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DD Book Club: Lowlife
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Mike Murdock
Golden Age


Joined: 08 Sep 2014
Posts: 1750

PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2017 9:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This issue starts with date scene between Matt and Milla. I know it's another dragged out scene in a dragged out story, but I actually appreciate the slow burn. They get to have a conversation and we get to appreciate Milla's passions - the fact that she's such a part of Hell's Kitchen. The black and white two-page with the story is somewhat innovative as well and works with the art style. The scene quickly transitions to the police arriving. The slow burn actually helps because the semi-sweet moment genuinely unravels.

I haven't done any legal thoughts for awhile, so I'll comment briefly on one. The police are searching Matt's place. They're telling him he's not under arrest, but that he needs to come with them to the police station. In reality, it's one of two things. He either is under arrest or he doesn't need to come with them. That being said, it's not uncommon for the police to trick people into coming with them. It's just weird in a situation like this because Matt is a lawyer. Now plenty of people aware of these tactics fall victim to them, but he's one who can sense their heartbeats and sense whether they're being dishonest to him. More importantly, he could set an example for Milla (who they have absolutely no cause to take to the police station).

There's a good use of Matt's senses when he hears the police conversation and learns they can't pin anything on him. Even better is an actual genuine moment of friendship between Matt and Foggy when Foggy gets the hint that Matt knows that. Since there's so much hostility, that subtle moment was a nice one.

But if the point of this story is The Owl, he's in the last two pages. He says that Daredevil is out of commission. It isn't really earned but, on the other hand, it doesn't have to be - he's an idiot. But what the hell is the point of this story? I honestly thought the Owl was in it, but it feels I'm remembering that wrong.

Three and a Half Stars. Good character moments, but it doesn't come close to making up for the lack of any real plot development.
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The Overlord
Paradiso


Joined: 22 Aug 2004
Posts: 1095

PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2017 9:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have some mixed feelings about this issue, this had a story and it was interesting, but on the other hand, it had nothing to do with the main story of this arc.

I liked the conversation between Milla and Matt about the history of Hell's Kitchen, I liked the interaction between Matt and Milla, they make for a cute couple, but I did think Milla's musing on the gangs being better in the past then now just seems pretentious and incorrect. I liked the interaction the cops, with some of the cops trying to entrap Murdock, but their boss forcing them to let Matt go and the interaction between Foggy and Matt is a good moment that highlights their friendship. I think its interesting to see Matt having to deal with being framed for the murder of the guy he is suing while dealing with the media fall out from his ID being revealed, but none of this has anything to do with the Owl trying to take over Hell's Kitchen. Owl seemed to be trying to take credit for this and we know that is not the case, so it doesn't make Owl a menacing villain.

I think Bendis' dialogue is pretty good in this issue and I generally like Maleev's art, but it is kinda lazy for to reuse the same panel 4 times in a row.

I still think this arc is more cohesive then Out, at least some interesting things are going on. I will give this issue 3 stars.
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Mike Murdock
Golden Age


Joined: 08 Sep 2014
Posts: 1750

PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2017 10:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Daredevil Vol. 2 # 45 - Lowlife Part 5


Quote:
The conclusion of “Lowlife”!

The Owl makes his big push to take over the NYC underworld in this finale to “Lowlife”.


Due 2/25
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I'd give the Devil benefit of law, for my own safety's sake!
Thomas More - A Man for All Seasons
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Dimetre
Underboss


Joined: 16 Feb 2006
Posts: 1366
Location: Toronto

PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2017 7:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bendis is up to his same old tricks this issue.

Sammy Silke spends two pages telling us things we already know.

Foggy spends three pages saying things Bendis thinks are profound. I don't agree.

But my least favourite thing about this issue is Agent Driver. He is just so smug. He pretty much calls the Owl a loser to his face. If the Owl is a loser, than why are we reading a book called Daredevil. The Owl was the first villain created to be a foe for Daredevil. He doesn't have to be written as a pale Kingpin wannabe. Here, I don't see how he could have been treated with more disrespect.

