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DD Book Club: End of Days
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Mike Murdock
Golden Age


Joined: 08 Sep 2014
Posts: 1750

PostPosted: Sun May 08, 2016 11:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Daredevil End of Days #6



Due 5/15
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james castle
Devil in Cell-Block D


Joined: 30 Jul 2004
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PostPosted: Mon May 09, 2016 1:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

End of Days Part 6: That's One Way to End a Scene

Plot!
1. Daredevil named himself the new Kingpin of Hell’s Kitchen and then slept with Elektra, Echo, Milla and Typhoid Mary and fathered five red headed sons. He also put the Punisher in jail.

2. Fisk came back to New York and Daredevil beat him to death in public. Daredevil and Matt Murdock disappear and no one knows where he went!

3. Black Widow died but before she did she probably had a child. Maybe with Matt but that’s unclear.

4. Years later Daredevil and Bullseye fight. Bullseye gains the upperhand and right before he kills Daredevil, Daredevil says “Mapone”. The word drives Bullseye crazy. So crazy that he Mapwns himself (get it? Come on. Who gets that one? Anyone who gets it please friend me on Xbox One and we’ll play some Destiny).

5. That kid from Wake Up is 16 now and lives with Ben.

6. Nick Fury, Milla, Elektra, Typhoid Mary and Echo don’t know what “Mapone” means..

7. Punisher knows what “Mapone” means. Without being specific he confirms that it was a trigger word that caused Bullsye to kill himself.

8. Punisher escapes prison.

9. The Punisher and Gladiator hint that Matt trained a replacement.

10. While interviewing Bushwacker Ben is pushed out the window by Bullet but New Daredevil swoops and saves Ben.

11. New Daredevil goes back and kills Bullet. In what can only be described as PEAK BENDIS we don’t actually see this happen. That’s right, instead of seeing a fight between a superhero and villain we get to see two people talk about what happened. They also talk about the pretty settled principles that heroes don’t kill.

12. Ben goes to see the Owl. Amazingly he doesn’t ask him what Mapone means. Actually, it’s not clear why he goes to see the Owl because he just sort of reacts to things the Owl says.

13. Ben goes to see Killgrave but when he gets there Killgrave is dead because the Punisher shot him.

Ben(dis)’s Mysteries!
Why did Matt kill the Kingpin? Nothing.
Why did Matt leave New York? Because he killed the Kingpin (?).
Where did he go? Nothing.
How did Bullseye find him? Nothing.
And what did Matt say with his dying breath? Mapone.
What did it mean? Nick Fury, Milla, Elektra, Mary, Echo and The Gladiator don’t know and neither do we. The Punisher knows. But he’s not telling. It made Bullseye kill himself though so it’s somehow connected to him.
Who’s the guy in the Daredevil suit? Who knows. Maybe someone Matt trained?

Fun Facts!
Illegitimate Kids Shown This Issue: 0.
Running Illegitimate Kid Count: 5 for sure. Maybe 6?
Did What Happens on the Cover Happen: No.
Cliff Hanger: None really.

Whose Time is it Anyways?
It’s Timmy! It’s Timmy from Wake Up! Which gives us reason to narrow the crap out of our timeline.

At the end of Wake Up Timmy was at least 6 because he’s in school. I would argue that he’s probably older than 6 but let’s be charitable and say he’s six.

So that means there’s 10 years between Wake Up and End of Days.

We also know that a full year passed between Hardcore and The King of Hells Kitchen. If we’re super charitable and say that all the other Bendis stories (because that’s all that seem to count) took a year that means there’s 8 years between the end of Bendis’ run and End of Days. You know, that’s not a tonne of time. Especially when you consider that Matt got 4 different women pregnant in that time.

[note: after going back and reviewing Wake Up I realized that Timmy moves in with Ben at the end so I guess I should have known this from issue 1. My bad.]

Now THAT is Decompression!

Nothing happens during the Owl/Purpleman visits. Nothing.
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ManWithoutBeer
Flying Blind


Joined: 13 Apr 2016
Posts: 8
Location: Josie's Bar

PostPosted: Mon May 09, 2016 4:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As the new guy here, let me just commend you all on this thread, which I'm finding extremely entertaining. Carry on.. I have EOD digitally so I'll have to skim through this issue and catch up.

