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DD Book Club - Out
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james castle
Devil in Cell-Block D


Joined: 30 Jul 2004
Posts: 1999
Location: Toronto, Ontario

PostPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2016 11:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Out "Plot" Part 3

1. Agent Driver, Henry and Mr. Davis review the evidence that Matt Murdock is Daredevil in light of Silke telling them that he heard third hand that Matt is Daredevil. Mr. Davis tells them not to tell anyone.

2. Henry, who has a distrustful (?) wife, goes to hang out outside Mattā€™s place. He sees Black Widow up on the rooftop. He think about it and his wife for a bit and then he tells the paper that heā€™s heard that Matt is Daredevil.

3. Unbelievably the paper prints this unconfirmed anonymous story and it's on the front cover of the next dayā€™s paper.

4. Foggy and Matt both find out and talk about what it means. Foggy suggest Matt quit.

5. Over at the Daily Bugle J.Jonah Jameson is all mad that they didnā€™t get the scoop (that was in the news just weeks before?). Ben and Peter tell JJ that Matt isnā€™t Daredevil and Ben is (not?) fired. Ben and Peter talk about Matt.

6. Back at Mattā€™s place Matt and Foggy are still talking. Foggy says that being Daredevil has created a circle of violence that has resulted in two of Mattā€™s girlfriendā€™s being killed. Weirdly neither Foggy nor Matt are like ā€œyeah, but one came backā€¦.so itā€™s only one really?ā€.

7. Outside a redheaded lady says some cliche things that neighbors always say to reporters. She also says a sort of insulting thing about handicapped people being pleasant.

8. Matt suits up and lurks over the shoulders of the reporters.
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The Overlord
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2016 2:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dimetre wrote:
Quote:
His life is in shambles ā€” now Daredevil has to pick up the pieces

In this startling issue, Matt Murdock must come to terms with an anger that threatens to consume him! Can his friends Ben Urich and Peter Parker help? Find out as the Bendis/Maleev era steamrolls on!

This issue is supposed to be startling? This action is supposed to resemble a steamroller? Pfft.

There is no action in this issue. None. Sure Maleev draws pretty images of Daredevil jumping around, but that's just to fool you into thinking there's action, but don't be fooled. This issue consists of two dialogue-weighted scenes. That's it. Two scenes, and those scenes are just talking.

At this point I have to wonder if Bendis has any understanding of what the strengths of this medium are. You can do amazing things with sequential art. Some wonderful stories have been told with this medium. But it's a visual medium. Bendis is writing something better conceived as a radio play. He is not employing this medium anywhere near its potential.

As far as this radio play goes, I suppose the scene at the Bugle would be interesting. Jameson is such a blowhard in this scene. However, I kind of prefer how he was written by Miller during Born Again. In that story he had faith in the Bugle, and in Ben Urich. He was tough, but Miller was probably the first writer of whom I'm aware that showed Jameson's positive traits. In this issue, Jameson is one-dimensional. It's in line with how Stan Lee wrote him, and how J.K. Simmons' portrayed him, but maybe he's even more of a petulant child here.

Also, if Peter doesn't work at the Bugle anymore, than how did he know this meeting was going to happen. I imagine that Jameson called everyone into the boardroom the second he saw the cover of the Globe. It couldn't have been scheduled; it must have been impromptu. Peter couldn't have known, yet he just happens by, stopping in the boardroom at the exact right moment, and then he just leaves. And Jameson doesn't even notice he's in there? How does that work?

The only thing this scene establishes is that Ben and Peter both now know that the other one knows Matt is Daredevil, and Ben is on thin ice at the Bugle. It doesn't take ten pages to give us that information (unless you're Brian Michael Bendis). Any other creative team could make those points in one page -- two if you want to stretch out. But Bendis... so many trees killed.

