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The Defenders is "Born Again" Mild Spoiler Alert J

 
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GratefulFred
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 26, 2015 3:53 am    Post subject: The Defenders is "Born Again" Mild Spoiler Alert J Reply with quote

Of one strange thing I noticed in Jessica Jones series is the inclusion of Nuke. I don't think it was random but purposely to lay the groundwork to bringing Frank Miller's "Born Again" to the television medium.

Though I am sure every DD fan loves this incredible story (No corpse was found) in one way there is a let down in that by exposing Matt's identity to the Kingpin Born Again really signifies the end of the Daredevil storyline and though several others, Brubaker, Bendis and others gave it some extra life (and of course Alex Maleev a.k.a Neal Adams), Born Again, as incredible a story it was, signified a spectacular end. If that was the last Daredevil comic published with Matt and Karen getting a happy ending we'd all have been happy for the run of our most beloved fictional character.

Born Again doesn't need Captain America/Avengers to show up as it has Cage and Jones and one can see how Kingpin could win over the deranged patriotic Nuke with a speech.

Still with the Punisher showing up predominately and the relationship of Karen and Matt needing to become something before Elektra reclaims her college BF driving Karen over the deep end, it's hard to say if Born Again is the Defenders but a lot can happen over 13 hours of episodes of DD season 2. Also clues could be dropped into the Luke Cage series so we do have time to see how things develop.

I am speculating and timing wise we'd all love to see 10 seasons of DD but Natflix/television doesn't work that way - renewing a season is a hit or miss and Marvel wants to give it a knockout punch and this story above all other stories is Marvel's best. Nuke's appearance adds a bit of suspicion and television doesn't have to play out like the comics chronologic wise.

Seeing the tragic Elektra and Bullseye and more of the Hand would be better in a future season 3 (but there is no guarantee for future seasons) and we still may get that but I think bringing "Born Again" has been the hidden goal of the Defenders since the beginning and Nuke gave it away (even if he's a minor character in the storyline).

Just a theory...nothing more.


Last edited by GratefulFred on Thu Nov 26, 2015 1:16 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Marcus Plato
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 26, 2015 5:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

And here was me hoping your post didn't need to include the words SPOILER ALERT in the title. Thanks. 😢
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GratefulFred
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 26, 2015 1:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry dude...but it's a side bar.

I added a mild warning for the next guy. Jessica Jones is awesome and it's got a DD villain, whom for your sake I will leave nameless save he has a color in his name Smile

Go watch it already and than 13 hours later comment on my theory. Lots of Nachos should do the trick.
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The Overlord
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Joined: 22 Aug 2004
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 27, 2015 12:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

To be fair, the Netflix series is not absolutely beholden to the comics and may change some details, even in an adaption of Born Again. For example, they may make Bullseye Kingpin's main enforcer in an Born Again adaption, while Jessica fights the group that created Nuke. However it would be kinda tragic for Nuke to go from being Kilgrave's pawn to being Kingpin's pawn, that would give the character a tragic pathos, so for me it could work either way. I like that they gave Nuke a back story in this show, in the comics he often just seems like plot device rather then a character.
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lonerangerninjutsu
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 30, 2015 3:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For me, Born Again really needs the Avengers appearance to be effective. It just wouldn't work out the same way with the other street-level heroes. It's short, but remarkably effective. All of Daredevil's struggles seem so minuscule whenever Thor, Iron Man, and Captain America arrive to contain the issue. Where Daredevil was struggling harder than he ever has, when the Avengers show up it's over within a literal flash of lightning.

And just because Nuke was introduced in Jessica Jones doesn't mean he can't appear solely in Daredevil later on. Jessica doesn't have to be involved via The Defenders. Also, considering that The Defenders should present the characters functioning together as a team, using a very personal story like Born Again as the primary plot would be a shame. The entire point of the narrative in the comic is to chronicle Matt's descent into paranoia, then his ultimate fall, and finally, his redemption. It'd be hard to do that and give the other characters a fair time to shine.