I remember when this came out wondering if it was all some elaborate experiment. As in, kill off a character, revisit the entire supporting cast but allow them to do as little as possible, reverse nearly all of the character's known traits, and then see how long we can stretch this all out with no real story to tell. 8 issues. Impressive, in a perverse sort of way.
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Dimetre
Underboss


Joined: 16 Feb 2006
Posts: 1366
Location: Toronto

PostPosted: Mon May 09, 2016 5:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I haven't read everyone's thoughts on #6 yet, so these are my initial impressions.

The opening scene with Ben falling was poorly executed, because, while that served as the cliffhanger for #5, he clearly saw some sort of Daredevil coming to his rescue at that issue's end. He even reacted to him, with the soliliquy, "If Matt were alive, would he get here in time to save me? Would he even want... to?" But here, mere seconds later, he's thinking, "In the old days, this is when Daredevil, Matt Murdock, my friend, would swoop in and save me. But Matt is dead. Daredevil is dead. Damn you, Matt Murdock! The one time I really miss you and it's..." and then he's saved. The least you can do have a cliffhanger agree with the beginning of the next issue. It's utter carelessness.

The mimic of the cover for Amazing Fantasy #15 is amusing, but doesn't really have a point. It's a stunt that will appeal to comic book historians only. Besides, Daredevil has nothing to do with Amazing Fantasy #15.

The scene with Ben and Timmy in the hospital went on for five pages. It probably only deserved two. I found a lot of Timmy's dialogue painful. "You broke your arm! You broke it!" That's right Timmy. That's why there's a cast around it. "Hey! Daredevil is back!" That's right Timmy. Nice realization by the third page of your conversation. Plus, the inclusion of "great power/great responsibility" gives us two Spider-Man references already this issue. Daredevil is not Spider-Man. I would have excepted "man without hope / man without fear." That would have been correct. If you'd rather write a Spider-Man story, please do and spare us this.

Suki makes a Citizen Kane reference. They really think they're doing Citizen Kane, don't they? They really don't understand that movie.

The scene with the Owl went on for four pages, and all I got out of it was that he has Daredevil's mask (which really should be called a cowl, but whatever). I don't care that he has it. Why would I?

Also, now people are calling Ben, asking to talk to him. At least Killgrave does. Why? The Owl just bragged about having the cowl. There's not even evidence that Urich published anything about Matt yet. Why would anyone know that he's working on a story?

Bullet and Owl's deaths happen off-page, which shows those characters little respect. There are three deaths this issue (unless I missed someone), and the body-count is starting to feel sadistic.

All of this may have been acceptable to me if I felt we were going somewhere good, but this is issue #6, and I am failing to see the point of any of this. I am getting so annoyed, that I failed to get enjoyment out of Mack's pages alluding to "Wake Up" and Killgrave.

2 out of 5.


Last edited by Dimetre on Sat May 14, 2016 5:36 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Dimetre
Underboss


Joined: 16 Feb 2006
Posts: 1366
Location: Toronto

PostPosted: Mon May 09, 2016 5:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

james castle wrote:
11. New Daredevil goes back and kills Bullet. In what can only be described as PEAK BENDIS we don’t actually see this happen. That’s right, instead of seeing a fight between a superhero and villain we get to see two people talk about what happened. They also talk about the pretty settled principles that heroes don’t kill.

That's actually remarkable, considering we got five pages of Urich and Timmy. Would it have killed anyone to include one, or even a half a page for the fight?
james castle wrote:
12. Ben goes to see the Owl. Amazingly he doesn’t ask him what Mapone means.

That truly is amazing. I think Mapone only appeared on Ben's notepad in this issue. It was the most un-Mapone-y issue so far.
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Mike Murdock
Golden Age


Joined: 08 Sep 2014
Posts: 1750

PostPosted: Mon May 09, 2016 7:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

*Sigh* I don't really feel like reviewing this. That's pretty sad. The story starts with Ben Urich falling and crying out for Matt to save him. And the expected happens and this mysterious Daredevil does save him. I was fine with that, it was the logical step, but, of course, he immediately disappears. If he had stayed and given some answers, it would be better. However, it immediately followed Ben's son Tim with a D on his red jacket. Foreshadowing?