As for the remainder of the issue, I don't know what to say. Why do we need any of it? The "cliffhanger" of the last issue had Foggy suggesting it might be time to retire Daredevil. Here he says why. It's exhausting reading this monologue separated into dozens of word balloons. Is it impossible for Bendis to be succinct? It doesn't take all of these pages to talk about a "cycle of violence." Is this such a revolutionary concept? Does Bendis think this is so mind-blowing that he needs all of this space to explain it in as much detail and as repetitively as possible?

Now, I realize that most people who enjoy Bendis, and who defend him on this board, have read his stories collected in trade. I have not. However, even if you're reading the "Out" trade, at some point you have to realize that you're turning a lot of pages without anything happening.

I remember really resenting Maleev's artwork in this issue. It looks like he spent a lot of time drawing these pretty pictures of Daredevil jumping around, but they have nothing to do with the conversation. Or he's jumping around, remembering the conversation he had with Foggy. But the focus isn't on the jumping around. It's on the conversation. The jumping around is just there to make it look like there's action, but this issue is just two conversations. It's like Bendis showed Stuart Moore the script, and Moore (for once) made a suggestion. "We need Daredevil jumping around or something." So Bendis retooled it, so he's jumping around remembering the conversation, instead of the conversation just happening. It's cheap, and I would go even further and say it's misrepresentation. Steamroller indeed.

Any other creative team would have used four pages to do what Bendis and Maleev did in this entire issue.

1 out of 5.


I am pretty sure Jameson was shown to have positive traits in Spider-Man comics before his appearance in Born Again, pride in his son, patriotism and a willingness to stand up to gangsters. I also think even before Born Again, Jameson has shown a willingness to stand up for his employees when it counted.

I do think sometimes people assume that a character only became well written when Miller got a hold of them, sure he strengthen the characters of DD, Bullseye and Kingpin, but they did have good stories before Miller wrote them. I also think Garth Ennis did more strengthen the Punisher then Miller did.

Anyway, I don't think Jameson is out of character here, Jameson never liked costumed vigilantes who operate outside the law, he always had a grudge against them, if he doesn't like Spidey for that reason, why would he be forgiving to DD? Just because Jameson is willing to stand up to gangsters like Kingpin, doesn't mean he will give any costumed vigilante he doesn't like a bye.

Anyway I thought some of the dialogue in this issue was fun, though I thought it was foolish that both Ben and Peter admitted knowing who DD is in front of Jameson. But this was another talking head issue and you could have streamlined this issue with the last one and made for a stronger story. I know this is a talking head story arc, but I there was more interesting character stuff that we could have explored by now.

But I kinda liked the meeting at the Bugle, despite some the logical flaws mentioned in this thread and I felt the conservation between Foggy and Matt was kinda raw, so I kinda enjoyed that. But streamlining those scenes and allowing for other character stuff would have helped.

In the end though, I will give this issue 2 and a half stars, some decent stuff happened, but the slow pace left this issue feeling mediocre. I still stick by my opinion that Out is the most dull of Bendis' DD arcs, despite it being something that will affect DD for the next 15 years.
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Mike Murdock
Golden Age


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 04, 2016 10:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Daredevil Vol. 2 #35 - I'm Not Afraid of You



Quote:
After helping Spidey mop up Mr. Hyde, Matt calls a press conference to clear up the allegations that he is, in fact, DD


The sad thing is, I didn't even find the original solicit for this one, but the entire plot summary comes off as pretty vague as well.

Due 12/10
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Dimetre
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 04, 2016 4:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't like Brian Michael Bendis' writing.

However, I'm not asking him to transform into 1980s Frank Miller. I like writers to be themselves. I just assume that Bendis has read "Born Again". I don't think Matt shed a single tear throughout that entire story, and he lost everything. In "Out" his secret identity is threatened (for at least the third time) and he's weeping like an overflowing bathtub. At least by the end of this issue he makes a decision as to how he'll deal with this, but up until then Matt has been dithering for three issues.

I think Bendis may have been attempting poetry here. How else to explain all the repetition. "I am not afraid of you." "Center and focus." It looks like poetry, but I think it's just Bendis' attempt at appearing poetic. I did like the head turn that steers Matt out of his pity party.