I hate to say it, but Born Again will probably never be adapted within the Netflix shows, at least not exactly. I'm sure some seasons of Daredevil will take cues and inspiration from it, but they'll never try to tackle the story head-on, and I'm okay with this. For example, season one of Daredevil is loosely based on The Man Without Fear, but it didn't exactly follow the story beat-by-beat. It had a lot of nods to it, but never followed the exact plot.
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Dayle88
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Joined: 25 Mar 2015
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 01, 2015 10:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Your head must be full up with random theories if you get The Defenders is Born Again from Nuke appearing in a show. (Great appearance too, I thought.)

Are Marvel, Fox and Sony making a giant twenty film Secret Wars crossover because Dr Doom was in Fantastic Four? Laughing

I also don't think The Defenders would be a place Marvel would do Born Again, if it happens in any form it will be a Daredevil season. I don't think they'll ever do it either though. They'll take cues and include nods but they'll never do a story with the same plot and that's better for us because we get new Daredevil stories in a different medium.

I never want to see a direct book to screen translation of a story. It won't be as good and it's a wasted opportunity for story telling.
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Mike Murdock
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 01, 2015 10:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In fairness, while I don't think it's happening either, Nuke wasn't in that many comics and Born Again is his most famous. Dr. Doom is in dozens upon dozens of comics.
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The Overlord
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 05, 2015 2:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mike Murdock wrote:
In fairness, while I don't think it's happening either, Nuke wasn't in that many comics and Born Again is his most famous. Dr. Doom is in dozens upon dozens of comics.


Too be fair, if Born Again is adapted to the Netflix show, they may make it more self contained, by getting rid of the Captain America related bits and it focused more solely on DD related character. To that end they may replace Nuke with Bullseye and really I'm fine with that change.

Really a lot of comic book movies do loose adaptations of famous stories, the X-Men movies took a fair amount liberates with adaptions of Days of Future Past and God Loves, Man Kills adaptions.
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Mike Murdock
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 05, 2015 9:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

But they've already hinted at a dark past for Karen Page, which also undercuts that. (ETA: And Ben Urich, of course). I've said before that what they should do for Born Again is figure out how much Chris Evans wants and how many episodes they could do it in to be faithful (it feels like one per issue) and then make exactly that with no other changes. To me, it's the perfect story.

By the way, if you haven't done so yet, please review issues 1-4 of Born Again and stop back on Sunday to review issue 5.
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The Overlord
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 05, 2015 8:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mike Murdock wrote:
But they've already hinted at a dark past for Karen Page, which also undercuts that. (ETA: And Ben Urich, of course). I've said before that what they should do for Born Again is figure out how much Chris Evans wants and how many episodes they could do it in to be faithful (it feels like one per issue) and then make exactly that with no other changes. To me, it's the perfect story.

By the way, if you haven't done so yet, please review issues 1-4 of Born Again and stop back on Sunday to review issue 5.


But again I think its unlikely they will bring in Chris Evans to the Daredevil show. Don't get me wrong, I would be happy if Cap and Nuke show up in the DD show (Nuke is more likely then Cap), but its not absolutely necessary for me. I don't have problems with changes to an adaption, as long as the spirit of the work is maintained and you still do a work that honors the spirit of Born Again, without Cap and Nuke, IMO.

I felt like Miller create Nuke to Kingpin's enforcer in this story, because he didn't want to use Bullseye again after paralyzing him, Bullseye could show up in a Netflix Born Again story and that could work.
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Mike Murdock
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 06, 2015 12:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I feel like Cap adds something to the story that's different. That's why Nuke works when Bullseye wouldn't. Hence why I said "figure out how much Chris Evan wants."
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GratefulFred
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 27, 2016 6:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't think it would be far fetched bringing Cap in for a few days of filming but not so necessary as the stars and stripes references isn't so vital. It would be nice but it could be a distraction. Jessica Jones and Nuke and the others (Power Man and iron Fist) could fill the void.

Pay attention that "The Killing Joke" Batman story has been a story they have been wanting to do for a real long time and now they are going to do it. "Born Again" is likewise one of those classic stories and a great story with great actors told over a long period could be incredible.

With trailers for season 2 out their we can see Matt and Karen and Matt and Elekra. A jealous Karen can be seen to happen.

Still with no Bullseye, little Kingpin being shown, it looks like a longshot for now.

Still 13 hours of film is quite a lot to see in season 2. If Karen ends up in season 2 drunk and crying and she knows about Matt/DD I think it may play out.
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