Daredevil Message Board

[james castle]

The only reason I put the Kingpin of Hell'ss Kitchen thing in there is because it kinda leads to Fisk's death? I genuinely forget if we ever get an answer for why Matt killed Fisk but it's possible that the only answer we ever get is "because he came back" which is a direct result of the Kingpin of Hell's kitchen stuff.

Also, super agree with the Typhoid Mary stuff. I don't think I was that creeped out when Last Rites came out but looking back on it that was super creepy.
_________________
JC

So why can't you see the funny side?
Why aren't you laughing?

[Dayle88]

Doesn't Kingpin coming back come from Brubaker's run with the Vanessa deal where he gives up his citizenship in exchange for Matt getting him out of prison?

After Matt kills Fisk he turns to the crowd and says 'You don't understand, I tried everything else.'

I guess he kills him to put a stop to the fighting and people dying that has gone on for years.

I don't think this book is meant to be a conventional Daredevil, I see it as the result of a normal guy fighting evil for all these years and the toll it ultimately takes. It seems like the beginning of the spiral of a guy who is inevitably losing his edge. Think of an all time great boxer getting to his mid-40s still fighting in tiny clubs and getting hurt. The risks and bad decisions they make is a direct result of their body giving up before their mind and doing things through sheer force of will in the hope that their body will keep up again.

If a villain loses they go to prison, if Matt loses once he dies.

[james castle]

[Darkdevil]

Okay,this is getting ridiculous. 5 illegitimate kids with four different women. At this point, I'm shocked that when Fury approached Ben, he didn't have SHIELD Agent Matthew Romanov in tow so he could explain to Ben if his mom had ever heard the word 'Mapone'.

Plus, I'm not a doctor nor a geneticist but I seem to remember hearing in some biology class that the red-head or ginger-hair gene is recessive. But four women of differing heritages all have red-headed kids by the same father. Damn Matt, not only are you a player but you also have kick-ass dominant genes!

Nothing happened here. Maya and Mary may have asked some intelligent questions but we're no closer to any clues whatsoever as to what this supposed word means.

The dialogue suffers some in this issue. For example, while sticking her powerful deadly finger in the small of Ben's back, Elektra says, "The end? The end was what the end was always about. Violence." Who speaks like that?

The scenes with Mary were very disturbing. I can somewhat justify Matt's actions with her in Last Rites (see book club reviews) but the implication here is that he went back to her at some later point. That is creepy, something I don't think Matt would do. The shot of Mary telling Ben that the kids are 'hers' while crying, very moving and sad. (Does that imply that she doesn't even remember giving birth to them? Wow.)

Maya's scenes were good, especially with Mack at the helm for them. So far, she's been the only one that Ben has approached to willingly talk to him about any encounters/relationships with Matt. Hearing that Matt lost an eye is quite surprising but Bendis missed out on giving readers a little payoff with this. I went back to #1 to the fight with Bullseye and there's little indication of such an injury to Matt. This acknowledgement from Maya would have been stronger if we had possibly known about this earlier.

I'd have to give this issue two stars. The plot wasn't progressed at all while all the illegitimate kids running around is pathetic. Can Bullseye pull us out of this funk? We'll soon see.

[james castle]

[Francesco]

Those are impossible odds, rather. Red hair is a recessive trait, and you can get it in an offspring only if both parents have the specific alleles in their chromosomes AND you are lucky, meaning in our case that Milla, Elektra and the others must in turn have had parents with red hair.

[Mike Murdock]

Daredevil End of Days #4



Due 5/1
_________________
Matt Murdock's cooler twin brother

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I'd give the Devil benefit of law, for my own safety's sake!
Thomas More - A Man for All Seasons

[Dimetre]

So, in the time this story takes place, Norman Osborn is the Vice President? What does it take to get people to distrust him? And Sam Wilson makes him his running mate? How does that make sense?

Most of my specific criticisms of this issue will be nit-picky, because there's nothing too wrong with the way that this story is told. The scene at Bullseye's place probably took up more pages than it had to. The crack about "His list of enemies has to be longer than my--" was kind of crass, and I'm not even sure the joke works. If you're referring to a penis, you're talking about length in centimetres or inches. If you're talking about a list, you're talking about number of names, not the centimetres or inches taken up by the list. So the joke doesn't really work for me.