As always, scenes consume way too many panels. The mugging of the woman is a perfect example. Going into the scene, we already know Matt has heard the woman scream. Matt is a superhero, and superheroes stop muggings, so there is really no need to spend the entire next page showing the muggers attacking the woman.

The next page was confusing for me. The mugging is taking place in a dark alleyway, and one of the muggers is running toward a yellow opening. The next panel shows the mugger smashing into the counter inside a diner, and the way he's hitting the counter doesn't make any sense. It doesn't seem like Matt threw him onto the counter. It doesn't even look like the counter is in front of the doorway.

I guess the moment I've always remembered from this issue is when the one guy asks Daredevil what colour his shirt is. Is Matt tempted to hit the guy? Or was he going to feel his shirt? Who knows? It's a very awkward moment.

Wasn't the Moondance diner where Mary-Jane briefly worked in Spider-Man 2?

One thing that drove me crazy throughout Bendis' run was how nobody takes Daredevil's villains seriously. Here we see Mr. Hyde bashing a van against Matt's home, and everyone in the media treats him like a joke. Spider-Man and Daredevil beat him rather easily, and then they both swing away from the press. What did this scene add to the story? Was it just an excuse to put a supervillain in this issue and to have Spidey on the cover? That must be it, because the story could have kept going without this scene.

It takes Matt 26 more days to make a decision as to how to handle this (which, again, has happened to him at least two times before).

This issue didn't annoy me as much as the previous one. However, Bendis' pacing is still awful, and Maleev can't draw action at all. My major complaint is how much of a wuss Matt is being. He's my hero and a character for whom I have the utmost respect, but here he talks about how his world is falling apart, and he's being so indecisive. I think Bendis transformed Matt into a reactive character, and Matt didn't revert to being proactive until Waid started writing in Volume 3.

2 out of 5.
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Mike Murdock
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 04, 2016 8:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I pointed out that Matt's basically having a breakdown. It's weird. Miller did it in basically an issue, but it felt like there were more events leading up to it, so this feels more rushed. That being said, it's worth keeping that in mind in explaining his actions (which are, otherwise, unexplainable).

I do like the "they always say their name" moment. It's very anti-superhero comics Bendis, but it's worth a chuckle. I also like Spider-Man showing up. It gives a sense that Matt isn't in this alone. He has the help of others.

I also do like the cliffhanger here. It's been building for way too long, but it does lead to tension. In retrospect, I know what happens next, but I can feel the suspense hanging in the air.

I'm going Four Stars. I think the second half of the issue strengthens it to help make up for its shortcomings. It's obviously still a thin story (hence the lack of anything I'm writing about it), but this was an improvement, imo.
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Dimetre
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2016 7:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mike Murdock wrote:
I pointed out that Matt's basically having a breakdown. It's weird. Miller did it in basically an issue, but it felt like there were more events leading up to it, so this feels more rushed. That being said, it's worth keeping that in mind in explaining his actions (which are, otherwise, unexplainable).

I think over the years it's become accepted to justify Matt's actions around this time through this "breakdown." However, is this really a breakdown? What is a breakdown anyway? Re-reading this comics, it simply feels like indecision leading to inaction. It's possible that it can be called depression, and we've seen him depressed before. But we've also seen him be decisive and proactive before and since.

It's possible that at this point in the story that the loss of Karen is influencing his mood, and I can't remember of Foggy suggested that during his filibuster in the previous issue, but it's also possible that his mood is simply due to the Globe headline. It's left open for us to interpret. I guess some readers like that, but I think it's leaving a little too much unanswered.

I also think that this "breakdown" was used as an excuse to justify too much out-of-character behaviour.
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Mike Murdock
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2016 11:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think him taking off his mask right in front of all the cameras was suggestive of a breakdown. He's not thinking at all and is almost in a fugue state.

I don't recall if Foggy mentioned Karen yet, but I know it comes up at some point related to this whole mess.
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The Overlord
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Joined: 22 Aug 2004
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 07, 2016 11:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dimetre wrote:
I don't like Brian Michael Bendis' writing.

