Oct 28, 2014 12:48 pm Post subject: |
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WHAT IS THE BAD GUY DOING AND WHAT DOES HE WANT? ISSUE 4.
Bad Guys:
Holy Cow, The Putter is Tiny Colonel Sanders! So I’ve deleted all the TCS entries and just replaced them with The Putter because we know they’re the same now. Lots of Putter news and facts below!
Baal, a dude who looks like a Demon and dresses like Bullet.
Note that I’m going to start putting “claimed facts” in italics. I think it’s clear that when the Putter is alone or with Mr. Gabriel he’s telling the truth. So those are facts. Things that he tells Matt or Karen or whatever may be true so they go in italics.
1. Presumable a bad guy blew up a maternity ward. We still don’t know who did this or why.
2. FACT: The Putter hired two rude dudes to kill Gwen's parents. This is basically a fact now but we still don’t know why he did it.
3. The Putter hired the two rude dudes to "eliminate" "the quarry". Still not clear who the quarry is and why she has to be eliminated. Still no Gwen news. The Putter is still trying to kill the baby. Why “the quarry” has to be “eliminated?” Unknown.
4. The Putter did not have anything to do with the apparently miraculous birth. We don’t know if Demon Bullet did.
5. The Putter plans to intercede in a more direct way. He clearly interceded when he went to go see Matt and Karen and told them to kill the baby.
6. The Putter plans to appeal to Daredevil's humanity. It’s still unclear what this means. Now three people have appealed to DD’s humanity: Gwen when she begs him to help the baby and The Putter when he begs him to kill the baby and Demon Bullet when he asks where the baby is. Is The Putter behind one or all of these? Why is he appealing to DD’s humanity? Unknown.
7. The Putter, tells Matt the baby is the anti-Christ and has to be killed. He gives Matt 48 hours to deliver the baby to them and warns that while he has the baby bad things will happen to him. The Putter leaves behind a cross thing in Matt’s hand.
8. The Putter wants to kill the baby because it’s the anti-Christ. This is according to him.
9. The Putter visits a smoking Karen in Matt’s apartment when Matt is out. He tells Karen that she has AIDS, in part, because of the baby and tries to get Karen to help. He strongly implies that if the baby isn’t killed Matt will also come down with AIDS. When talking to Karen he refers to her “species”; strongly implying he’s not human
10. Demon Bullet wants to know the whereabouts of the baby. We don’t know why other than it is very important and concerns the safety of the world.
11. Demon Bullet, who like everyone else, knows DD is actually Matt Murdock, does not want to even risk harming DD.
12. The Putter has been planning all this for over a year. He’s spent a vast fortune and is doing this as his swan song.
13. The Putter is an “old friend” or enemy of “The Arachnid”. Presumably Spider-man.
14. People used to laugh at The Putter.
15. The Putter hired Bullseye to find the baby (since his foot soldiers can’t) and to beat up anyone who is hiding it.
16. The Putter does not want Daredevil dead.
STRANGE DOINGS AND MYSTERIES SO FAR
The Lord appears before Gwen and tells her to seek out Matt Murdock/Daredevil. She tells him that the baby is the result of a virgin birth and that he has to protect it to save the world. Interestingly, The Putter knows this because he knows what Gwen told Matt in the office. How or why he knows this is unclear. Interestingly, the art in the background when Demon Bullet pumps the angel music into the white room is extremely similar to the art in the background that we saw when “The Lord” or “an angel” spoke to Gwen in issue 1..
Foggy is weirdly in love with Lydia. Lydia invites Foggy into her apartment for some hanky panky while someone dressed in a Dick Tracy outfit lingers in the hall. UPDATE: after said hanky panky Lydia smokes a cigarette, turns into a demon, attacks Foggy and then jumps out the window and all the way to hell when she dies and turns back into Lydia. Foggy is arrested for murder!
Matt uncharacteristically beats up a mugger in a particularly over the top way.
Matt tries to throw the baby off with the roof water.
Karen shows up with AIDS.
Matt tries to kill himself and the baby.
Matt yells at his mom and Karen. _________________ JC
So why can't you see the funny side?
Why aren't you laughing? |
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james castle Devil in Cell-Block D
Joined: 30 Jul 2004 Posts: 1999 Location: Toronto, Ontario
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Posted: Tue Oct 28, 2014 12:54 pm Post subject: |
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Okay, one last note on issue 4.
One of the reasons I wanted to deconstruct the plot is to see if it actually makes sense and hangs together. At this point (and I guess we're only half way through) I'm not sure it does. I think one thing that has to be asked is "why does what The Putter is doing make Matt question his faith?". Over and over again we're told that the Putter is attacking Matt's faith and that Matt is somehow losing faith but why?
At this point, all The Putter has really done is tell Matt and Karen that the baby is the anti-Christ (and maybe give Karen AIDS? somehow?). Why would that make Matt doubt his faith. If you're a believer wouldn't the confirmation that there IS an anti-Christ enhance your faith? _________________ JC
So why can't you see the funny side?
