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Marvel's Daredevil S2E03 Discussion

 
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Kuljit Mithra
Hardcore


Joined: 29 Jul 2004
Posts: 1530
Location: Canada

PostPosted: Thu Mar 17, 2016 10:38 pm    Post subject: Marvel's Daredevil S2E03 Discussion Reply with quote

Please use this thread to discuss this episode and any relevant plot points that occurred prior to this one.
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Mike Murdock
Golden Age


Joined: 08 Sep 2014
Posts: 1750

PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2016 9:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This may have been my favorite episode of the three so far. I love the exchange of philosophy. It's not black and white on either side, but both sides are articulated very well. It's back and forth too. Really, the episode can be described as 2/3 philosophy. With the client, I like that he's been set up for two episodes as a somewhat scummy guy but ultimately trying to do the right thing and start again. This episode we find out he's kind of done something horrible in the past. By setting him up with an understanding of the good things but keeping the bad things off screen, it's creating a drama in the debate of Daredevil vs. Punisher. Most of all, I like that it's a debate. They're two sides of a coin, not the same side.

The fight at the end must be the one they described in the
spoiler-free reviews. I don't think it's as good as last year, but
it's still really good. There's a ferocity that keeps going and
doesn't stop. I have no idea how they pulled it off. I loved it.

Five Stars.
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Dayle88
Playing to the Camera


Joined: 25 Mar 2015
Posts: 140

PostPosted: Sun Mar 20, 2016 11:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great episode and I thought the fight scene was one of the best action scenes I've ever seen. I don't think they should have compared it to the hallways scene though. Nobody had ever really done anything like it so it was such a spectacle. The fight in this one showed how far he's come while keeping the spirit.

Loved Matt's huge grin as he pulled the trigger to confirm the gun was empty. It sums up the entire discussion they have on the roof top.
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james castle
Devil in Cell-Block D


Joined: 30 Jul 2004
Posts: 1999
Location: Toronto, Ontario

PostPosted: Sun Mar 20, 2016 3:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dayle88 wrote:

Loved Matt's huge grin as he pulled the trigger to confirm the gun was empty. It sums up the entire discussion they have on the roof top.


I didn't quite get that. I mean, the gun was empty at that point but there was a bullet in it earlier (that he used to shoot the chains). So what is he smiling about?

I really like S2 so far but here are my overly tiny complaints:

- The scene where Daredevil is chained up and Punisher gives him the "shoot me or I shoot him" ultimatum is a straight rip from the Ennis run. The comic did it much better and didn't have the cheap solution.

- Daredevil tripped someone using a log roll. I'm willing to accept a lot but that's a bit much.

- I think it's funny that tv shows and movies have adopted the "long underwear"/pajama's/tights language from the comics even though no one (except Spider-Man) actually wears that in the movies. When Punisher is making fun of DD for wearing long underwear and pajamas why isn't he like "what are you talking about? I'm wearing full body armor"?
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Dayle88
Playing to the Camera


Joined: 25 Mar 2015
Posts: 140

PostPosted: Sun Mar 20, 2016 4:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Your right. Completely forgot about that, I've been getting pretty caught up in enjoying it all. I guess the grin was just from the idea that he'd ever use a gun like he was taking it for a spin to see how it'd feel as a little joke to himself.
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Sciurid
Flying Blind


Joined: 20 Mar 2016
Posts: 21

PostPosted: Mon Mar 21, 2016 12:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Random thoughts on this episdoe:

I could watch several episodes of Matt & Frank arguing on a rooftop. So well-acted by both actors, though it seems Charlie Cox still sounds English when he tries to be angry as Matt.

I love Foggy talking down idiots in the ER.

I love Frank calling Matt "Red."

They're continuing with the "Matt gets knocked out and has a childhood flashback" theme. I'm not sure this one worked as well as the ones with his father last season; it didn't tie in to the story as well, I don't think, unless they were going some sort of vague, self-sacrifical, no killing theme. If anyone has insight here, I'd like to hear why this is the place to introduce Maggie (presumably).

It was a pretty good take on the "Frank ties up DD and tapes a gun to his hand." I've always insisted that if it had been a DD book, he wouldn't have taken the shot.

