Daredevil Message Board

[Mike Murdock]

Starting with the filler issue. Well, I guess they can't be helped in the medium. The story's actually not too bad. It's an interlude more than anything else, but it doesn't attempt to mess up the story that's been going on. Not the first story like this about Hell's Kitchen and it probably won't be the last, but it's a fun little side trip anyway. Hell's Kitchen is a character in its own right.

I guess there's not much else to say: Three and a Half Stars

Next issue:

Rosalind Sharpe is defending Fisk? Fisk is such an ass. The law stuff is dramatic, but wrong in almost every sense. Unless I'm badly mistaken, there's no pretrial procedure like that to dismiss the charges. Also, you can't just call a defendant to the stand (he has a Fifth Amendment right to remain silent). Although, if you do, I suppose you have to ask open ended questions like Foggy is doing. Fisk shows why doing that is such a terrible idea. I like to think Foggy is just off his game because of Ms. Sharpe.

Good inside jokes (and familiar characters) from the drawings at the movie store.

The ending was surprising. It certainly strengthens Maya's belief about Daredevil. I liked the switch in narrative to the Kingpin. It's his story too, afterall. And what he said about what "luck" is? Even though he was shot and fell from a bridge, I have the feeling that illustrates his example perfectly.

Four Stars. I'd give it more, but the law inaccuracies bother me too much.
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I'd give the Devil benefit of law, for my own safety's sake!
Thomas More - A Man for All Seasons

[Dimetre]

#12: The filler issue: This issue was made necessary by Quesada's gross lateness on delivering art for Mack's scripts. At the time he was in negotiations with Marvel for taking over as Editor-in-Chief. You know things are really off schedule when you have to throw together a fill-in issue to keep fans from revolting. And I do think this issue feels "thrown together". Portraits of characters only tangentially connected -- it kind of feels like that film Short Cuts. And Rob Haynes' work doesn't look like it takes very long to render. I think, due to Quesada's lateness, Daredevil: Ninja, Haynes' mini-series written by Bendis, actually was released first. I remember people on this board comparing Haynes' art to an etch-a-sketch. Very simplistic. It's better than I could do, but that's not saying much.

Oh, and "She grew up strong... She grew into a woman." Wow. Did Quesada and Palmiotti think nobody had read Sin City? Or perhaps they thought, "The more references to Miller, the more the fans will love this."

This issue was a bone thrown at us fans to tide us over, and it had hardly any meat on it. Nowadays it's barely worth mentioning.

#13: No surprise. I liked this issue. I'm not an expert on courtroom procedure, so I found all of the legal scenes very impressive. I thought Foggy was written more strongly than he had been for quite some time.

Quesada's art is very strong in this issue. The maze imagery in the legal scenes is a nice touch. Quesada's Kingpin is probably about the same size as Sienkiewicz's Kingpin: ENORMOUS. He also seems to be monstrously strong. He's able to rip a man's arm off. I'm fine with that. I like my villains to be threatening.

But I think the highlight of this issue for me was the trip into Fisk's mind. The next issue will go further, but as sinister as the Kingpin is, you can't help but admire his refusal to become a victim. He does this by arming himself physically and mentally. Of course, he goes too far the other way.

The ending of this issue has always kind of bugged me. If Maya sees Daredevil on the television and in the paper holding the gun that shot Kingpin, couldn't she have read the article and found out that Larry had fired the gun? Of course she wouldn't have read the article, because we need her to be even more angry at Daredevil.

A very good issue, but I can't say it's as good as the others in "Parts of a Hole."

[LightningandIce]

12 is kind of an odd addition here, but I suppose it's necessary. Look at the gap between issues here. Assuming this site's archives have the correct date, the time between 11 and 13 was five months. I can definitely see why they would throw 12 together to placate fans. That a crazy long time to wait between installments, especially since one of them ended on a cliffhanger.

I remember liking issue 12 a lot more the first time around than I did this time. Maybe because it was in the back of my hardcover and I read it after the main story was wrapped up. It's okay, and has a semi-gritty feel to it. I just think that it's a bit too coincidental the way that all of these people's lives match up so perfectly at that exact time, although I think that's pretty much what they were going for in the sense that everybody's lives effect everyone else's. You can add Maya (or should we call her Echo at this point?) accidentally hitting the thug to that list of coincidences.

I do like the artwork as well, even if it is drastically different and kind of cartoonish.

I think the biggest thing that strikes me with issue 12, in retrospect, is how it doesn't fit in with issue 13. If you accept it as canon, there's no reason that Daredevil and Echo should be unaware of this going on right around the corner from them. Instead, issue 13 opens with them and a bunch of kids in the park with no indication that a guy just fell off a roof less than a block away. But whatever.