But the thing that distracted me was the idea that the bullet ricocheted several times before killing Bullseye. It didn't look like the walls were made of material that would allow a bullet to ricochet like that. I'm not a ballistics expert by any stretch, but if a wall is made of drywall or plaster, how could a speeding bullet ricochet off of it instead of burying itself in it? I know that anything in Bullseye's hands is a deadly weapon, but that means that he knows how to launch anything in order to kill with it. If he's shooting to ricochet several times, that's a slightly different skill set.

I'm guessing that Urich knew that the woman in red wasn't really Elektra, because of the matchbook, but if he knew that, why did he think "Oh God"? We don't end up knowing the name of the woman he ends up questioning. We're deliberately led to think Elektra is involved in Bullseye's death, so when we find out otherwise, it's a little deflating.

The callback to #181 is a little cheap, and I don't think it really fits either. (I don't know why Bendis keeps referring to #181 throughout his work.) If you read #181 -- and everyone should -- you get the impression that Bullseye's murder of Elektra was no big deal for him. It was just a necessary step to rejoining the Kingpin's organization. He really didn't care about her, or about what he was doing. She barely mattered. So, if he's all torn up about "Mapone," why on earth would he hire a stripper to come over and dress up as Elektra so he can relive killing her? It makes no sense, and it shows a basic misunderstanding of his mindset when he killed her, which is quite a feat since he narrates #181.

Also, if the woman says the mask didn't have any eyeholes, why does Sienkiewicz draw eyeholes? And if the bullet ricocheted, why do we see Bullseye aiming the gun directly at his head.

I could have done with one less page of build-up to the Punisher reveal. I liked Frank's dialogue, but I predict that he will deny knowing what Mapone means, because we're only halfway through this story.

But, I am finding End of Days pretty tiresome, and I think I know why. Bendis and Mack have drawn parallels between this and Citizen Kane, but they don't seem to understand what makes that movie compelling. Citizen Kane is not about finding out what "Rosebud" means; it's about learning who Charles Foster Kane was, along with his rise and fall. End of Days is not about finding out who Daredevil is. We have learned plenty about the character in far better comics, and I don't think this comic has told us anything new about Daredevil. We are finding out what happens to his supporting cast, but I don't think anything we have learned so far is that compelling. This isn't even a story about Ben Urich trying to figure out how Daredevil was killed, because we all saw how that went down. No mystery there. No, this is simply a story about Ben Urich going around trying to figure out the meaning of a nonsense word. In order for this story to work at all, we have to care about finding out the word's meaning, and I don't think they make us want to care.

And we've only just reached the halfway point. This is hard slogging. I give this issue a 2.5 out of 5, mostly because it fails to make me care, and also for the awkward moments I already brought up.

[Mike Murdock]

^ I don't think he's doing a good job, but I do think it the idea is to explore what DD's been up to all these years while investigating what Mapone means. At least, that's what seemed to be the case earlier.

My review:

The issue opens up with Bullseye apparently dead, having written Mapone in his own blood before dying. There's a mix of fantastical and mundane here with Bullseye shooting himself with a trick shot that bounced off all the walls first (laws of physics be damned, but Bullseye isn't one to obey that law either). But it's an ignoble death overall. At least the suggestion of connecting Mapone with Bullseye makes sense. After all, he was one of the few people to hear Matt say it.

Apparently "he" (whoever that is) paid a blonde woman to dress as Elektra, which triggered Bullseye to snap. Now maybe this person doesn't know who "he" is, but a good reporter would at least ask for a description. It's annoying that he didn't and stunk of dragging things out.

The visit with the Punisher at the end was nice. I think that's part of the theme of the story - Matt Murdock went over the edge and became the Punisher. It's an interesting thematic concept to explore. But it was right at the end and very brief.

Still, I felt this issue had a bit of movement to it. By the time it ended, I thought we at least had an idea that there was a living person out there manipulating things. Maybe it's the other Daredevil, who knows? Three and a Half Stars.
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Matt Murdock's cooler twin brother

Not sure what to read next? Check out the Book Club for some ideas!

I'd give the Devil benefit of law, for my own safety's sake!
Thomas More - A Man for All Seasons

[Dayle88]

Isn't the 'he' Bullsye? And the 'Oh God' is referring to the fact that he was paying a prostitute to dress up as one of the love of DD's life?