However, I'm not asking him to transform into 1980s Frank Miller. I like writers to be themselves. I just assume that Bendis has read "Born Again". I don't think Matt shed a single tear throughout that entire story, and he lost everything. In "Out" his secret identity is threatened (for at least the third time) and he's weeping like an overflowing bathtub. At least by the end of this issue he makes a decision as to how he'll deal with this, but up until then Matt has been dithering for three issues.

I think Bendis may have been attempting poetry here. How else to explain all the repetition. "I am not afraid of you." "Center and focus." It looks like poetry, but I think it's just Bendis' attempt at appearing poetic. I did like the head turn that steers Matt out of his pity party.

As always, scenes consume way too many panels. The mugging of the woman is a perfect example. Going into the scene, we already know Matt has heard the woman scream. Matt is a superhero, and superheroes stop muggings, so there is really no need to spend the entire next page showing the muggers attacking the woman.

The next page was confusing for me. The mugging is taking place in a dark alleyway, and one of the muggers is running toward a yellow opening. The next panel shows the mugger smashing into the counter inside a diner, and the way he's hitting the counter doesn't make any sense. It doesn't seem like Matt threw him onto the counter. It doesn't even look like the counter is in front of the doorway.

I guess the moment I've always remembered from this issue is when the one guy asks Daredevil what colour his shirt is. Is Matt tempted to hit the guy? Or was he going to feel his shirt? Who knows? It's a very awkward moment.

Wasn't the Moondance diner where Mary-Jane briefly worked in Spider-Man 2?

One thing that drove me crazy throughout Bendis' run was how nobody takes Daredevil's villains seriously. Here we see Mr. Hyde bashing a van against Matt's home, and everyone in the media treats him like a joke. Spider-Man and Daredevil beat him rather easily, and then they both swing away from the press. What did this scene add to the story? Was it just an excuse to put a supervillain in this issue and to have Spidey on the cover? That must be it, because the story could have kept going without this scene.

It takes Matt 26 more days to make a decision as to how to handle this (which, again, has happened to him at least two times before).

This issue didn't annoy me as much as the previous one. However, Bendis' pacing is still awful, and Maleev can't draw action at all. My major complaint is how much of a wuss Matt is being. He's my hero and a character for whom I have the utmost respect, but here he talks about how his world is falling apart, and he's being so indecisive. I think Bendis transformed Matt into a reactive character, and Matt didn't revert to being proactive until Waid started writing in Volume 3.

2 out of 5.


Well at least something happened in this issue, a super villain attack, but it meant nothing, it added nothing to the plot and was not an exciting action scene.

I notice a problem with some B-list Marvel villains, writers can't decide whether they are legitimate threats or a joke. I have seen Hyde get even more humiliating beat downs then the one DD gave him here, but I have seen plenty of stories that treated him like a legitimate threat: the 90s DD story where Hyde was on trial for a crime he did not commit, his actions in the Siege of the Avengers Mansion story, the Peter David Spider-Man story from the last decade and that story where he tried to blow up NYC just to kill Cobra.

I kinda wish all the writers would treat Hyde with respect and have someone like Man-Bull be a dumb thug villain who is easily defeated.

Again I think there was a missed opportunity not showing more villains react to DD's outing, have some of his villains hanging out in the Bar With No Name and discuss this turn of events, that would have been an interesting character building issue, rather then what we got for the last couple of issues.

I wonder if this story would have been better with a B plot where DD deals with a generic villain through out this story and that informs this story, acting like a framing device. That at least shows DD being proactive in some way. This story just seems like random stuff happening.

The Mr. Hyde thing was the most interesting thing that happened, despite the fact it was not very impressive. Spider-Man shows up for a pointless cameo, it would have been more interesting and character building if they had a conversation about recent events.

DD taking off mask and ranting to himself just out of eye shot of the press makes him seem crazy. He stopped a mugging, which was fine. The conversation between Ben Urich and Matt was okay. But besides that, nothing much happened.