I don't see what is so clever about belittling a story's antagonist. If the antagonist isn't a threat, why should I be invested in this story? To me, it seems like Bendis is somehow trying to look cool by calling the Owl a loser. "I want you to know that I know that this villain is lame, therefore I'm cool for knowing that." Yeah, thanks. Next time, try writing a good story.

Maleev's artwork was hard to follow. The doctor was holding a lunchbox to contain the Owl's DNA samples. Driver takes it from the doctor. The next thing we see the Owl taking a swipe at Driver, but it looks like he was already holding the lunchbox in his other hand. Driver falls back, but I couldn't make out what was in the background. There was nothing to indicate that Driver was standing in front of a window. So when we see him on the ground, I didn't know he fell into a lower room. When we see the Owl gliding through a window, I thought he was gliding away from the scene, but he lands right near Driver, which was confusing to me. The panel below, the Owl shouts "Move!" to someone who looks like they're smoothing out his jacket.

The way Maleev layed out the encounter between Daredevil and the Owl was just as confusing. It looked like Daredevil was behind the Owl, and then they were facing each other. The Owl's dialogue is just stupid. "I would have made it out of here fuuuaaaagghhh?!! Why I have too deal with idiots like yoooouuuuaagghh!!" And it seems the Owl has no other move than swiping with his fingernails.

It looks like Daredevil kneed the Owl in the balls. That's about the level of grace I expect from Bendis and Maleev. He's one of the most acrobatic fighters in the Marvel Universe, but sure, have him go for the groin.

The panel where Daredevil leaps away from the FBI seems to recycle a popular image of Daredevil that I had in a calendar. I don't know why Maleev used it, other than to save time. The mouth doesn't match the words he's saying. He can't jump that high, and there's no sign of billy club cable. Maybe Bendis and Maleev forgot he can't fly. After all, they previous forgot that he can't overturn a car.

Overall, I find this issue and this entire arc pointless. Probably the best part was Silke's encounter with Fisk, but even then, I had to wonder whether Maleev forgot to draw tears on Silke's cheeks. Every scene had something that didn't work for me.

I give this issue a two out of five. As for "Lowlife" as a whole, I don't think "Lowlife" is a complete story. I don't know what the centre of the story is. It's presented as an Owl story, but the Owl doesn't do much. What is this story about?

And I was just wondering: Why did Kingpin kill Rosenthal? What does he gain by doing that? Did he think it would implicate Matt? If he did, that really didn't work out to well. Fisk is supposed to be a chess champion, but wouldn't it have been smarter for Fisk to leave Rosenthal alone and let the matter continue to play out to Matt's detriment? That sounds like a better strategy to me, and strategy is Kingpin's expertise. What Fisk did makes no sense.
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Mike Murdock
Golden Age


Joined: 08 Sep 2014
Posts: 1750

PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2017 2:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The issue starts seemingly with wrapping up loose ends. First with Sammy Silke, as talkative as ever. The page of build up before the page turn to reveal the Kingpin did build some tension, but it also felt like they just needed to kill a page. Then with Matt trying to salvae his relationship with Milla. There's also a bit of reconciliation between Foggy and Matt for Foggy yelling at him earlier. Unfortunately, it feels like this entire Owl story is another loose end. Matt concludes he's gotta go out on the street to take care of the Owl since the Owl will be making his move with him out of commission.

And wrap up feels like the best description. The FBI more or less does the work due to that throwaway scene earlier where Owlsley killed that guy. Daredevil shows up and arguably does something but only because the plot required him to do it. And he does it in probably the most confusing five pages I've seen in comics history. The art is opaque, the layout is baffling, and the dialogue doesn't even seem to line up with what's happening.

