Daredevil Message Board

[Dimetre]

This was a very strong issue. Matt is amazing in this issue, and Miller is probably the best writer to ever write his powers. I loved the junkies in this issue. The Kingpin is always fantastic under Miller's pen. I think my favourite moment in this issue is when Matt throws his club at the guard who's blowing bubblegum and listening to music. That's a fantastic Romita moment.

But it is the 90s, and it's Miller, so there is some craziness here. Did Matt kill those guys who were trying to steal from him once he got back to Hell's Kitchen? It certainly looks that way. It looks like he split their heads wide open. And since it's 90s Miller, why would I think otherwise?

I preferred it in the 80s when it would never occur to anyone, including Miller, that Matt would kill. In my mind, Matt can always rein himself in from killing.

I also liked the meeting between Matt and Foggy, but Miller always portrayed Foggy as something of a clown, who doesn't appear to offer much to the partnership. Here he has Foggy dozing while Matt uncovers the Stoelting vs. West decision (which, in the 80s, was something that Foggy discovered).

The page where Clay is blown up was well done, although I found myself imagining how much more powerful this page would have been drawn by Dave Mazzuchelli. I also thought the caption "It is to be his last thought," was an unusual bit of overwriting from Miller. I actually think the next panel would have been more powerful without that caption.

I also have no idea what Julio's motivation would have been for getting the children to sing. Is he a Sound of Music fan? The only reason for the children to sing is to give Matt something to hear. I don't get why Larks or Julio would want the children to sing.

But this is a better issue than the previous one. I find that Romita's art has gotten a little sloppier as this series goes on, although, as I stated earlier there are some great moments. And, again, Matt's shoes look great as he's jumping to get away from Larks.

[james castle]

[Mike Murdock]

I actually thought Mickey had spread the word to sing because she knew Matt had super hearing and was hoping he'd hear.

[The Overlord]

[DesignDevil]

[The Overlord]

[Mike Murdock]

[Dimetre]

[DesignDevil]

You guys aren't wrong on the points you are making. Not to bring another discussion into this thread, but this is why I'm in favor a "reboot". These characters have had so many different versions over the decades its silly.

Yes Kingpin has been loving man towards his wife and has tried to reform. He's also been a clown who bumps Spiderman with his belly. He's also been a cold blooded killer who doesn't care who dies in order to gain/maintain his power.

The Owl has been many things. When Waid recently used him he came across like a Scooby Do villain with his trap door. The whole time I was thinking about how in his last confrontation Matt stabbed him through the spine because he was getting ready to brutally murder (and possibly other things) Dakota. He'd been an unstable psychopath for the last decade.

Magneto has been hero at times. He's been a tragic figure who fights against a world he sees as unjust because of the tragic ends of his family and people. He's also been a genocidal maniac who sees humans as cattle to slaughter.

[james castle]

I don't think it's just that it's out of character for Kingpin but it just doesn't fit within the 616 Marvel U. Same with the other examples people are raised above. It's the Marvel Universe for heaven's sake. Every so often a writer goes to far to seem edgey and it just comes across tone deaf.
_________________
JC

So why can't you see the funny side?
Why aren't you laughing?

[admiralpetty]

[Mike Murdock]

Last one. I'm posting it a bit early because of the big game (TM) tomorrow:

Issue 5:


Due Feb. 7

Also, don't forget to go to the other thread to help decide what we should do next.
_________________
Matt Murdock's cooler twin brother

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I'd give the Devil benefit of law, for my own safety's sake!
Thomas More - A Man for All Seasons

[Dimetre]

The bulk of this issue feels like we're inside Sin City, or in an issue of Punisher, with its extreme and unrelenting violence, but I feel Miller went and justified it all with the following caption accompanying a cityscape on one of the last pages.

"Daredevil. It was in that one moment of cold purpose -- that moment when Mickey's life hung in the balance -- that moment when the wild part of him fond itself calm and clear -- that moment that Matt Murdock became a man -- it was in that one moment that the name came back to him."

Up until this moment, Daredevil was beating the crap out of people, stabbing people and blowing things up. At the moment to which Miller refers, he was calmer, presenting Larks with options, and repeating that he doesn't want to kill him. That's when the man we all know and love was fully formed.

Or maybe Miller was aware that this level of ultra-violence wasn't compatible with the character he helped define a dozen or so years earlier, but hell, he loved writing this stuff in 1993, and he had to find a way to justify it in a Daredevil story.

I liked that Miller had Matt batting away bullets, just like he drew way back in #159, in July 1979. I enjoyed the reappearance of Stick at the end of the story.

Reading this issue by itself in 2015, I'm not sure it feels like Daredevil anymore. You would never think that this guy in a dark track suit and mask was Daredevil if you only picked up this issue. It's not until after Larks is dead and we start reading about how "the boy from Hell's Kitchen has come home," that it feels like Matt again. Prior to that, as I said earlier, it feels more like Punisher or Miller's Sin City.

That final double-page spread used to be my computer wallpaper for many years. This mini-series represents John Romita Jr. at his peak, in my opinion. I will say, however, that this issue contains his sloppiest artwork of the series, and is closest to his current level. Matt's shoes failed to enthrall me this issue.

A very strong ending to this issue. I would give this one a three and a half.

This trade paperback was one of the first books I picked up when I got back into comics in the 90s. I was completely hooked, so it did it's job at the time. It was interesting to revisit it now that I have read so many more stories about Matt Murdock from so many more writers.

I think as Miller continued to descend into his fetish for extreme violence as the 90s drew on, he lost his grip on certain characters. I think this series proves that he know longer had any idea who Elektra was, and this was a character he created. Most people would concede that by 1993, he could no longer write Batman well. (Try reading Spawn/Batman from the same year.) Matt Murdock is different. This series stands as Miller's final word on Matt Murdock, and I think it contains some of Matt's finest moments. This character always brought out the best in Miller. Yet, when I read this final issue today, with it's extreme carnage, while it felt true to Miller, it also showed me that he was beginning to lose his grip on a character that was previously second nature to him. It's too bad Miller became so angry about Fall From Grace, and swore to never write for Marvel again. You have to wonder if he might have had a few more gems in him before bottoming completely out like he has in recent years.

[Dragonbat]

I haven't read Sin City or Punisher, but I have read Batman Year One. And I've noticed similarities. Hero on first 'real' night out in disguise but not the costume he'll eventually wear? Check. Arrested and escaping from police cruiser? Check. Seriously injured, losing blood? Check. (Though Matt saves the day instead of making it to the manor study and debating whether to call Alfred or bleed to death.)

Still... I continue to be in awe of the pacing. Loved the end bit. Everything from Matt laughing at the idea of going back to Boston to "God only knows what it looks like" really shone for me.

I will say that the art in the first couple of pages made Matt look a bit too bulky, though.

[james castle]

Yeah, I loved this series when it came out. Maybe it's because I was younger or because, at the time, I thought Miller was the greatest writer who ever lived but my love has definitely waned a bit.

Why is Matt begging Larks not to make him kill him? Matt kills those other two guards at the drop of a hat and all the sudden he doesn't want to kill Larks who is clearly way more evil? It doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

Also, Matt's sudden indifference to killing messes up some other stuff too. I mean, if he's fine with killing if necessary why doesn't he show up armed? Or why doesn't he arm himself once he's out there killing dudes?

Also, growing up on Nocenti, JRJR's Daredevil is my Daredevil. That said, the man really can't draw kids and really can't draw female kids so why there is a full page spash of Micky is beyond me.

Still, classic series.