I give this issue 2 stars.
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Mike Murdock
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 11, 2016 9:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Overlord wrote:

I notice a problem with some B-list Marvel villains, writers can't decide whether they are legitimate threats or a joke. I have seen Hyde get even more humiliating beat downs then the one DD gave him here, but I have seen plenty of stories that treated him like a legitimate threat: the 90s DD story where Hyde was on trial for a crime he did not commit, his actions in the Siege of the Avengers Mansion story, the Peter David Spider-Man story from the last decade and that story where he tried to blow up NYC just to kill Cobra.

I kinda wish all the writers would treat Hyde with respect and have someone like Man-Bull be a dumb thug villain who is easily defeated.


Honestly, Mr. Hyde would be more interesting as someone who's smarter. Maybe the formula affects his intelligence, but he invented that formula. He's clearly a scientific genius. If it pops up on Marvel Unlimited, I'd love to do the trial of Mr. Hyde story. Really, some I'd like to do more 90s in general.

Next up:

Daredevil Vol. 2 #36 - One Hundred Percent Untrue



Quote:
Guest-starring Luke Cage!


I've been trying to track down the original solicits because all the other synopses seemed too spoilery. I guess this is the opposite of that.

Due 12/17
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I'd give the Devil benefit of law, for my own safety's sake!
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Dimetre
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Joined: 16 Feb 2006
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 11, 2016 5:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mike Murdock wrote:
If it pops up on Marvel Unlimited, I'd love to do the trial of Mr. Hyde story.

I'd be up for that as well.
Mike Murdock wrote:
Next up:

Daredevil Vol. 2 #36 - One Hundred Percent Untrue



Quote:
Guest-starring Luke Cage!

As Bendis Daredevil issues go, this one isn't that bad. It has its problems, but it's better than the last couple of issues.

I have my hang-up about Matt's choice to sue a newspaper for $400 million for printing a story he knows is true, but whatever. Bendis chose to have Matt do that.

Matt says, "I will not be publicly discussing this matter further until the suit is settled," and the only other thing we see him do in this issue is discuss the matter over the phone. I guess discussing a matter over the phone doesn't count as public?

What was the point of using an entire page for Natasha's taxi ride? Why did she do that? She was already in disguise.

Natasha has come a long way in the comics. She's employed as cheesecake in this issue, and it makes me admire how seriously she's been written in her current series by Mark Waid and Chris Samnee, along with her previous series by Nathan Edmunson and Phil Noto. Her lack of regard for Matt's predicament is alarming. She likes having him jump around rooftops with her, and that's all that matters.

So she flusters Foggy over his "cycle of violence" philosophy, and comes to the conclusion that everything Foggy said to Matt was purely out of Foggy's own self-interest. I don't completely agree with her. I think a lot of what he said was out of genuine concern for Matt, but that doesn't matter. Bendis wants us to think Natasha's right, so she's right.

The scene with Vanessa was well done. It's so funny that we're re-reading this comic now, because wait 'til you see who bought Fisk Towers! Maleev's use of shadow and candlelight is gorgeous. Can someone tell me what the painting over the table is? It looks religious, but I don't know why the Fisks would have a painting like that.

I don't like when Matt turns his head towards a sound. Why would he do that? Here, he cranes his neck upward, as if to look toward the rooftop. In reality, Matt Murdock wouldn't do that. It would be better if we had an internal monologue stating he senses a presence on the rooftop.

It's funny, but I had sort of forgot about this guest star on the last page. There's probably a reason why I forgot about it...

