Daredevil Message Board

[Francesco]

Bendis was well aware that Fisk was supposed to be blind as will be clear in a scene from a following issue (and much later on in the Hardcore finale issue)

[Mike Murdock]

If you had been following the comics, it follows from Parts of a Hole. It's not like the audience of the time wouldn't have known this. The sunglasses is all that's needed to acknowledge it.
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Matt Murdock's cooler twin brother

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I'd give the Devil benefit of law, for my own safety's sake!
Thomas More - A Man for All Seasons

[Darkdevil]

[Mike Murdock]

Then those who haven't followed it will just think he's an old crimeboss stabbed by a bunch of different people at once. They'll miss something slightly, but I don't think it ruins the enjoyment of the story. There's no practical way to put a footnote about every little detail. I had forgotten about him being blind and I thought it was fine.

Next up:

Daredevil Vol. 2 #27 - Underboss pt. 2


Due 7/5
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Matt Murdock's cooler twin brother

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I'd give the Devil benefit of law, for my own safety's sake!
Thomas More - A Man for All Seasons

[Mike Murdock]

I feel like last issue started with superheroes as an absurd concept, one that you couldn't take seriously. This issue starts with the exact opposite approach with those two cops. Daredevil is a hero and the only thing keeping the city from turning into hell on Earth. This is pre-SHRA, but it explores similar themes to that. It also just shows Bendis likes exploring the real world implications of superheroes without necessarily imposing a viewpoint.

The story gives a little more of a look into Silke as a character. He's cocky and defiant, definitely not someone who deals with superheroes on a regular basis. But his arrogance is leading him to go right after Daredevil in Hell's Kitchen.

This issue was still more setup, but it also had some good character moments. I mentioned the cops in the beginning. I also liked the tragic moments at the hospital - first Matt using his senses to realize that some of them aren't going to make it and then him walking down the hall and seeing one of them dead. That's pretty good. But, looking at my notes from last time, I ranted about the decompression and I had only read one prior Bendis story by that point. Given that, I'm going Three and a Half Stars, which is harsh because there's quite a bit I like here. Combine issues one and two into one issue and I'd be really excited for issue two next week.
_________________
Matt Murdock's cooler twin brother

Not sure what to read next? Check out the Book Club for some ideas!

I'd give the Devil benefit of law, for my own safety's sake!
Thomas More - A Man for All Seasons

[Dimetre]

I agree with Mike Murdock about the decompression -- it's murder, and it feels even more extreme this issue.

The story doesn't really move forward very much at all from issue #26. I realize that it's not being told chronologically, and much of this issue is filling in gaps in the past, but I find it so lame that Bendis chose to put what he did on the last page. The previous issue featured what looked like the Kingpin being fatally wounded. This issue opens with a double-page spread of the Kingpin lying on the floor, with fatal-looking wounds. Prior to the Age of Bendis, I thought issues had to end with a cliffhanger, or at least some sort of hook to entice people to get the next issue. The last page of #27 has Ben Urich taking a phone call, and telling one of his co-workers that "Kingpin's dead." That is not really news to us -- the readers. It might be news to many characters in the story, but not to us. So I find it to be an incredibly lame way to to end the issue.

The conversation with the two cops, while entertainingly-written, in no way deserves two pages, let alone three. I'm not even sure if we ever see these cops again. If not, it's pointless to spend this much time with them. And am I alone in getting annoyed whenever Maleev reuses panels within the same issue? Does that seem cheap to anyone else?

I have also long had a problem with Maleev's depiction of Matt's fighting style, specifically when he sits on top his opponent. That's how schoolyard bullies fight, and it's so graceless. Daredevil should always be portrayed as one of the most acrobatic and graceful fighters of crime in the Marvel Universe. Maleev often resorts to Matt spitting out orders through gritted teeth (I always preferred Quesada's gritted teeth to Maleev's gritted teeth), and sitting on top of his opponents while either hitting them repeatedly or brandishing his billy club.

Once again, we have to endure the litany of captions showing how much bombardment is coming at Daredevil's senses. Again, there is a lot of repitition, and we get the point long before Bendis' captions run out.