Apparently Bullet is dead. I was hoping the new Daredevil would be the classic Daredevil and not old, cranky, bitter Daredevil before he died. That's a shame. Glad Ben at least agrees with me. Tim is the kid from Wake Up. He apparently does not. He brings up points worth debating since Daredevil killed by someone he had the opportunity to kill in the past and refused (he also, fwiw, killed him in the past, but that's not a Bendis or Miller story). Someone refresh my memory. What happened to Leap Frog in Wake Up?

Bendis has scenes with the Owl, which I think he sucks at writing, which went nowhere and scenes with the Purple Man. I'll give Bendis for reinvigorating Killgrave in Alias. Some of the themes of what it's like to have a power like this are explored in that initial speech and explored in Jessica Jones's show as well. But we don't get to see any of that because Punisher apparently shot him (maybe Owlsley too). I guess that creates fewer people who don't know what Mapone means, though.

I liked the scene with Tim. That gets it three stars because I didn't particularly hate anything else. But I was certainly caught by surprise - not by Killgrave's death, but by the fact that the story ended abruptly right there without anything having happened. You know what? Screw it, Two and a Half Stars. By this point, the story needs to do more. I'm so glad I'm not paying for this. I didn't particularly hate anything in the issue, but the fact that there isn't more to it by the time it ends is just making me more and more mad. It's really stupid. I'm probably the closest you find to a Bendis supporter here. I like his original run. But this bothers the hell out of me.
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I'd give the Devil benefit of law, for my own safety's sake!
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james castle
Devil in Cell-Block D


Joined: 30 Jul 2004
Posts: 1999
Location: Toronto, Ontario

PostPosted: Mon May 09, 2016 11:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dimetre wrote:

The opening scene with Ben falling was poorly executed, because, while that served as the cliffhanger for #5, he clearly saw some sort of Daredevil coming to his rescue at that issue's end. He even reacted to him, with the soliliquy, "If Matt were alive, would he get here in time to save me? Would he even want... to?" But here, mere seconds later, he's thinking, "In the old days, this is when Daredevil, Matt Murdock, my friend, would swoop in and sasve me. But Matt is dead. Daredevil is dead. Damn you, Matt Murdock! The one time I really miss you and it's..." and then he's saved. The least you can do have a cliffhanger agree with the beginning of the next issue. It's utter carelessness.


Ohhhh, that is such a good catch. I'm jealous I missed it. It's classic Bendis, just writing cool sounding but mostly meaningless words over images.
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Francesco
Underboss


Joined: 08 Jun 2006
Posts: 1307

PostPosted: Tue May 10, 2016 11:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mike Murdock wrote:
Someone refresh my memory. What happened to Leap Frog in Wake Up?


The Leapfrog in wake up is Timmy's abusive father (last name Lange), a two bit thug who had found the Leapfrog suit. Timmy had some sort of autism-like contition due to his dad's abusive behavior.
Daredevil was fighting this Leapfrog on the rooftop of Timmy's (and Leapfrog's) house. Leapfrog had managed to knock DD on the ground and was pounding on him with a pipe. Timmy intervened and to stop his dad electrocuted him with a live cable that was lying on the ground, saving DD's life. Timmy's father was knocked unconscious and fell on a garbage truck, but survived. Timmy was left into Ben's custody.
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Francesco
Underboss


Joined: 08 Jun 2006
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PostPosted: Wed May 11, 2016 10:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Daredevil and Bullet fought!
It was crazy!
Yeah, I'm telling you, they fought.
Crazy.
So they fought?
Yeah, it was crazy.
So in place of the fight we get five pages of Timmy and Ben dialoguing like brain damaged people?
Yeah, crazy...

Seriously, Timmy repeats "it was crazy" at least three times.
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james castle
Devil in Cell-Block D


Joined: 30 Jul 2004
Posts: 1999
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PostPosted: Thu May 12, 2016 11:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I haven't edited my post but I thought about it and Black Widow's redheaded daughter is almost definitely Matt's child right? Well, at the very least the guy with the sunglasses in the picture with Foggy and the girl and Black Widow is definitely Matt because if it isn't why exactly is Black Widow hanging out with Foggy?

