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DAREDEVIL #18 Preview, Review and Discussion
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What did you think of DAREDEVIL #18?
5
23%
 23%  [ 3 ]
4
30%
 30%  [ 4 ]
3
15%
 15%  [ 2 ]
2
15%
 15%  [ 2 ]
1
15%
 15%  [ 2 ]
Total Votes : 13

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Kuljit Mithra
Hardcore


Joined: 29 Jul 2004
Posts: 1530
Location: Canada

PostPosted: Sun Aug 30, 2015 1:08 pm    Post subject: DAREDEVIL #18 Preview, Review and Discussion Reply with quote

DAREDEVIL #18, the final issue of volume 4 and the final issue by Waid, Samnee and Wilson, ships September 2nd.

Here's a preview, and it has spoilers that reveals info from last issue's final page... so be warned.

http://www.manwithoutfear.com/gallery/Daredevil-V4-018

Please use this thread for all discussion on the issue.
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JoeWithoutFear
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Joined: 16 Oct 2013
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 31, 2015 10:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is very exciting because...

A. The end of Waid!!

B. This actually looks like it might be a pretty cool issue. Ikari is by far the best thing to come out of Waid's run. Spoilers aside, I hope something cool happens there.
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DesignDevil
Playing to the Camera


Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Posts: 157
Location: Tennessee

PostPosted: Wed Sep 02, 2015 2:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So glad thats over. This issue had all the emotional weight of a wet fart. I gave it a 2 for Samnee's artwork.

Completely anticlimactic lead in to the fight with Kingpin. The resolution with the Kingpin was right out of the 2003 Daredevil movie. They punch each other for while then the cops show up cause "the word is out on the Kingpin". The end.

So Matt can now mimic other people's voices "passably." One or two words I'd buy, but when he starts freaking monologuing I rolled my eyes.

Waid, for the second time in his tenure, references the iconic "You shouldn't have signed it." line from Born Again in a completely pointless and awkward way.

Then we end the issue with Matt whining like a bitch and then Foggy and Kirsten McPerfect lecturing him. Kirsten's whole existence has seemingly been to make Matt look dumb, but Foggy under Waid has been a train wreck. Maybe Foggy's words to Matt would have a little more weight if Foggy had not gone along with, and actually encouraged, most of the utterly stupid things Matt has been doing for the last 2 years.

So happy I dropped this book 3 issues ago.
I welcome Charles Soule. I'd have welcomed almost anyone as the bar is not very high at all right now.
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Daredevil24
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Joined: 06 Apr 2011
Posts: 367

PostPosted: Wed Sep 02, 2015 3:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Damn,I knew he wasn't gonna kill off Kitstin McDuffie.
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Dayle88
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Joined: 25 Mar 2015
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 02, 2015 8:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Firstly, the Miller quote was so forced it just made the moment seem all the worse considering the subtlety and context it originated in.

The issue was pretty rubbish. All the philosophy and morality was lost due to just not really applying to anything. Words trying to sound meaningful tacked on to a bad story just amplify the lack of quality on each side.

Roll on the end of Secret Wars and the start of a hopefully exciting new era.
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kentuckydevil
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Joined: 19 Jul 2009
Posts: 79

PostPosted: Wed Sep 02, 2015 11:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RGdesigner wrote:
So glad thats over. This issue had all the emotional weight of a wet fart. I gave it a 2 for Samnee's artwork.

Completely anticlimactic lead in to the fight with Kingpin. The resolution with the Kingpin was right out of the 2003 Daredevil movie. They punch each other for while then the cops show up cause "the word is out on the Kingpin". The end.

So Matt can now mimic other people's voices "passably." One or two words I'd buy, but when he starts freaking monologuing I rolled my eyes.

Waid, for the second time in his tenure, references the iconic "You shouldn't have signed it." line from Born Again in a completely pointless and awkward way.

Then we end the issue with Matt whining like a bitch and then Foggy and Kirsten McPerfect lecturing him. Kirsten's whole existence has seemingly been to make Matt look dumb, but Foggy under Waid has been a train wreck. Maybe Foggy's words to Matt would have a little more weight if Foggy had not gone along with, and actually encouraged, most of the utterly stupid things Matt has been doing for the last 2 years.

So happy I dropped this book 3 issues ago.
I welcome Charles Soule. I'd have welcomed almost anyone as the bar is not very high at all right now.




So great...I have nothing to add...

well..actually something...

Apparently the 'mass media'...ie... Ign..Comicvine..IFanboy..ComicBook Resource... etc completely disagree with our take...They LOVE Waids run...I mean LOVE IT!!!!!

why?....beats me...because it's different?..Because its supposed to be different. Irreverent. Something..
Regardless here is where its at..