[Francesco]

yeah, I too read it all as if Bullseye had gone nuts after killing DD and in his depression he hired a girl to satisfy a weird fetish about Elektra and then shot himself.

[james castle]

End of Days Part 4: No Disrobing Allowed

Plot!
NOTE: I’ve added Matt’s “romantic times� to the plot proper. It’s hard to say what happened and when but we know that Echo’s child a) is four and a bit and b) was conceived when Matt was still Daredevil. So we also know that Elektra had her little Matt before Echo had hers (because the soccer player is clearly older than 4 and a bit). It’s a bit harder with the twins and Milla’s kid but they look younger than 4 (opinions from actually parents would be appreciated here)? So they came after Echo’s kid. Which also means that he could have not been Daredevil anymore when he had those kids.

1. Daredevil named himself the new Kingpin of Hell’s Kitchen

2. Matt slept with Elektra and fathered a son.

3. Matt, while still Daredevil slept with Echo and fathered a son.

4. Matt slept with Milla and fathered a son.

5. Matt slept with Typhoid Mary and fathered twin boys.

6. Daredevil put the Punisher in jail (at some point).

7. Fisk came back to New York and Daredevil beat him to death in public. Daredevil and Matt Murdock disappear and no one knows where he went!

8. Years later. Daredevil and Bullseye fight. Bullseye gains the upperhand and right before he kills Daredevil, Daredevil says “Mapone�. Bullseye appears shocked by this word. So shocked that he ends up killing himself.

9. Ben Urich decides to do some investigating and learns that Matt said “Mapone� right before he died.

10. Ben has dinner with his 16 year old son Timmy. We’ve now learned that if it wasn’t for Daredevil Timmy wouldn’t be living with Ben.

11. Ben decides to write a story and a Daredevily person appears on the roof tops!

12. Ben goes looking for Black Widow but finds an old Nick Fury instead. Fury tells Ben that Black Widow died four years ago and that he has no idea what “Mapone� means.

13. Ben goes to visit Milla, Elektra, Typhoid Mary and Echo to asks if they knows what “Mapone� means. They don’t. Strangely he doesn’t bother asking about the 5 red headed boys that these women have in tow. Not even the one named “Matthew�.

14. Ben gets a call and learns that they’ve found Bullseye. He rushes off, followed by the guy dressed as Daredevil.

15. Ben visits a crime scene with a dead Bullseye on the bed. Bullseye has written “Mapone� in his own blood on the wall and killed himself. ANOTHER MYSTERY: isn’t it amazing that Bullseye knows how to spell “mapone� and does it in the same way Bendis does?

16. After finding out that Bullsesye had a women in the hotel room with him and after seeing a match book Ben rushes to Turk’s club and talks to a prostitute who apparently dressed….never mind. None of that matters. It’s all sort of needless sexual violence. Bullseye was repeating “Mapone� over and over again before he killed himself. That’s all you need to know.

17. Ben has more dinner with his son Tommy. It appears Tommy’s super power is being a really good dinner companion.

18. Ben goes to visit Punisher in jail and says…..MAPONE!

Ben(dis)’s Mysteries!
Why did Matt kill the Kingpin? Nothing.
Why did Matt leave New York? Because he killed the Kingpin (?).
Where did he go? Nothing.
How did Bullseye find him? Nothing.
And what did Matt say with his dying breath? Mapone.
What did it mean? Nick Fury, Milla, Elektra, Mary and Echo don’t know and neither do we. Maybe Punisher knows? We’ll see next issue!!!!!
Who’s the guy in the Daredevil suit? Who knows.

Fun Facts!

Illegitimate Kids Shown This Issue: 0.
Running Illegitimate Kid Count: 5.
Did What Happens on the Cover Happen: Basically yes.
Cliff Hanger: Mapone. (NOTES: it was on this page that a younger james castle first muttered “okay, this whole thing is a piece of s$@%.�)

Whose Time is it Anyways?

No new hints. Turk sure has aged though. So, we can look at it this way: People who have aged: Turk. People who haven’t aged: Every other character.

Now THAT is Decompression!

The entire completely useless Punisher sequence. Did we really need that guard listing nonsensical rules? No. No we didn’t.
_________________
JC

So why can't you see the funny side?
Why aren't you laughing?

[james castle]

[james castle]

[Dimetre]