Why aren't you laughing? |
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Mike Murdock Golden Age
Joined: 08 Sep 2014 Posts: 1750
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Posted: Tue Oct 28, 2014 7:56 pm Post subject: |
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Yeah, from what was revealed so far, probably not. That being said, it isn't entirely clear if everything has been revealed. Building up false hopes to break them down is always a possibility.
Now for my review of part five:
OK, starting off with a sigh of relief. Being drugged is a fair compromise between pure supernatural and pure psychological. Has Doctor Strange appeared on Daredevil before? There have been some good crossovers in the past. Of all the characters, he may make the most sense here (even if it may be a bit of a copout "magic answer machine"). However, it's good to see a return of Mephisto (even though I don't think it was Nocenti's best work, I enjoy the nostalgia of the previous encounter. Plus, it's always good when the devil faces the devil). And his role is a nice little one. Ironically, just as the story is being safely de-supernaturalized, the appearance of one of Marvel's most supernatural individual helps make the case that the stakes are real.
But, of course, what makes the stakes real is Bullseye and he doesn't disappoint. That's how you do a bloodbath, ladies and gentlemen. Dead nuns, people killed with forks sticking out of their heads, yikes! Like I've said before, I know bits and pieces of this story. I certainly knew this ending was coming. However, it was handled well. It was tense, it was brutal. It wasn't Bullseye vs. Elektra. Karen could never be expected to stand toe to toe. But she was as brave as Daredevil in her own right, fighting for the cause, fighting for Sister Maggie (someone she barely knew), and fighting for Matt. Even then, it almost looked like it would end up OK. Good ending for the issue. Bold for Marvel to let Kevin Smith kill her off.
I'll give this one five stars.
BTW, the cover I chose to use was an alternate cover. While it's certainly a bit spoilery, it's just an awesome cover, so I had to use it. _________________ Matt Murdock's cooler twin brother
Not sure what to read next? Check out the Book Club for some ideas!
I'd give the Devil benefit of law, for my own safety's sake!
Thomas More - A Man for All Seasons |
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Dragonbat Playing to the Camera
Joined: 15 Jan 2014 Posts: 144 Location: Toronto
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Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2014 2:36 am Post subject: |
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Emotional gut-wrench of a finale. And more twists and turns than a Six Flags roller-coaster. While, for the first time, I didn't like Quesada's Daredevil (up to now I've liked his DD, hated his Matt), kudos for making plastic babies look plastic and the rest of the art really worked for me. I LOVE the way Bullseye is written here too. I'll give it five stars too. |
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Foggy's Pal Playing to the Camera
Joined: 12 May 2010 Posts: 106 Location: BEHIND MY DESK
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Posted: Thu Oct 30, 2014 6:58 pm Post subject: |
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One last thought. If the baby story being the anti Christ was used to have Matt question his faith, and patently false, what is the actual reason "the putter" wants the baby? Is it all part of the ruse or is there something about the baby or the girl? Thoughts |
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Mike Murdock Golden Age
Joined: 08 Sep 2014 Posts: 1750
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Posted: Thu Oct 30, 2014 9:27 pm Post subject: |
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Hard to say. Either the baby has some special ability that we still don't know (not sure the point of that once we've established she's not the antichrist, but it's certainly possible) or maybe the charade had to be as realistic as possible (which meant the girl needed to be terrified and think she would be killed). Although someone said that the Putter wasn't responsible for the baby's birth? I need a memory refresher. _________________ Matt Murdock's cooler twin brother
Not sure what to read next? Check out the Book Club for some ideas!
I'd give the Devil benefit of law, for my own safety's sake!
Thomas More - A Man for All Seasons |
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james castle Devil in Cell-Block D
Joined: 30 Jul 2004 Posts: 1999 Location: Toronto, Ontario
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Posted: Thu Oct 30, 2014 10:37 pm Post subject: |
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Mike Murdock wrote: | Hard to say. Either the baby has some special ability that we still don't know (not sure the point of that once we've established she's not the antichrist, but it's certainly possible) or maybe the charade had to be as realistic as possible (which meant the girl needed to be terrified and think she would be killed). Although someone said that the Putter wasn't responsible for the baby's birth? I need a memory refresher. |
In the first issue The Putter tells Mr. Gaberiel that "it's bad enough that the whelp was seeded without our knowledge" or something like that. The Putter is basically sharing his feelings with Mr. G at that point and so has no reason to lie. _________________ JC
So why can't you see the funny side?
Why aren't you laughing? |
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Mike Murdock Golden Age
Joined: 08 Sep 2014 Posts: 1750
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Posted: Fri Oct 31, 2014 6:18 pm Post subject: |
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Yeah, that's a good point. On the other hand, a baby is needed for the drug, it seems (unless it was just fortuitous). _________________ Matt Murdock's cooler twin brother
Not sure what to read next? Check out the Book Club for some ideas!
I'd give the Devil benefit of law, for my own safety's sake!
Thomas More - A Man for All Seasons |
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