So on to issue 13. There isn't much for me to add, I agree almost entirely with Dimetre. The maze imagery the was great, the courtroom proceedings were well done, and it does seem strange that Maya would misinterpret the ending.

I love all the little subtle things that Mack and Quesada keep dropping into this story. Those cute little chibi-Matts on the very first page, running around the maze and acting out his origin story, are genius. The shout-out to Karen Page was a nice touch, and the blind joke that followed had me in stitches. The Larry revelation was pretty awesome, too. It took me by surprise even though I've already read it. That guy is kind of badass if he could infiltrate Kingpin's ranks like that. A lot of good stuff in this issue.

The only thing that I didn't really care for was Kingpin's flashback. It seemed to come out of left field and didn't have much of a place in the overall narrative. It also broke up the pacing. I think it serves three purposes: To create some suspense andmake us think that Larry is dead, to give Fisk some characterization before he "dies" at the end, and to pad the issue. While that's a valid purpose, it still seems a little awkward to me.

Overall, this was another good one. It has it's flaws but it has a lot going for it as well.

[Mike Murdock]

I don't think Kingpin's story was padding. Granted, they didn't necessarily have to include Kingpin's background but, with Maya being raised by him, Crazy Horse's connection to him, etc., I thought there was a good reason to flesh out that part of it as well.
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I'd give the Devil benefit of law, for my own safety's sake!
Thomas More - A Man for All Seasons

[LightningandIce]

Well, maybe it wasn't. I don't think it was a bad segment, there was just something off about it that I can't really describe. Maybe it was the placing, being right smack in the middle of the courtroom proceedings like a Family Guy cutaway. Then again, I can see why it does make sense there, too. I don't know, maybe it's just me.

[Foggy's Pal]

There really isn't much to add at this point. It was a really great issue. I loved the childlike retelling of Matt becoming DD around the perimeter of the page, and I really liked the image of Kingpin with the guy being anchored to the bottom of the water as Kingpin is recounting his philosophy of being a powerful leader. He was reading Hitler, nice touch.
Ready for next issue- want Echo to take center stage again.
4 out of 5.

[Mike Murdock]

Daredevil #14 - Parts of a Hole pt. 5: An Object in Motion


Due 12/27
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Matt Murdock's cooler twin brother

Not sure what to read next? Check out the Book Club for some ideas!

I'd give the Devil benefit of law, for my own safety's sake!
Thomas More - A Man for All Seasons

[Dragonbat]

The filler issue was okay. For someone who's generally not very critical about art (I know the art is important in comic books, but generally I just sort of absorb it without comment), gee I can get critical! Not a big fan of the washed-out color look and the drawings are serviceable but unspectacular.

LOVED #13. Tense fight scenes and nice to have a motive for not finishing the hero that isn't just "I want you to squirm a little first". Not wanting to traumatize watching kids is a very good explanation.

I like the Fisk origin, and the courtroom drama worked for me, though not being a lawyer, I wasn't aware of/bothered by inaccuracies.

3 stars for #12, 4.5 for #13.

[Dimetre]

#14

This issue mark's Joe Quesada's exit as Daredevil artist. He pencils some of the pages, but clearly has left others for his replacement David Ross. Ross's art is okay, but I don't like it as much as Quesada's. Sometimes I find that Ross's figures bend in uncomfortable ways, or that their faces contort weirdly.

The first two pages feature a very expositional scene between Matt and Maya in a playground. Maya actually says the following line, "After I take care of it, I'll call you. Well, I won't exactly call you, 'cause I'm deaf and the phone is a hassle. So maybe I'll e-mail you." No one would actually talk like that. That dialogue is purely for the benefit of the reader. That was surprisingly wooden for a writer as strong as Mack.

I enjoyed the use of chains as a transitional device. The chains from the swingset. The chain on the punching bag. The chain on the desk lamp. I thought it was great to see Foggy turn into a man on a mission. Too many times has Foggy been used purely as comic relief. It was great to see him depicted as a very talented and capable lawyer.

The scene were the Black Widow is shot with the tranquilizer dart is odd. How many shots were fired? It looks like Echo was actually aiming for Natasha. Why? It looks like Natasha was hit in the abdomen, even though her head was in the crosshairs. Maybe Daredevil pushed Natasha? It's hard to tell. We don't see a dart sticking out of her. We also see a shot miss, even though Echo has been studying Bullseye, so she would have his aim. That page is very unclear.

I remember when this issue came out someone complained that there are two splash pages featuring Daredevil crashing through glass carrying Black Widow. This issue does seem to have some undue padding. And Daredevil's tactic of turning off the lights is one that goes back to the days of Stan Lee in the sixties. It's nothing we haven't seen countless times before.

