Daredevil Message Board

[james castle]

WHAT IS THE BAD GUY DOING AND WHAT DOES HE WANT? ISSUE 5.

Bad Guys:

The Putter. Still not clear who he is. Apparently he looks like a guy was murdered (the John Curtain referred to in the obvious newspaper story).

Baal, a dude who looks like a Demon and dresses like Bullet.

1. Presumable a bad guy blew up a maternity ward. We still don’t know who did this or why.

2. FACT: The Putter hired two rude dudes to kill Gwen's parents. This is basically a fact now but we still don’t know why he did it.

3. The Putter hired the two rude dudes to "eliminate" "the quarry". Still not clear who the quarry is and why she has to be eliminated. Still no Gwen news. The Putter is still trying to kill the baby (see new reference regarding the drugged cross below!). Why “the quarry� has to be “eliminated?� Unknown.

4. The Putter did not have anything to do with the birth. We don’t know if Demon Bullet did.

5. The Putter plans to intercede in a more direct way. He clearly interceded when he went to go see Matt and Karen and told them to kill the baby.

6. The Putter plans to appeal to Daredevil's humanity. It’s still unclear what this means. Why is he appealing to DD’s humanity? Unknown.

7. The Putter, tells Matt the baby is the anti-Christ (which we now know isn't true) and has to be killed. He gives Matt 48 hours to deliver the baby to them and warns that while he has the baby bad things will happen to him.

8. The Putter leaves behind a cross thing in Matt’s hand that is laced with a drug that prevents him from thinking rationally whenever someone suggests the baby is innocent. He does this, presumably, so Matt will kill the baby. So far the only effects have been: Matt tries to throw the baby off with the roof water. Matt tries to kill himself and the baby. Matt yells at his mom and Karen.

9. The Putter wants to kill the baby. Well, according to him. Who knows why but it not because it’s the anti-Christ because it isn't.

10. The Putter visits a smoking Karen in Matt’s apartment when Matt is out. He tells Karen that she has AIDS, in part, because of the baby and tries to get Karen to help. He strongly implies that if the baby isn’t killed Matt will also come down with AIDS. When talking to Karen he refers to her “species�; strongly implying he’s not human

11. Demon Bullet wants to know the whereabouts of the baby. We don’t know why other than it is very important and concerns the safety of the world.

12. Demon Bullet, who like everyone else, knows DD is actually Matt Murdock, does not want to even risk harming DD.

13. The Putter has been planning all this for over a year. He’s spent a vast fortune and is doing this as his swan song.

14. The Putter is an “old friend� or enemy of “The Arachnid�. Presumably Spider-man.

15. People used to laugh at The Putter.

16. The Putter hired Bullseye to find the baby (since his foot soldiers can’t) and to beat up anyone who is hiding it. NOTE: the Putter does NOT hire Bullseye to either beat up Matt’s mom OR kill Karen. Both things are just a fluke.

17. The Putter does not want Daredevil dead.

STRANGE DOINGS AND MYSTERIES SO FAR

"The Lord" appears before Gwen and tells her to seek out Matt Murdock/Daredevil. She tells him that the baby is the result of a virgin birth and that he has to protect it to save the world. Interestingly, The Putter knows this because he knows what Gwen told Matt in the office. How or why he knows this is unclear. Interestingly, the art in the background when Demon Bullet pumps the angel music into the white room is extremely similar to the art in the background that we saw when “The Lord� or “an angel� spoke to Gwen in issue 1..

Foggy is weirdly in love with Lydia. Lydia invites Foggy into her apartment for some hanky panky while someone dressed in a Dick Tracy outfit lingers in the hall. UPDATE: after said hanky panky Lydia smokes a cigarette, turns into a demon, attacks Foggy and then jumps out the window and all the way to hell when she dies and turns back into Lydia. Foggy is arrested for murder!

Matt uncharacteristically beats up a mugger in a particularly over the top way.
_________________
JC

So why can't you see the funny side?
Why aren't you laughing?

[Mike Murdock]

I think the quarry is the baby. He's using it sort of in the sense of "catch" or object they're hunting:

Link

[Mike Murdock]

Sorry about the delay. I had a power outage:

Part 6-

Guardian Devil pt. 6: The Devil Divested



Due 11/9

On a side note, the quality of the titles have declined dramatically.
_________________
Matt Murdock's cooler twin brother

Not sure what to read next? Check out the Book Club for some ideas!

I'd give the Devil benefit of law, for my own safety's sake!
Thomas More - A Man for All Seasons

[Mike Murdock]

I never knew Karen Page of the Silver Age. My understanding is she wsn't all that well written (often being shallowy sad that Matt could never see how beautiful she was). By the point I started in Daredevil, Karen had left. Then Born Again brought her back. It's an odd introduction. It's a character who apparently had strong connections to the comic in the past appearing so completely broken. But it's a wonderful story and it's wonderful to see Matt and Karen together at the end. However, it was Ann Nocenti's run that really gave strength to Karen as Matt's companion. She was someone strong-willed and independent but still attached to Matt in the complicated ways that flawed human beings are. She would be fearful for Matt and want him to stop doing violent dangerous things. Then she would be grateful for him and all that he does. Their relationship (from that point on) was never simple, but I could see how they belonged with each other. The opening of this issue captured that. It's a frank, honest discussion in a way that I'd never seen them have before. But, while I've criticized Kevin Smith for failing to capture the voices of his characters before, I think he nailed it here.