Detective Driver has some fun snappy dialogue when he searches the Owl's place (I particularly liked the "All the Kingpin's men couldn't put a decen kingpin back together again"). He's probably the highlight of the issue. The last line is cool too. Obviously, we already know about it. There isn't a twist of "oh crap, the Kingpin." But I do think it shows that they're setting up that confrontation next time. And, read in real time, we're talking a year and a half to get to this point. I can see people getting excited for what's to come.

I'll go Three and a Half Stars. I honestly remember this whole arc being better. Partly because I remembered The Owl in it. I guess I was mistaken about that. The highlight of the overall story was probably the Milla plot and she isn't really even in this one. I'm fine with an anti-climax if done well, but it's a stretch to say that's what this was.

Dimetre wrote:

But my least favourite thing about this issue is Agent Driver. He is just so smug. He pretty much calls the Owl a loser to his face. If the Owl is a loser, than why are we reading a book called Daredevil. The Owl was the first villain created to be a foe for Daredevil. He doesn't have to be written as a pale Kingpin wannabe. Here, I don't see how he could have been treated with more disrespect.


That's a hallmark of Bendis and it'll just continue. He's made it clear he barely respects any of Matt's villains outside of the Kingpin and, even then, it feels like just barely. The raison d'ĂŞtre from the beginning was to establish a world where superheroes barely fit in and were kind of the joke of the story he's trying to tell.

Quote:
The way Maleev layed out the encounter between Daredevil and the Owl was just as confusing. It looked like Daredevil was behind the Owl, and then they were facing each other. The Owl's dialogue is just stupid. "I would have made it out of here fuuuaaaagghhh?!! Why I have too deal with idiots like yoooouuuuaagghh!!" And it seems the Owl has no other move than swiping with his fingernails.


I'm guessing the aaaagghhh stuff has to do with him getting hit or something? I honestly wasn't sure because the art doesn't seem to line up. At first I almost thought he was overdosing on MGH or something.

Quote:
And I was just wondering: Why did Kingpin kill Rosenthal? What does he gain by doing that? Did he think it would implicate Matt? If he did, that really didn't work out to well. Fisk is supposed to be a chess champion, but wouldn't it have been smarter for Fisk to leave Rosenthal alone and let the matter continue to play out to Matt's detriment? That sounds like a better strategy to me, and strategy is Kingpin's expertise. What Fisk did makes no sense.


I've never really thought about it, but it feels like a bit of him tidying up everything from Sammy Silke. The lawsuit goes away and, with it, any headlines about Matt's secret identity. Maybe I'm wrong. I honestly have no idea.
_________________
Matt Murdock's cooler twin brother

Not sure what to read next? Check out the Book Club for some ideas!

I'd give the Devil benefit of law, for my own safety's sake!
Thomas More - A Man for All Seasons
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The Overlord
Paradiso


Joined: 22 Aug 2004
Posts: 1095

PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2017 11:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dimetre wrote:
Bendis is up to his same old tricks this issue.

Sammy Silke spends two pages telling us things we already know.

Foggy spends three pages saying things Bendis thinks are profound. I don't agree.

But my least favourite thing about this issue is Agent Driver. He is just so smug. He pretty much calls the Owl a loser to his face. If the Owl is a loser, than why are we reading a book called Daredevil. The Owl was the first villain created to be a foe for Daredevil. He doesn't have to be written as a pale Kingpin wannabe. Here, I don't see how he could have been treated with more disrespect.

I don't see what is so clever about belittling a story's antagonist. If the antagonist isn't a threat, why should I be invested in this story? To me, it seems like Bendis is somehow trying to look cool by calling the Owl a loser. "I want you to know that I know that this villain is lame, therefore I'm cool for knowing that." Yeah, thanks. Next time, try writing a good story.

Maleev's artwork was hard to follow. The doctor was holding a lunchbox to contain the Owl's DNA samples. Driver takes it from the doctor. The next thing we see the Owl taking a swipe at Driver, but it looks like he was already holding the lunchbox in his other hand. Driver falls back, but I couldn't make out what was in the background. There was nothing to indicate that Driver was standing in front of a window. So when we see him on the ground, I didn't know he fell into a lower room. When we see the Owl gliding through a window, I thought he was gliding away from the scene, but he lands right near Driver, which was confusing to me. The panel below, the Owl shouts "Move!" to someone who looks like they're smoothing out his jacket.