Having said that, I love how intelligently Maya reacts to the defeat. Mack takes us through her thought process, and she draws up a brilliant strategy for her next meeting with Daredevil.

I don't think Matt can see what's on a television screen with his hands.

The final splash page made me excited for the next issue.

This issue was hurt by Quesada's departure, and some obvious padding. I still enjoyed it, but it's probably the weakest issue in the arc. I give it a 3 out of 5.

[Mike Murdock]

While it's before my time, I remember that Foggy once ran for DA. Even though Matt is the prosecutor by night, Foggy has no problem switching sides either. And after last week's debacle, it's good to see Franklin Nelson score some points. And for Mr. Mack, I think this shows that less can be more when it comes to something you might not be as strong on.

There's something tragic about the Daredevil/Echo rematch. Daredevil was smart in using his one advantage (the advantage of being blind? Only in a comicbook does that make sense). But he was taking advantage of Maya's disability. Even though the circumstances warranted it, it still leaves a bitter taste.

Well done issue. Four and a Half Stars.
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Matt Murdock's cooler twin brother

Not sure what to read next? Check out the Book Club for some ideas!

I'd give the Devil benefit of law, for my own safety's sake!
Thomas More - A Man for All Seasons

[Dimetre]

[Mike Murdock]

I agree completely. Foggy as effective lawyer is one thing I love. They're very inconsistent on this front. Frank Miller's Man Without Fear even suggested the only thing he contributed (besides his friendship, which is undeniably important) was his family's money. To me, Foggy is better when he isn't an incompetent character.

That being said, his idiocy earlier is probably explained by his mom getting inside his head. Under those circumstances, I have no problem with his screwing up when it serves the plot.
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Matt Murdock's cooler twin brother

Not sure what to read next? Check out the Book Club for some ideas!

I'd give the Devil benefit of law, for my own safety's sake!
Thomas More - A Man for All Seasons

[Dragonbat]

Excellent. Nice to see Foggy recover from last issue's defeat. Fantastic fight sequence. I do take issue with Matt knowing what was on the TV but I'll accept that a panel where the newscaster announces "a burning sign of two interlocking D's was found at the scene. Is this a new MO for Daredevil? More on this as it develops..." got cut in final edits. However, the pacing, the characterization, and the plot get full marks from me and the art grated less than usual. 4.5 stars.

[Mike Murdock]

In before the wire:

Last one!

Daredevil #15 - Parts of a Hole pt. 6: Vision


Due 1/3/15

I'll start a poll in the original thread for us to decide what to do next (whether to go straight onward or switch to something else).
_________________
Matt Murdock's cooler twin brother

Not sure what to read next? Check out the Book Club for some ideas!

I'd give the Devil benefit of law, for my own safety's sake!
Thomas More - A Man for All Seasons

[Dimetre]

So #15 wraps up "Parts of a Hole." Once again, I think the best part of this issue was the trip into Fisk's head. I don't think any writer before David Mack really went into Fisk's background before. Fisk's monologue tends to dominate this issue.

I found David Ross's art inconsistent. On some pages it's very strong. On other pages Fisk doesn't look like the same person from one panel to the next. The anatomy in the drawing of Daredevil on the second last page seems off. He's not my favourite Daredevil artist, and his work in this issue is better than that of his "Playing To the Camera" arc. I know he was brought in late in the game to replace Quesada, who, in my mind, is a tough act to follow.

I can accept the question-mark-shaped cut on Daredevil's face being the reveal for Maya. What's very hard to accept is Fisk's survival of that shot to the head. That has always strained credibility.

What's interesting to remember is that before this issue came out, the Daredevil/Spider-Man series was released, already spilling the beans on Kingpin's blindness. That's how enormously late Quesada made this book.

I thought Echo was a fantastic character, and she should have appeared in Daredevil more. The "Vision Quest" story doesn't count, because Mack created it with the intention of it being released as an Echo mini-series, not a Daredevil story. I have to feel bad for Mack. First, his "Parts of a Hole" faces huge delays between issues, then "Vision Quest" isn't released as he intended. At least Kabuki got released through Marvel's Icon imprint, but still.

Anyway, I still love the conceptual feel that ran throughout these issues. I think Echo is a great character, and I wish more had been done with her in the years that followed. I don't think Bendis ever really understood her. I think the story was hurt somewhat by Quesada's departure as artist, although Ross does an adequate job stepping in at the last minute. There are moments that strain credulity, but if you can get past them, this is a story that can rank as a favourite. It does for me. After getting people to read Miller's runs on the book, I always recommend "Parts of a Hole." It made me a huge fan of Mack, and I went and found his entire run on Kabuki. (The "Metamorphosis" trade is fantastic.)