Where longtime readers..knowledgeable fans and a true diehard Host by the name of Kuljit Mithra... (a man that deserves a freakin' standing ovation)...discuss the character with differing experiences and opinions..

Anyway..From Kentucky to Canada..I salute you!!

ky..

ps..beer is good.


Thanks so much for your hard work and dedication to our favorite hero..
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Wheelie
Flying Blind


Joined: 10 Feb 2011
Posts: 37

PostPosted: Thu Sep 03, 2015 12:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dayle88 wrote:
Firstly, the Miller quote was so forced it just made the moment seem all the worse considering the subtlety and context it originated in.

The issue was pretty rubbish. All the philosophy and morality was lost due to just not really applying to anything. Words trying to sound meaningful tacked on to a bad story just amplify the lack of quality on each side.

Roll on the end of Secret Wars and the start of a hopefully exciting new era.


This issue rivals the worst final issue of any run. Awful.

I actually liked Waid a lot when he started.

Everything after the move to SF has been a disaster.
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Francesco
Underboss


Joined: 08 Jun 2006
Posts: 1307

PostPosted: Thu Sep 03, 2015 5:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Check that out. I totally called it Smile
The only way out was dressing up like Ikari and beat the crap out of everyone before they realized what was going on.

Oh and yes, at long last this god-awful run has ended.
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Thayrone Ibsen
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Joined: 13 Mar 2015
Posts: 59

PostPosted: Thu Sep 03, 2015 9:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Plus,

"Wait. That's it! I know what to do! I can save everyone if I just --" (#17)

whatever happened to that?? Shouldn't we at least be informed of what was Matt's greeeat idea???

Man... Fare the well, Waid. The sad things are: as said, the media, the comics critics really love this twisted run; the choices made in the character enter the canon, it really "happened"; and last, the only thing that can save said canon from that legacy is really a reboot (I didn't want that, but now it's obvious that Soule has his own, new agenda, and the end of this crappy volume has nothing to do with his new stories).
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DesignDevil
Playing to the Camera


Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Posts: 157
Location: Tennessee

PostPosted: Thu Sep 03, 2015 9:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Apparently the 'mass media'...ie... Ign..Comicvine..IFanboy..ComicBook Resource... etc completely disagree with our take...They LOVE Waids run...I mean LOVE IT!!!!!


I'm not trying to make a sweeping statement about everyone who enjoys this run here or anywhere else, but I do have to wonder how many of the people raving about the book are more fans of Mark Waid than they are actually of Daredevil. Would they still be raving if it was a different name on the cover telling these exact same stories? I've seen many people other places who love the book admit that they never read Daredevil before. How many of them will stick around for the next phase when hopefully we get back the Matt Murdock we all know and love?

Sales are down an average of about 20% since the beginning of his run, not counting spikes for the stupid relaunch, so Waid has lost more readers than he's gained, including this one for the last 4 issues.
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Kuljit Mithra
Hardcore


Joined: 29 Jul 2004
Posts: 1530
Location: Canada

PostPosted: Thu Sep 03, 2015 10:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kentuckydevil wrote:


Where longtime readers..knowledgeable fans and a true diehard Host by the name of Kuljit Mithra... (a man that deserves a freakin' standing ovation)...discuss the character with differing experiences and opinions..

Anyway..From Kentucky to Canada..I salute you!!

ky..

ps..beer is good.


Thanks so much for your hard work and dedication to our favorite hero..


No, thanks to all of you for sharing your views and continuing to visit this corner of the internet.

I know Waid's run has been trouble for a lot of you. While I'm not ready to declare the run better than some of my favourites yet, I never really had a problem with any of it... it wasn't always perfect, but it was entertaining to me.
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Daredevil24
Humanity's Fathom


Joined: 06 Apr 2011
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 03, 2015 11:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

RGdesigner wrote:
Quote:
Apparently the 'mass media'...ie... Ign..Comicvine..IFanboy..ComicBook Resource... etc completely disagree with our take...They LOVE Waids run...I mean LOVE IT!!!!!


I'm not trying to make a sweeping statement about everyone who enjoys this run here or anywhere else, but I do have to wonder how many of the people raving about the book are more fans of Mark Waid than they are actually of Daredevil. Would they still be raving if it was a different name on the cover telling these exact same stories? I've seen many people other places who love the book admit that they never read Daredevil before. How many of them will stick around for the next phase when hopefully we get back the Matt Murdock we all know and love?