The scene with Vanessa rescues this issue for me, even if Bendis' has horribly misused her character. I still have big problems with Matt's lawsuit against the Globe, and I thought the Black Widow, I character who is one of Marvel's greatest these days, is ridiculous here. Luke Cage's presence here amounts to nothing. It didn't annoy me as much as the last couple, so I give this issue a grade right down the middle: 2.5 out of 5.
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Mike Murdock
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 12, 2016 9:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This issue is famous for the opening speech. I like how it sets itself up to go either way. It's usually the "but I'm also Daredevil" type one. I'm reading it in my Bendis Ultimate Collection, so they're actually side by side, but I would imagine it was originally spaced so you had to turn the page. It's obviously drawn out (that first page wasn't really all that necessary), but this pacing was important (although it's like three issues of pacing at this point, so less so). Obviously, Matt is stuck in a difficult situation and his decision to deny is understandable. But you can see the lawsuit seems to cross the line and Ben Urich feels shame (as a reporter, he probably abhors taking the livelihood of a journalist in order to keep one's secret).

Maleev draws some gratuitous shots of Black Widow - like Joe Quesada in Guardian Devil gratuitous. I do like her introduction when she waltzes in and takes off her clothes (well, her disguise at least). Then again, the whole scene feels a little gratuitous. Tasha comes off as antsy to have fun with Matt. There doesn't really seem to be any other pressing reason to have Daredevil go out at night. Which, if this was called "Daredevil and Black Widow" and they were dating in San Francisco, it might make sense. But it doesn't really fit here. At best, it helps Foggy state that Matt is feeling guilty for the deaths of his father, Karen, and Elektra (really, Elektra? Once again, she's alive right now. There are plenty of other girlfriends Matt has had that are still dead). It does help paint another side of things - Matt seems to be firmly under Foggy's control in this decision to fight the outing and file the lawsuit. In fact, Foggy comes off as a bit selfish here (at least, they both do).

The last few pages are fine. It continues the story along. In fact, Venessa leaving, giving him the name of the FBI agent, foreshadowing that some other supervillain will take over for the Kingpin (no, not Donald Trump Wink ), and seeing Elektra on the roof are actual legitimate plot development in a reasonable period of time.

Overall, the plot continues. I like the beginning and I like the end. This feels like a lot of setup for what's to come. But we're five issues in, which is too late for setup. I'll give it Three and a Half Stars.
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The Overlord
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 14, 2016 12:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mike Murdock wrote:



Honestly, Mr. Hyde would be more interesting as someone who's smarter. Maybe the formula affects his intelligence, but he invented that formula. He's clearly a scientific genius. If it pops up on Marvel Unlimited, I'd love to do the trial of Mr. Hyde story. Really, some I'd like to do more 90s in general.


There have been stories where Mr. Hyde has been written as an intelligent villain.

In the Peter David Spider-Man story, Hyde was kidnapping homeless people and trying to recreate the incident that gave Spider-man his powers after Spidey revealed his ID after Civil War. Also in the story where Hyde tried to blow up NYC to kill Cobra, he was fairly clever, coming up with the plan to destroy NYC and manipulating Batroc into helping. I also think Mr. Hyde was fairly intelligent in the

Some writers write Hyde as cunning, others write him as an idiot, I think the best of both worlds to his write him as clever, but short tempered. He can be goaded into abandoning his schemes with some taunting, but he is capable creating some sinister schemes before that point.

I would like to review the trail of Hyde story though.

Mike Murdock wrote:

Next up:

Daredevil Vol. 2 #36 - One Hundred Percent Untrue



Quote:
Guest-starring Luke Cage!


I've been trying to track down the original solicits because all the other synopses seemed too spoilery. I guess this is the opposite of that.

Due 12/17


Anyway, my thoughts on this issue:

This is more talking heads stuff.

Matt does a press conference to deny he is DD and sue the Globe for saying he is, despite the fact that is morally dubious, because they are telling the truth.

Black Widow shows up and does some cheese cake poses. She also says Matt needs to go out and beat up random bad guys. Here is the problem with that, Matt is clearly dealing with a million things at the moment and there seems to be no real major threat plaguing the city at the moment, so what does Black Widow need his help with? Does she think it would be therapeutic for Matt to go out as DD and beat some random muggers? If DD had been dealing with some villain ongoing basis, then BW would have a valid point, but its hard to argue the city needs DD, when the story doesn't present him with an ongoing threat to deal with, rather then easily defeated muggers and super villains.