But here's a biggy: Look at the page where the cop shoots his gun at Daredevil and Nitro. Daredevil dodges the shot, and in the large panel, it looks like the shot passes close to, but also right by, Nitro's head. So it looks like it misses. It also looks like there is only one shot. In the next panel, a bullet hits Nitro in the thigh. I really think there was only one shot, because there was only one BAM sound effect. Why would Maleev draw these panels this way? Why would Stuart Moore accept these panels?

I liked how stern Daredevil was with the cops after that shot was fired.

The pages with Foggy in the hospital were well-written.

The confrontation with Kingpin was fine, although I've never liked the way Maleev draws action. I just don't think his work flows well from panel to panel. Also wouldn't Daredevil normally beat up all of Fisk's men before questioning Fisk? But he leaves a good number of men standing, including Silke. I enjoyed Daredevil's reaction to Silke, along with the "mutts" line, but dialogue is always Bendis' main strength.

The scene with Silke and the Kingpin's other men was expertly handled. I can't fault it, honestly. I like the way Maleev draws Silke. But the following page with Urich feels like the most ineffective way to end this issue.

I think this issue is a slight improvement from #26. I give this one a 2.5 out of 5. You should be able to count on more grumpiness from me as "Underboss" goes on.

[The Overlord]

I think this issue is proof again this story works better in trades, especially since events do not happen in sequential order in this story.

Kingpin being blind was more obvious in this issue then it was in the previous one.

I like the meeting between Silke and Kingpin's other lieutenants, that had a Good Fellas feel to it. I like Silke he is an arrogant scum bag, but kinda fun. He is clearly out of his element trying to deal with DD and NYC super heroes, he is like a character from a gangster movie translated into a comic book world.

An interesting tidbit, Nitro, the would be assassin in this issue, would later cause the incident that lead to Civil War a few years later, so he became somewhat of a bigger deal later on, for a little while.

I would give this issue 3 stars, its hard for me to give a proper rating to the individual issues, because they are just small parts of a larger story.

[LightningandIce]

Hi, I'd like to participate again. I didn't comment last week, so I'll mesh the two issues together. My comments are basically the same for both of them anyway.

My biggest complaint is the same as everyone else's. Everything that happens feels like it's about twice as long as it has to be. Starting with Kingpin's murder, there are a ton of different panels to show the same thing. I'm sure it's supposed to be dramatic, that we are supposed to read it like a slow motion movie scene or something, but it just doesn't work. The pictures are too cluttered and hectic to be good to look at, and it goes on way too long. The courtroom and explosion scenes have the same problem.

The one good thing that the "decompressed" style DOES have going for it is the dialogue, as seen in the cop car and hospital scenes. It let's the characters talk like real people. Say what you will about pacing, at least Bendis knows how to write good dialogue.

I kind of like Silke. My first time reading this story wasn't too long ago, and at the time, I hated him. He was just some annoying little punk, how could he challenge the freaking Kingpin? This time around, I realize that this is the entire point. He's a perfect scumbag that gets under your skin, and he reminds me of a gangster from a movie. He's growing on me.

Speaking of "the first time around," I should note that I didn't like the flashbacks before. The pacing and seemingly random order of all the chronological hoo-hah seemed tacked on for most the story. It was annoying. Going back, I actually know where all of this is going, so it isn't too bad. For a first time reader, though, it all seemed pretty aimless, like why the heck are we watching these people just play cards for several issues on end?

These two issues feel like they could have been trimmed down and merged into one. The story has a bit of rocky start so far but I don't think it's terrible.

[james castle]

UNDERBOSS - PLOT REVIEW - PART 2

New Information is Underlined. Retold Information in Bold.

1. Sammy Silke is a gangster from Jersey who has come to New York to set up shop in Hell's Kitchen. He left Jersey because of problems with a woman. He thinks Superheroes are silly.

2. Silke recognized Richard Fisk at the bar and goes to say "hi".

3. About two and a half months later Matt wins a Court case against a pharmaceutical company.

4. On the Courthouse steps Nitro "blows up" in front of Matt.

5. Matt changes into his Daredevil outfit and catches Nitro. Nitro thinks to himself that it's weird that "they" knew Daredevil would show up. Daredevil demands to know who sent him but then leaves without and answer when the police show up.

6. Matt goes to visit Foggy in the hospital. The two wonder who hired Nitro and think it might have been the Kingpin but maybe not (for three pages).