That said, why did Frank really put a bullet in the chamber? Was he that sure that DD wouldn't kill him, or was he okay with dying? Was he sure DD would kill Grotto? Why did DD pull the trigger again in the hallway? And then giggle? Just co confirm that Frank was telling the truth about the 1 round in the chamber?

One-shot fight v. 2.0 was good. It wasn't as awesome as last season's, possibly because it wasn't as unexpected or as desperate.
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obiwan570
Flying Blind


Joined: 27 Aug 2004
Posts: 32

PostPosted: Mon Mar 21, 2016 6:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DD skill set would tell him there is only one bullet in the gun just by holding it. He was probably smiling from the adrenalin rush he was about to get from the fun he was about to have with those goons
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Mike Murdock
Golden Age


Joined: 08 Sep 2014
Posts: 1750

PostPosted: Mon Mar 21, 2016 6:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sciurid wrote:

It was a pretty good take on the "Frank ties up DD and tapes a gun to his hand." I've always insisted that if it had been a DD book, he wouldn't have taken the shot.


Considering he has shot Punisher in a Daredevil book, I'm not so sure.
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Sciurid
Flying Blind


Joined: 20 Mar 2016
Posts: 21

PostPosted: Mon Mar 21, 2016 1:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mike Murdock wrote:


Considering he has shot Punisher in a Daredevil book, I'm not so sure.


I stand corrected. Do you recall which one?
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Mike Murdock
Golden Age


Joined: 08 Sep 2014
Posts: 1750

PostPosted: Mon Mar 21, 2016 5:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good Guys Wear Red (DD #184)



(sorry if it stretches the page a bit).
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I'd give the Devil benefit of law, for my own safety's sake!
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Sciurid
Flying Blind


Joined: 20 Mar 2016
Posts: 21

PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2016 1:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I still think this season's childhood flashback is kind of forced in the narrative, but something I didn't notice is that the nun's advice/command to Matt was the exact opposite of what Jack told him.

Still don't know why Frank actually loaded the gun in this version.
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rgj
Hardcore


Joined: 29 Jul 2004
Posts: 1580
Location: The Rio Grande Valley of Texas

PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2016 1:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The stairway fight was so amazing. I didn't think they could top the hallway fight from last year. I hope they do one every year in a different setting.
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Dimetre
Underboss


Joined: 16 Feb 2006
Posts: 1366
Location: Toronto

PostPosted: Wed Apr 13, 2016 9:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The stairwell fight was indeed spectacular. The fight choreographers on this show are ambitious and top notch. They should get an award.

Foggy Nelson is absolutely amazing this season. That speech he gave in the emergency room was the stuff of which actor's dream. Could this be the greatest portrayal of Foggy Nelson in any medium ever?

This episode, for me, was marred by an overly prolonged argument scene. Long-time Daredevil fans are very familiar with the philosophical differences between Daredevil and the Punisher. We've heard the argument over and over. In this episode, I felt the argument went on way past the point it stopped being interesting. It honestly felt padded, as if it was filling airtime between Foggy and Karen scenes.

I'm still enjoying the show, and the stairwell fight sure picked the episode up, but the overly long argument was something any showrunner should have suggested trimmed.
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Dave Wallace
Paradiso


Joined: 29 Jul 2004
Posts: 1074
Location: Birmingham, UK

PostPosted: Tue Apr 19, 2016 8:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dimetre wrote:
I'm still enjoying the show, and the stairwell fight sure picked the episode up, but the overly long argument was something any showrunner should have suggested trimmed.

Honestly, I found the argument even more compelling than the eventual fight. I'm glad they gave DD and Frank a chance to properly debate their individual points of view at length, rather than having everything be conveyed through action.
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Mike Murdock
Golden Age


Joined: 08 Sep 2014
Posts: 1750

PostPosted: Tue Apr 19, 2016 5:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Me too. That was the highlight to me. It emphasizes the philosophical differences between the two characters, which is fundamental to the dynamic.
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Matt Murdock's cooler twin brother

Not sure what to read next? Check out the Book Club for some ideas!

I'd give the Devil benefit of law, for my own safety's sake!
Thomas More - A Man for All Seasons
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