Black Widow seems to suggest Foggy is being selfish for suggesting Matt give up being DD, which I think is more of a complex debate then the story presents it.

Matt having a dinner with Vanessa Fisk in Fisk tower was kinda interesting, though its weird that she is being so friendly here, when she was plotting his downfall in Brubaker's run, but I suppose that is not Bendis' fault. Maybe Vanessa became bitter over Matt's unnecessary jab at her dead son. Though I disagree Dimetre, lots of famous art works are based on religion and I can see Wilson and Vanessa buying something like that. Its also unintentionally funny that Trump buys Fisk towers, I wonder if he planned his campaign there.

Anyway, the only other things that happen is an unnecessary cameo by Luke Cage and a cameo by Elektra to cap off the issue. This issue had too many random cameos, who didn't add much to the story, again this story is random stuff happens.

It needed more of an anchor to work, with a B plot with DD dealing with B-list villain like Mr. Hyde as a framing device for the entire story or doing more and better character related stuff, with more varied reactions from civilians, heroes and villains that make DD's reveal more impactful or a combination of the two.

I have seen an episode of Batman of the animated series deal with other characters reacting and discussing Batman and having a B-list villain as a framing device in 22 minutes. Out is all over the place, it doesn't know if wants to tell a DD story or a story where other characters react to DD. We have had lots of story space where DD doesn't appear and its just FBI agents or the Bugle staff reacting to DD's outing and then suddenly, the story tries to go back to Matt, tell one story or other and either way, give it more meat.

I give this issue 2 and a half stars.
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Mike Murdock
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Joined: 08 Sep 2014
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 18, 2016 11:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Daredevil Vol. 2 #37 - Dancing Between the Raindrops



Quote:
Elektra guest-stars in the stunning conclusion to the epic of the year!


Probably the best titled issue so far.

Due 12/24
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Dimetre
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 18, 2016 6:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The cover plays up Elektra's presence in this issue. The last issue used her appearance as a cliffhanger, but I don't feel like she added much of anything to the story. I can't figure out why Black Widow contacted her. If Natasha thinks Matt is in a funk, that's what she thinks is going to snap him out of it? If my friend was in a funk, does it sound like a good idea to call up the love of his life who he can never be with? It makes no sense. Her appearance here is just a stunt to get fans to buy the issue.

As for what Matt reveals in that scene, it's admirable, but not that surprising. "I know why I'm Daredevil and I know how important it is. And if I want to keep it all -- I just have to fight smarter than I have been. Maybe smarter than I am." It's true to the "never give up" spirit Matt has, but given the way Bendis and Maleev have built this scene, with the intention of getting Matt to open up, I guess I expected something more profound, or at least surprising.

Anyway, I felt Elektra's appearance didn't amount to anything.

I thought the scene with Ingersol was better. Foggy's "Well... no coffee for you" line was genuinely funny. The thing is, I completely agree with Ingersol. I love the free press, and I feel it needs to be protected. I can understand the contempt Ingersol has towards Nelson and Murdock at this moment. Maybe he's being rude with remarks like "fruity costume," but a lawyer representing a newspaper that knows it printed the truth wouldn't have a good attitude going into a meeting like this. And Matt is my hero! I shouldn't be sympathizing with someone who is insulting him. Maybe Bendis is trying to show how much of an ethical mess Matt is in, but the very next scene makes it even worse.

We all know that the FBI agent shouldn't have told the globe Daredevil's secret identity, but I'm very uncomfortable with Matt using intimidation to get him to recant his story.