The way Maleev layed out the encounter between Daredevil and the Owl was just as confusing. It looked like Daredevil was behind the Owl, and then they were facing each other. The Owl's dialogue is just stupid. "I would have made it out of here fuuuaaaagghhh?!! Why I have too deal with idiots like yoooouuuuaagghh!!" And it seems the Owl has no other move than swiping with his fingernails.

It looks like Daredevil kneed the Owl in the balls. That's about the level of grace I expect from Bendis and Maleev. He's one of the most acrobatic fighters in the Marvel Universe, but sure, have him go for the groin.

The panel where Daredevil leaps away from the FBI seems to recycle a popular image of Daredevil that I had in a calendar. I don't know why Maleev used it, other than to save time. The mouth doesn't match the words he's saying. He can't jump that high, and there's no sign of billy club cable. Maybe Bendis and Maleev forgot he can't fly. After all, they previous forgot that he can't overturn a car.

Overall, I find this issue and this entire arc pointless. Probably the best part was Silke's encounter with Fisk, but even then, I had to wonder whether Maleev forgot to draw tears on Silke's cheeks. Every scene had something that didn't work for me.

I give this issue a two out of five. As for "Lowlife" as a whole, I don't think "Lowlife" is a complete story. I don't know what the centre of the story is. It's presented as an Owl story, but the Owl doesn't do much. What is this story about?

And I was just wondering: Why did Kingpin kill Rosenthal? What does he gain by doing that? Did he think it would implicate Matt? If he did, that really didn't work out to well. Fisk is supposed to be a chess champion, but wouldn't it have been smarter for Fisk to leave Rosenthal alone and let the matter continue to play out to Matt's detriment? That sounds like a better strategy to me, and strategy is Kingpin's expertise. What Fisk did makes no sense.


Here's a good question, has Owl ever gotten a great story in the Daredevil comics? It doesn't seem like it, it seems like most writers treat him like a generic throwaway villain, like if they want to do a story with a crime boss, but don't want to use Kingpin again and have someone who is more psycho and less competent. Its like when Batman writers get tired of using the Joker and bring in another Serial Killer villain like Mr. Zsasz. Despite the fact that Owl seems like one of the most reoccurring villains outside of the Miller villains.

I think Bendis has a habit of doing this villains, a lot of villains in Ultimate Spider-Man came off as jokes or generic baddies in that book.

I think the problem with this story is it lacks both a pro active hero and a pro active villain. DD spends too much time sitting around and so does the Owl.

Instead of Owl losing his drug supply due to a random incident with Iron Man, DD should be attacked the lab producing the drugs, gained evidence against Owl and found a way to get it to the FBI. Then the FBI could have came to arrest the Owl and DD would have been proactive in his downfall. Owl could have gone increasing paranoid after DD attacks is fledgling empire and starts making mistakes, which allows

DD was only being proactive against the Owl in the first couple of issues, then the FBI did most of the work against Owl, this really seems like something they could have handled without DD.

Now I will agree with some of your criticisms, the fight between Owl and DD was messy and made no sense and treating Owl like an idiot really didn't do the story any favors. Owl should be brutal, but not stupid.

Now this issue has its moments, there was some good set up for the next story arc, with Kingpin killing Sammy Silke, Matt had an alright conversation with Foggy.

I assume Fisk killed Rosenthal to frame Matt, but yeah, it was a sloppy way for Fisk to do that and it did not make Fisk seem like a chess master.

Anyway I will give this issue 3 stars. This whole arc was a decent Daredevil story, but a lousy Owl story. This story was better then Out, this story was more cohesive, but it still meandered here and there. Its a shame writers always seem to bring Owl back and just use a generic bad guy.
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