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Marvel's Daredevil S2E06 Discussion

 
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Kuljit Mithra
Hardcore


Joined: 29 Jul 2004
Posts: 1530
Location: Canada

PostPosted: Thu Mar 17, 2016 10:37 pm    Post subject: Marvel's Daredevil S2E06 Discussion Reply with quote

Please use this thread to discuss this episode and any relevant plot points that occurred prior to this one.
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Mike Murdock
Golden Age


Joined: 08 Sep 2014
Posts: 1750

PostPosted: Sat Mar 19, 2016 11:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Day two of my Netflix binge. Ow, my head hurts. I guess that's what happens when the Punisher shoots you in your armored head. Oh no, wait, I'm just hung over from all the Manhattans I drank last night. Oh well, time to pick up where I left off. As an aside, to start, my settings got messed up so the episode started with the Yakuza people with Chinese subtitles. It thought it was weird to have them speak Japanese and show the Kanji, but leave it untranslated. Anyone know what they were saying?

I have mixed feelings about this episode. Like most of the times that happens, it's the legal aspects. This post will probably be for those who care about the legal aspects more than anything else. I hate the trope of the "lazy green Public Defender." There are plenty of lazy lawyers. There are plenty of court-appointed lawyers who do seem to not care. But people who are fresh out of law school and sign up to be Public Defenders are generally true believers. They're the most zealous, dedicated around (I say this because I am one of them). It's perpetuating a negative stereotype that hurts poor people because they end up not trusting their own representation. I get that it makes sense narratively, but it still troubles me. I'm going to try and justify it as Reyes pulling strings to essentially choose her opposing counsel (given the corruption last season with the Kingpin, I can imagine it just doesn't vanish overnight). Plus, isn't it true that there's no "Public Defender" in New York. I thought it was the Legal Aid Society. They should have just said "court-appointed lawyer" (the legal aid society was conflicted out because they represented one of his victims previously). That would have fit well and, as a Public Defender, I have nothing against bashing private court-appointed lawyers Wink

There are technically other legal issues as well. One is the conflict of interest they mentioned in the episode - they represented someone he's alleged to have killed. It's a deceased client, but he can't waive that conflict and it's possible their previous representation hurts their current client's interests. On the other hand, they're right that Reyes can't call them on that. However, there's also a rule against soliciting clients in person. I think it's a dumb rule and it's often violated in exactly these contexts, but it does exist. I did cheer when Matt pointed out the obvious that Reyes was on thin ice ethically too by being there when she can't speak with Frank Castle without his legal representation present.

My complaints aside, I like what they've set up. I'm glad the Punisher storyline hasn't been abandoned. I'm glad they're representing someone who "is guilty." Furthermore, I like Frank Castle's interactions with the lawyers. For one thing, he doesn't like them since they defend the scumbags he puts away. He also isn't going to appreciate legal arguments that "hide the truth" or let someone "get away with something." Basically, defense attorneys are the antithesis of what he believes in (while he still needs to rely on them because he's a soldier. He doesn't understand the complexities of the legal world). I think, on top of her being in his house, it explains why he trusts Karen. Foggy is a lawyer, used to talking out of both sides of his mouth. Karen is someone he can see as honest. I also like that this theme is a continuation of the previous debate between Daredevil and Punisher. Each man is a world. Just like the people previously didn't deserve to die, Frank Castle doesn't deserve to die (even with 30-something murders, which would qualify you for the death penalty in Delaware*). I like the other story with Matt and Elektra, although it's clear that Daredevil is undermining Nelson and Murdock. I also want to point out that this is the first confirmation of Matt's blind cane being his billy club (at least, that it's heavy enough to be). A real blind cane wouldn't knock someone out. They certainly didn't have to keep that part (since it isn't all that realistic), but I like that they did (especially since he can't keep his costume under his clothes, so it's the only weapon he'd have as Matt Murdock under cover).

* If someone wants me to explain the procedure for the Delaware death penalty, I'd be happy to do so. Obviously, that's beyond the scope of this post (although it's been subject to some constitutional issues recently with a Supreme Court ruling that probably occurred after this episode was written). I do like that they acknowledged that New York doesn't really have the death penalty (which is something Law and Order routinely ignored because, hey, it's good drama).