The rest of the story is a bit more confusing, leading up to the end. The components are fine (not great, but fine), but I don't think they gel. And then we get to the reveal (which I vaguely remembered hearing about, but not strongly). I have to say, I thought I was more familiar with Mysterio than I am. I get his basic premise, but I otherwise don't remember much at all about him, what makes him tick, etc. Given that, I end up just feeling like his motivation was that he was bored. Does that make sense? Is he a villain that acts out of boredom?

Five stars for the Karen Page part, two stars for the rest. Comes out to Three and a Half Stars.
_________________
Matt Murdock's cooler twin brother

Not sure what to read next? Check out the Book Club for some ideas!

I'd give the Devil benefit of law, for my own safety's sake!
Thomas More - A Man for All Seasons

[The Overlord]

Well back in the Silver Age, it seemed like Mysterio framed Spidey out of boredom, until they much later retconned a reason for Mysterio to be black balled from Hollywood.

However I think Mysterio's main motive has always been fame, sure greed is something of a motive for him as well, but his first plot involved defeating Spidey and being recognized as a hero for it. Mysterio seems like someone who obsessed with getting attention from the masses.

The thing is you could easily replace Mysterio with Mr. Fear in this story and not really lose anything, Mr Fear has a personal grudge against DD and has a gimmick that is similar to Mysterio's. However they used Mr. Fear in a long story in 1998, so they likely did not want to use him again so soon.

[Mike Murdock]

That's a fair point. I said initially that it's easy for me to forget that Volume 2 was such a direct continuation of Volume 1. There were stories that kept going all the way to the end. I'm honestly not convinced Mr. Fear would have been significantly better because I still don't really comprehend the plan. I guess I'll find out next week.
_________________
Matt Murdock's cooler twin brother

Not sure what to read next? Check out the Book Club for some ideas!

I'd give the Devil benefit of law, for my own safety's sake!
Thomas More - A Man for All Seasons

[The Overlord]

[james castle]

[Mike Murdock]

Yeah, I'm really disappointed with how Foggy's story just up and vanished. I thought that had a lot of potential. I'm tempted to retroactively lower the score of that one slightly because I thought it was leading somewhere. Not every Daredevil story needs to focus on all elements of him and it gives some resolution to having Rosalind Sharpe, but it felt like there was more too it. I'm assuming Mysterio is to blame for that as well.

Part of what Mysterio is doing might just be about creating realistic things. The girl needs to be realistically terrified that she would be killed, Matt needs to become confused as to what's what, etc. I'm hoping this'll make more sense after next week.
_________________
Matt Murdock's cooler twin brother

Not sure what to read next? Check out the Book Club for some ideas!

I'd give the Devil benefit of law, for my own safety's sake!
Thomas More - A Man for All Seasons

[train]

Just lurking on this thread. Just wanted to say that I'm enjoying the reviews. JC's are a lot of fun to read. I know it probably takes a little time to put them together. Keep up the good work!

[Foggy's Pal]

[Dragonbat]

I love angst and I love character moments way more than beat-downs and explosions, so the first few pages really worked for me. And yes, I did like Matt putting it all together in that elevator. I'm not totally opposed to fight scenes (or I'd have a lot to complain about in most of my weekly reads...) and the action sequences worked well; the art has grown on me.

But agree that Foggy's subplot has not only been left hanging, but never really integrated with the story. Sort of "while I'm tormenting Daredevil as my swan song—" (and why DD and not Spidey? it's like Kingpin deciding that before he dies, he wants to take the Hulk down a peg or two...) "—why don't I just twist the knife a bit in everyone else he knows?" Karen got involved with the main plot in a major way. Can't say that about Foggy.

I think it's fair to say I enjoyed reading the comic while I was reading it, but then after I put it down, I started finding things to annoy me about the way it all went down. Sort of like a summer blockbuster that you love in the theater and then, over fast food and conversations with friends, realize that there were some gaping plot-holes and logic fails and things that just didn't make sense in retrospect. Three stars.

[james castle]

The Foggy subplot is basically gone at this point which is a real shame given just how completely ridiculous it is. Okay, so Mysterio wanted to mess with Matt so he frames Foggy for murder? The only way to help Foggy is to prove his innocence in a court of law! How can Matt even hope to do that? He's completely helpless! If only he was an incredible lawyer and defending wrongfully accused people was what he did for a living! If only! Oh wait.

So this genius part of Mysterio's plan is to set up a problem that Matt is uniquely and unbelievably qualified to deal with? In fact, he set up the ONLY problem that Matt is uniquely and unbelievably qualified to deal with. It's like trying to bring down Tony Stark with a math problem or tricking Wolverine into having "too many" beers.

If Mysterio did this to any other hero in the Marvel Universe you could bet that there'd be a Daredevil guest spot on the cards because Matt is the guy the heroes go to when there's legal problems!

Sigh.
_________________
JC

So why can't you see the funny side?
Why aren't you laughing?

[Mike Murdock]

Well, I could see Mysterio theoretically having other plans related to preventing Matt from succeeding during his trial so Matt gradually loses confidence in his ability as an attorney.* Maybe things just got resolved too soon for that. It is at least realistic that murder trials take a really, really long time and he could not have resolved the case in the little time we've had so far.

* Come to think of it, my idea would actually make for a more interesting, less convoluted story.
_________________
Matt Murdock's cooler twin brother

Not sure what to read next? Check out the Book Club for some ideas!

I'd give the Devil benefit of law, for my own safety's sake!
Thomas More - A Man for All Seasons

[Mike Murdock]

I guess we'll have to find out:

Guardian Devil pt. 7: The Devil's Demon



Due 11/16
_________________
Matt Murdock's cooler twin brother

Not sure what to read next? Check out the Book Club for some ideas!

I'd give the Devil benefit of law, for my own safety's sake!
Thomas More - A Man for All Seasons