The picture is either:

    Foggy, his wife and their kid hanging out with Matt (i.e. Foggy's partner), Black Widow and their kid or;

    Foggy, his wife and their kid hanging out with Black Widow (for some reason), her unnamed husband and their kid?


It's almost certainly the first one right? Which would bring the illegitimate kid count to 6.
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Mike Murdock
Golden Age


Joined: 08 Sep 2014
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PostPosted: Thu May 12, 2016 4:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think it's safe to assume every red haired kid is at least hinted to be Matt's.
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Dayle88
Playing to the Camera


Joined: 25 Mar 2015
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PostPosted: Thu May 12, 2016 5:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Views on the amount of children and Typhoid's particular situation aside are people against Matt having kids in general?
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james castle
Devil in Cell-Block D


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PostPosted: Thu May 12, 2016 6:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dayle88 wrote:
Views on the amount of children and Typhoid's particular situation aside are people against Matt having kids in general?


Other than X-Men having children who are lost/found/returned in/in/from the time stream or alternate universes I don't love the idea of superhero characters having children just because it messes with their timeless/ageless quality. Matt with a kid is very different from Matt without a kid.

That said, in some "what if?" or future timeline scenario I could definitely see Matt having a kid. Especially with Karen or Milla (had Smith and Brubaker not fridged them) or Natasha (pre-her becoming a cool Avenger). I feel like most people may want him to have a kid with Elektra but I think that's maybe too cheesy.

The funny thing is that Matt having a kid (again in some what if) is interesting because his character is so wrapped up with his parents. It would be cool if someone explored his relationship with his father. Although, preferably without having to use the phrase "diddled me".

I think him having sex and accidentally impregnating and then abandoning a mentally ill women is probably a no go though.
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Dimetre
Underboss


Joined: 16 Feb 2006
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PostPosted: Thu May 12, 2016 7:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

james castle wrote:
Dayle88 wrote:
Views on the amount of children and Typhoid's particular situation aside are people against Matt having kids in general?


Other than X-Men having children who are lost/found/returned in/in/from the time stream or alternate universes I don't love the idea of superhero characters having children just because it messes with their timeless/ageless quality. Matt with a kid is very different from Matt without a kid.

That said, in some "what if?" or future timeline scenario I could definitely see Matt having a kid. Especially with Karen or Milla (had Smith and Brubaker not fridged them) or Natasha (pre-her becoming a cool Avenger). I feel like most people may want him to have a kid with Elektra but I think that's maybe too cheesy.

The funny thing is that Matt having a kid (again in some what if) is interesting because his character is so wrapped up with his parents. It would be cool if someone explored his relationship with his father. Although, preferably without having to use the phrase "diddled me".

I think him having sex and accidentally impregnating and then abandoning a mentally ill women is probably a no go though.

I think I could accept Matt becoming a father. I don't have a problem with comic book characters having children. I didn't have a problem with Damian Wayne. I actually liked when Selena Kyle became a mother. I felt it gave her stories a newfound urgency. Too bad DC sucks, and got rid of both kids.

I just feel I need to state, once again, that Natasha, along with other graduates of the Red Room, can't bear children. It's not just a cinematic universe thing. Perhaps this is something Bendis and Mack overlooked -- although Bendis has had a long tenure writing Avengers -- or maybe that isn't Natasha's kid.
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Francesco
Underboss


Joined: 08 Jun 2006
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PostPosted: Sat May 14, 2016 4:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

james castle wrote:

I think him having sex and accidentally impregnating and then abandoning a mentally ill women is probably a no go though.


About that... how old is Milla's son supposed to be? Six or seven? That would mean that, since ten years or so have passed... that he had sex with Milla when she was in the insane asylum or right after she was cured?
Can you imagine? "oh, hi Milla, I heard you are okay now. Say, I'm on a tour of f***ing and then abandoning every single one of my love interests who are still alive, plus Black Widow. How does that sound to you?"
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