Sales are down an average of about 20% since the beginning of his run, not counting spikes for the stupid relaunch, so Waid has lost more readers than he's gained, including this one for the last 4 issues.
I really believe that they are Waid fans,had Waid did this to Batman he would have been crucified by the internet.I also believe that he wasn't ready to leave the book,and I believe it shows in the last few issues.Waid has gotten more praise than Brian Michael Bendis and Ed Brubaker ever did and all he's done is lose readers.You can say that the industry as a whole has declined but Waid's numbers are pretty alarming anyway you slice them.The series had it's cute little breath of fresh air but the air got old really, really fast.I better not see Kirstin McDuffie again,she's the worst character to be created in modern Daredevil history.I'll never forgive Waid for forcing me to drop my favorite character's book.I hope Soule can restore the series dignity that Waid and company took a four year long piss on.
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Dimetre
Underboss


Joined: 16 Feb 2006
Posts: 1366
Location: Toronto

PostPosted: Thu Sep 03, 2015 3:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So this issue brings an end to Waid's long run. I'm surprised to read that this is the longest continuous run any writer has had in Daredevil history. I thoroughly enjoyed all of Waid's Volume 3 work. Volume 4 much less so.

This issue started off promisingly. I love seeing Daredevil in a jam, and wondering how he's going to get out of it. I think Waid has been particularly good at that throughout his run. Under Waid, Matt has gotten out of sticky situations predominantly by taking crazy risks. Matt has become very impetuous, and it's kind of appropriate for a character named Daredevil. That's been consistent throughout Waid's run, and a relief to me after seeing Matt become an extremely reactive character under Bendis, Brubaker and Diggle.

So it was interesting to me to see how long he could fool the Kingpin. I felt Waid came up with a reasonable explanation for why he would have skills for mimicry. He explained it, so it didn't strain my sense of disbelief very hard.

One thing I thought was sloppy was the inclusion of Julia Carpenter. I don't know much about her other than the fact that she was Spider-Woman in the 80s. I don't know how she was blinded. But, I gather we're supposed to think she knows Matt is posing as Ikari. Matt is aware of this to, which is why he whispers to her, "Gunman at two o'clock. Hit hard." Then Samnee never shows Julia doing anything. Waid even dropped the fact that she's a trained combatant. Shouldn't Samnee have shown Julia doing something? It makes no sense to have her there to do nothing.

This wasn't a very strong issue for Samnee. The blood disappears from Kingpin's face with no explanation. I found the changing of the colour palette for the panel where Matt punches Kingpin in the face kind of confusing. What was the significance of the colour change? It also seems like the fight ended with that one punch, and they all get away. Kind of a weak ending to the fight, in my opinion, and the Miller quote was indeed ham-fisted in there. You shouldn't have signed it? You knew Matt was behind this for a while now? What are you talking about?

It's really too bad that the end of Foggy's cancer battle has such a rushed ending. There was no hint that Foggy was doing better. Matt didn't get a whiff of Foggy's body chemistry until he was a captive of the Kingpin? Wouldn't Matt have been able to smell the improvement over the past few weeks?

But, I think the most disappointing thing is the failure to capitalize on a recurring theme Waid has been bringing up time and time again throughout his run -- Matt's reluctance to deal with his issues. Really, this has been going on since Bullseye killed Karen page almost 20 years ago. Matt has not dealt with his grief properly, and Bendis used that to explain the crazy marriage to Milla, and even his decision to sue the Globe. Brubaker made it overt with the effect Lily Lucca had on Matt. Matt's unresolved grief has been used to explain everything from his sleeping with Dakota North to his decision to lead the Hand. Waid, from day one, has been consistent, saying that Matt is refusing to brood over his grief. He is making a conscious decision to operate with a different attitude. I was fine with that, but I also saw that Waid kept his demons lurking just below the surface. Matt's baggage was there to see in the issues with the Moleman. The Purple Children story was by far the best one in Volume 4, because Matt was made to feel what he was avoiding for so long. For me, that gave me hope that we were finally going to see Matt deal with the issues he was avoiding.

In this issue we get one page where Matt owns up to the fact that he is not "fearless." He criticizes himself for being reckless and arrogant. Never mind the fact that it doesn't match up with his behaviour from the page immediately preceding, but it doesn't come close to dealing with the themes Waid kept alluding to throughout his run. And that's really too bad. So much promise squandered.

I will always, always defend the amazing work Waid did in Volume 3. I will always be bewildered by the precipitous drop in quality for Volume 4.
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Francesco
Underboss


Joined: 08 Jun 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 03, 2015 4:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Julia Carpenter became blind when she replaced Madame Web at the end of a Spider-man event. With blindness she also gained madame web's powers in addition to her own (clairvoyancy mostly).
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Kuljit Mithra
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 03, 2015 4:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd love to know what Stephan thought of Waid's run. Are you out there, Stephan?
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