Four Stars. The little things brought this episode down for me and I didn't think the other things that happened boosted it back up. It's a good episode, though. The biggest thing is what it sets up for the future. I do like where the Frank Castle story is going (there ain't no way in hell a trial would be set a week later but I'm going with the Reyes having disproportionate power explanation to hand-waive everything that doesn't make sense).
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darematt
Flying Blind


Joined: 26 Jan 2009
Posts: 46
Location: Spain

PostPosted: Sun Mar 20, 2016 7:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mike Murdock wrote:
Oh well, time to pick up where I left off. As an aside, to start, my settings got messed up so the episode started with the Yakuza people with Chinese subtitles. It thought it was weird to have them speak Japanese and show the Kanji, but leave it untranslated. Anyone know what they were saying


The yakuza motorists speak in Japanese:
- The hacker is on the ninth floor.
- Quick Move. And silent.
- At the end, we will give ten fingers the boss.
- any questions?
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Sciurid
Flying Blind


Joined: 20 Mar 2016
Posts: 21

PostPosted: Mon Mar 21, 2016 12:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Two quick thoughts:

1. "Why are you fancy?" made me laugh.

2. Very end of the episode, discussing Reyes fast-tracking the case. Matt stammers a bit about ways they can delay it, and Foggy counters: "Frank agreed. He thinks he's sticking it to Reyes or something." What is this about? Why would this be sticking it to Reyes from anyone's POV? Why does Frank's agreement override his counsel's?
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Dayle88
Playing to the Camera


Joined: 25 Mar 2015
Posts: 140

PostPosted: Mon Mar 21, 2016 1:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Isn't it just so she doesn't get what she wants straight away? Obviously there is some conspiracy with what happened to Franks family and he is only playing along at all so he can find out and then try and escape (guessing not spoilering).

I re-watched season 1 and really took a shine to the costume but the new mask improves it so much. I feel it's a bit strange that Matt started wearing higher boots and has the legs bunched up like they are an after thought after the first costume wasn't like that but there are times now where it actually looks like the iconic DD all because of a small helmet redesign.
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Sciurid
Flying Blind


Joined: 20 Mar 2016
Posts: 21

PostPosted: Mon Mar 21, 2016 2:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If the implication is that someone wants Frank disappeared, and is pulling strings to get the trial fast-tracked, which would hurt his defense, it seems that fighting against that would be the prudent move. Annoys Reyes, gives his counsel time to mount a defense, do some research.
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Dimetre
Underboss


Joined: 16 Feb 2006
Posts: 1366
Location: Toronto

PostPosted: Sat Apr 16, 2016 2:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There was a lot of great stuff in this episode, specifically...

Karen's scene with Frank. The details about Frank's house made for a masterful scene. That was great screenwriting. It humanized Frank, which isn't an easy thing to do. And I have never liked the Punisher.

I have also never really liked Karen. I suppose she was kind of cool from the Nocenti era on, but in this show she is really proving her worth.

As always, this season, there is something to bring down the episode, even when there are stellar points in its favour.

This Elektra just isn't doing it for me. I don't know why Matt is looking out for her. Sure, when he was young he felt something for her, but now he's a grown man, and he doesn't owe her anything. Plus, in this show, they never had anything but sex in common. Also, if it wasn't for his heightened senses, Elektra would have been killed half a dozen times in this episode alone. Has she even been trained by the Chaste, or is she just a crazy, spoiled woman with martial arts training who gets off on beating people up? Who is this Elektra?

Seriously, my compliments to the screenwriter for those details about Frank's house, but guys, all the stuff you needed for Elektra was in Miller's original run. What are you doing?
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Mike Murdock
Golden Age


Joined: 08 Sep 2014
Posts: 1750

PostPosted: Sat Apr 16, 2016 8:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Some of those questions are answered later, so I can't comment on them here.

But, as for drawing on Frank Miller, I think it's clear they're drawing on The Man Without Fear for Elektra.
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Matt Murdock's cooler twin brother

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I'd give the Devil benefit of law, for my own safety's sake!
Thomas More - A Man for All Seasons
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Dimetre
Underboss


Joined: 16 Feb 2006
Posts: 1366
Location: Toronto

PostPosted: Sat Apr 16, 2016 4:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mike Murdock wrote:
But, as for drawing on Frank Miller, I think it's clear they're drawing on The Man Without Fear for Elektra.

I realize that, but I think that depiction is so much less interesting than his original run.
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Dave Wallace
Paradiso


Joined: 29 Jul 2004
Posts: 1074
Location: Birmingham, UK

PostPosted: Tue Apr 19, 2016 8:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sciurid wrote:
"Why are you fancy?" made me laugh.

Ha, yeah, one of the biggest laughs of the series for me.
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