Bendis said the following in an interview:
Quote:
ā€œMattā€™s an asshole,ā€ Bendis said. ā€œHeā€™s not a nice guy. Thatā€™s the one thing people pretend not to see because technically in the Frank Miller run, Matt was a raging asshole. He was so mean to Heather Glenn it was shocking and heā€™s not very nice to Foggy and he truly loves Foggy, but Foggy is just put into this unbelievable situation, where either youā€™re his friend and this is what you deal with or you leave. There is no being half of Mattā€™s friend. So, Matt looks at this and goes ā€˜Poor Foggy.'ā€
http://www.cbr.com/truth-or-daredevil-bendis-talks-the-end-of-his-daredevil-run/

Never mind that Matt only started treating Heather badly once Elektra re-entered his life and especially in the aftermath of her murder. He was dealing with his private grief over the love of his life, and he wasn't in a place where he could express it to Heather. It shows a huge misunderstanding of who Matt is on the part of Bendis. But he uses that example to justify him having Matt sue the Globe and use intimidation on the FBI agent. I have always thought Matt had higher standards for his own behaviour. Under Bendis' pen, it seems Matt will do anything that will get his aims met. Would Bendis' Daredevil have pulled Bullseye out of the path of that oncoming subway train? I'm not so sure he would.

As for the scene with Rosenthal, I have always hated that scene for similar reasons, but I guess I had forgotten how Matt demanded that half the money go to the National Endowment for the Blind, the other half to the Hell's Kitchen Restoration Society, and that Rosenthal guarantee that there will be no employee layoffs at the Globe for two calendar years. But, again, I can't ignore the fact that Rosenthal did nothing wrong! He's absolutely right. If Matt hadn't gotten the FBI agent to recant his story, Rosenthal would have been doing the very best thing for his paper by defending the story. I find it sad that he's now in a position where he can't prove the story's truth, and that's because Matt, our hero, did something very crooked. I think it's admirable that Rosenthal won't allow himself to be conned.

I think it's worth pointing out that we don't see Matt using the strategy of "fighting smarter" he mentioned during his scene with Elektra. There's nothing smart about what he's doing. I wouldn't call the intimidation of the FBI agent "smart."

Bendis seems to go out of his way on the last few pages to show the people of Hell's Kitchen shouting praise to Daredevil. "Guy's going to take all the crap he takes and still put it out there for the people?"

I guess we're supposed to admire that Matt is still saving lives even though he's dealing with this story in the Globe. That's admirable, I suppose, but if he didn't the adventures of Matt Murdock wouldn't be worth printing.

This entire "arc" is founded upon the premise that the Globe would have published the FBI agent's story, and james castle has already pointed out the absurdity of that premise. What makes "Out" more annoying for me is the snail's pace and how unsympathetic Matt has become in this particular issue.

I give this issue, along with the entirity of "Out" a two out of five.
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Mike Murdock
Golden Age


Joined: 08 Sep 2014
Posts: 1750

PostPosted: Sun Dec 18, 2016 7:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The issue starts off where we left off with Matt encountering Elektra. I like the awkwardness here. I think the relationship that's been lost when Elektra turned cold (and murdery) is a far more interesting discussion than the usual one of Matt being sad that she died when she's not dead. The opening was rushed, I don't think it had a great impact, but there was tenderness there. And Matt clearly wants that tenderness to return. Now I can't say it adds anything. An Elektra/Daredevil story would have made more sense.

The rest of the issue is devoted to the lawsuit. Obviously, the whole lawsuit is shades of gray (at best) and it starts off with Daredevil witness intimidation, which isn't great. After that, he has a huge advantage to force a settlement, but it's fair to say that he's incredibly smug about it. It's hard to view him as particularly likable. I won't go as far as to say it's out of character. He's always been in shades of gray, but it certainly skirts the line. It's the reason why I've argued that it only makes sense if he's still suffering from grief over Karen's death and is trying to control the rest of his life. It's also why I've said that Bendis is a poor start to reading Daredevil because it gives a false impression of the character.

That being said, I like the ending. The mix of inspiration (the public doesn't care who he is, they view him as a hero) with the overlaying text that his secret will be out there and there's nothing that can be done to take it back. It is a big story and I applaud that, even if the execution has been weak and slow so far.

Three and a Half Stars.
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I'd give the Devil benefit of law, for my own safety's sake!
Thomas More - A Man for All Seasons
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