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DD Book Club: Guardian Devil
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admiralpetty
Flying Blind


Joined: 22 Jun 2014
Posts: 48
Location: Kalispell, MT

PostPosted: Fri Nov 21, 2014 10:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

james castle wrote:
WHAT IS THE BAD GUY DOING AND WHAT DOES HE WANT? EPILOGUE

Okay, so there's only one more plot to remember/tie up:

Mysterio uses drugs and whatever to frame Foggy for murder. Foggy is later released because "they cleared the charges". So. Yeah. That's it. The End.

I hate Kevin Smith so much.


Agree so much(although I don't hate Smith personally, kinda seems like a fun guy). I've really enjoyed how you broke down how nonsensical his plot was in this story, just crap. As much as I dislike this story though, at least it doesn't crap on DD the way his Batman stories seem to crap on Batman. As soon as I see a character I like is being written by Smith, I just run the other way.

The one important part of this story is the death of Karen Page(the one scene that he wrote well), that is it, everything thing else can be safely ignored, as is evidenced by every writer since Smith ignoring everything about his run except for that one detail.
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Mike Murdock
Golden Age


Joined: 08 Sep 2014
Posts: 1750

PostPosted: Sat Nov 22, 2014 10:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There's also the final admission that Sister Maggie is his mom. That's been touched on again.
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I'd give the Devil benefit of law, for my own safety's sake!
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james castle
Devil in Cell-Block D


Joined: 30 Jul 2004
Posts: 1999
Location: Toronto, Ontario

PostPosted: Sat Nov 22, 2014 3:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mike Murdock wrote:
There's also the final admission that Sister Maggie is his mom. That's been touched on again.


That was made clear in Born Again and other stories. Smith is not responsible for that revelation.
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Mike Murdock
Golden Age


Joined: 08 Sep 2014
Posts: 1750

PostPosted: Sat Nov 22, 2014 11:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No. But he's responsible for no longer making it ambiguous and actually have the two characters have a discussion about it.

It wasn't "made clear" in Born Again, it was invented in Born Again, which is quite different considering how they left it deliberately ambiguous. Maybe it's just a sign of Smith lacking subtlety (where Miller preferred not to answer it for certain), but I also think it was time to acknowledge it a bit more directly.

A bit more of Guardian Devil was referenced in the Bendis works around the time of the 40th Anniversary. It may have just been Doctor Strange (although, for some reason, I'm thinking Black Widow), but they not only reference Karen's death, but reference his Catholicism more explicitly than anything besides Smith's work.
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Matt Murdock's cooler twin brother

Not sure what to read next? Check out the Book Club for some ideas!

I'd give the Devil benefit of law, for my own safety's sake!
Thomas More - A Man for All Seasons
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james castle
Devil in Cell-Block D


Joined: 30 Jul 2004
Posts: 1999
Location: Toronto, Ontario

PostPosted: Sun Nov 23, 2014 12:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is zero ambiguity in Born Again. He recognizes the cross. He asks Maggie if she's his mother and she says she isn't but her heart skips so we know she's lying. And she gives him the cross. And her inner dialogue.

At the end of Born Again there is zero doubt that Maggie is his mom.
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Mike Murdock
Golden Age


Joined: 08 Sep 2014
Posts: 1750

PostPosted: Sun Nov 23, 2014 10:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Look, my point is it's still acknowledged and discussed openly between the two. It's the first time that happened. I'm just saying that is a milestone moment even if everyone already knew she was his mom. Obviously, it's not a crucial point either way.

Still, as far as referencing events in the future, Smith's short run does more than most. Does anyone reference anything D.G. Chichester did anymore? The only thing anyone remembers is his suit. I guess maybe bringing back Elektra as an anti-hero. What about David Mack? It seems the only person to reference Echo is David Mack and then she's forgotten again.
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Matt Murdock's cooler twin brother

Not sure what to read next? Check out the Book Club for some ideas!

I'd give the Devil benefit of law, for my own safety's sake!
Thomas More - A Man for All Seasons
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Dragonbat
Playing to the Camera


Joined: 15 Jan 2014
Posts: 144
Location: Toronto

PostPosted: Sun Nov 23, 2014 9:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A nice denouement. I liked the interplay with Natasha. And Karen's letter. The talk with Peter was good too. Sometimes, these quiet issues really work. Sadly, the art is back to annoying me. Four stars.
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