7. Matt confronts the Kingpin (in an underground garage?) and finds out that it wasn't him. Matt notices Silke in the crowd of gangsters that are just standing around for some reason.

8. One week later Silke, who has been causing problems meets with The Kingpin and a bunch of other mob higher ups. Silke complains about superheroes and longs for the good old days.

9. All the mob higher ups stab The Kingpin .

10. Kingpin dies.

11. Ben finds out that the Kingpin is dead.
_________________
JC

So why can't you see the funny side?
Why aren't you laughing?

[Mike Murdock]

Daredevil Vol. 2 #28 - Underboss pt. 3


To give context for this one, it was part of the [url=http://marvel.wikia.com/'Nuff_Said]'Nuff Said event[/url]

[The Overlord]

I think this issue needs some context before we review it. Back in 2001, Marvel had a company wide gimmick where for a month, entire issues have no dialogue (the gimmick was called "Nuff Said") and this issue is the Daredevil entry to this gimmick event.

[Mike Murdock]

Good point. I edited my post to include some info.
_________________
Matt Murdock's cooler twin brother

Not sure what to read next? Check out the Book Club for some ideas!

I'd give the Devil benefit of law, for my own safety's sake!
Thomas More - A Man for All Seasons

[james castle]

UNDERBOSS - PLOT REVIEW - PART 3

Wow, so not much to do this week so I'll use the opportunity to narrow down the plot points (such as they are).

And, yeah, this issue was part of the 'Nuff Said event but even on that standard it's pretty phoned in. Morrisson, in New X-Men, used the event to script a visual trip though Professor X's mind that revealed that he had a twin that he murdered in the womb! Bendis did a little less.

New Information is Underlined. Retold Information in Bold.

1. Sammy Silke is a gangster from Jersey who has come to New York to set up shop in Hell's Kitchen. He left Jersey because of problems with a woman. He thinks Superheroes are silly. While in a bar, Silke recognized Richard Fisk at the bar and goes to say "hi".

2. About two and a half months later Matt wins a Court case and Nitro "blows up" in front of Matt on the Courthouse steps.

3. Matt changes into his Daredevil outfit and chases Nitro. Nitro thinks to himself that it's weird that "they" knew Daredevil would show up. Daredevil catches Nitro and demands to know who sent him but then leaves without and answer when the police show up.

4. Matt thinks maybe the Kingpin set it up but then confronts the Kingpin (in an underground garage?) and finds out that it wasn't him. Matt notices Silke in the crowd of gangsters that are just standing around for some reason.

5. One week later Silke, who has been causing problems meets with The Kingpin and a bunch of other mob higher ups. Silke complains about superheroes and longs for the good old days. All the mob higher ups stab The Kingpin and Kingpin dies.

6. Ben finds out that the Kingpin is dead.

7. Matt gets a note from Elektra that says that there's an open contract on him. He's attacked by and beats up Shotgun (?) and Boomerang. He thinks about Bullseye and thinks he sees him in the crowd but doen't really. [I guess, in terms of plot, we don't know who put out the open contract. Presumably it's the same person who hired Nitro? If so that means that whoever hired Nitro is still trying to kill Matt]
_________________
JC

So why can't you see the funny side?
Why aren't you laughing?

[Dimetre]

Another thing I think needs to be pointed out about 'Nuff Said month: Bendis was also writing Elektra at the time, and the Elektra issue (Vol. 2 #6) acts as a companion to this issue.

I'm also not sure we can count this issue as part of Underboss, although maybe we can, because there is a price on Matt's head as in #26.

I think much of Maleev's artwork in this issue is impressive. Bendis did indeed give Maleev a script. The original issue includes Bendis' script for the first nine pages. It's interesting to read Bendis' script and compare it to what Maleev delivered. For the most part, I think Maleev did well.

Having said that, Bendis seems to be the one making the choice to eat up as many pages as possible by moving the action forward as slowly as possible. Six and a half pages spent showing Matt inspecting his office. That is way too many.

At times, it seems that Maleev proved unable to depict what Bendis intended in his script. On the page where there is a red dot on Matt's head (from Shotgun's rifle), the corresponding script reads:

[The Overlord]