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DAREDEVIL #22 Preview, Review and Discussion

 
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What did you think of DAREDEVIL #22?
5
50%
 50%  [ 3 ]
4
16%
 16%  [ 1 ]
3
33%
 33%  [ 2 ]
2
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
1
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
Total Votes : 6

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Kuljit Mithra
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Joined: 29 Jul 2004
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 18, 2017 9:01 pm    Post subject: DAREDEVIL #22 Preview, Review and Discussion Reply with quote

DAREDEVIL #22 by Soule, Sudzuka and Milla ships June 21st and here's a preview:



http://www.manwithoutfear.com/gallery/Daredevil-V5-022

Please use this thread for all discussion when the issue ships!
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Mike Murdock
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 8:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was a bit fan of Charles Soule's She-Hulk run when he started name dropping legal jargon. This is pretty much the same except in the criminal law field, which is closer to my wheelhouse. That being said, I don't really know confidential informant stuff except generically. I feel I should take notes for the future. I think there's an editing error where defense and prosecution are flipped, unless I'm mistaken, though. I do love that Matt is helpless in the witness chair. He doesn't get to make these decisions, he's just forced to wait and see. I don't think as much as there was would be in front of the jury, though.

The fight was fun. I have to say I laughed out loud with the gavel thing. Although, I feel there were pretty strong grounds for a mistrial. As a continuity nerd, I'm trying to remember the last time this came up in a Daredevil case. I think it was Playing to the Camera, but I can't remember how it was dealt with.

Four Stars. I think someone who is less of a legal nerd might like it less, though.

PS, I just realized that the title Supreme is because the trial court in New York is known as the Supreme Court.
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Dimetre
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 25, 2017 1:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Finally got around to picking this up and reading it, three days after it came out.

First off, I really like the cover by Mike Deodato Jr. and Frank Martin. Deodato draws such dynamic figures.

The entire first page is a monologue by the judge. It's good, but I don't think this judge is ever referred to as anything but "the judge" and "Your Honor." I felt, with an opening like this, we were setting him up to become a major character. He's an important part to this story, but I'll be surprised if we ever meet him again.

I was annoyed to read Matt's thoughts about wearing the red suit as a "stunt." "Go for the razzle-dazzle." Am I alone in hoping that the cover of #20 suggested a retiring of the black suit? If the black suit wasn't going to be retired, why use that cover image? But no, we still have the black suit, and the cover for #23 shows him wearing black again. And -- this is important -- Soule has never given us an explanation for why he started wearing black. You'd think Marvel was still owned by ToyBiz, and they just wanted to market a new action figure, but that isn't the case. I'm hoping he goes back to wearing red full-time, because that's his classic look, and the black hearkens too closely to the Shadowland disaster. But, come on Soule, at least tell us what led to the costume change. Maybe that will let me appreciate the black suit more.

I really did think it was funny that Matt had to stop the judge from calling him "Mr. Devil." You could tell Matt wasn't going to be able to endure much more of that.

Now, I'm not a legal expert by any stretch. I enjoyed the part of the story dealing with the response brief. However, I was kind of puzzled with Baden's shock over who composed it. Would someone with Baden's ego and standing be that intimidated by Matt? I suppose it's possible, but we have no prior knowledge of the Baden/Murdock rivalry. Setting up this revelation of who composed the brief just leads to a somewhat hollow outcome. I love Daredevil's grin though.

Soule did a nice job building suspense over the judge's decision as to whether Daredevil had to unmask. However, as I typed last issue, it would have been absolutely horrible to have Matt unmask publicly after the genie had been finally put back in the lamp at the beginning of Volume 5. Reading the two pages where the judge and lawyers were conferring in the chamber was more like praying the creative team was going to avoid disaster than wondering if Daredevil was going to have to unmask.

Baden challenging Daredevil to prove his identity did indeed remind me of "Playing To The Camera," however, I think this is an improvement. In Bob Gale's story, Matt simply recruited Peter Parker to pretend to be Daredevil on the stand. Peter did a flip, and that seemed to be enough proof to the court that he was Daredevil (although any elite gymnast could have done that). Here, Baden challenges every strategy Daredevil tries to use to prove his identity. Matt talks about a phone conversation a woman is having outside the courtroom, and tells Baden to check. "She could have been planted. Not that I'm accusing you of such a thing, but it's hardly proof." Then, Matt tells Baden what he had for lunch, and Matt knows he's right. Before Baden can deny it, Matt warns him about lying in court. It's a great bit, because it's two smart rival characters pushing each other to their professional limits. And just when you think Matt has him, Baden finds a way to wriggle out of it.

That's why it's almost disappointing when Ammo, Black Powder, Tracer and Steeljacket burst into the courtroom. It felt kind of cliche. Yes, we got some superheroics from Daredevil, and I did find the gavel tossing funny.

Which makes me wonder, why didn't Matt use his billy club? Would he have had to check it in with security on his way in? That's believable, but why didn't Soule mention that?

I can see what Mike Murdock is talking about with grounds for a mistrial, but I guess that's the judge's call.

I found myself surprised that we got none of Daredevil's testimony. There was so much build up to it, after all. I guess the most important thing was the outcome.

But, Matt said this was going to put an end to crime in New York. That's how he put it. What this does is set a legal precedent where superheroes are allowed to testify in costume without having to surrender their secret identity. While that's an important legal development, who would ever say that "stops crime in New York"? The only superheroes who would ever be allowed to testify unmasked would be ones with glittering reputations. Here is why this issue's judge allowed Daredevil to testify while wearing a mask:
Quote:
We know his powers and his long-standing stance against crime. He has helped this city and this world in countless ways. Various courts have affirmed the idea that under certain circumstances, witnesses can offer confidential testimony -- the seventh circuit, even the U.S. Supreme Court. In my view, Daredevil satisfies these conditions.

If a hero with a more tainted public reputation, like Spider-Man, were to try to testify while wearing a mask, it's very likely the judge would be less charitable and disallow it. So, yes this sets a precedent, but it doesn't do much more, and it hardly "stops crime in New York."

And that's a problem, because the payoff is less than the build-up promised. Soule has had difficulty ending his stories in a satisfying way throughout Volume 5, and this is no different.

I wouldn't go so far as to call this issue bad. It isn't. It's a great legal drama interrupted by some generic villains. Baden and the judge are great characters who I would like to see again. But it doesn't deliver on what was promised. I give this issue a three out of five.
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Rand
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 03, 2017 10:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

First off, two no-doubts-about-it errors:

Page 5:

BADEN: "You Honor, if I may."

That should read "Your Honor..."

Page 7:

JUDGE: "I hate to say it, Mr Baden, but it looks like the defense anticipated every argument you were going to make."

That should read "...the prosecution anticipated..."

Now, neither of these errors are show-stopping, by any means, but... Daredevil double-shipped this month. Maybe don't double-ship a book if you don't have time to edit two issues??
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Rand
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 03, 2017 10:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Following that, a few feel-free-to-quibble complaints:

Page 4: DD's motivation for putting the red suit back on (during this trial) is its "razzle-dazzle"?

Considering how much drama ensues over the contention that "anyone can put on a suit" (as noted by the Judge himself on Page 11), I would think that Matt would at least wear the "right" suit: i.e., his black one.

Page 4 (again): Incredibly minor complaint, but since Soule decided to create a new underworld character named Slug, I wish that he'd had Matt -- either this issue or last issue -- lampshade (via narration) the fact that there's already a different underworld character named Slug, albeit "no relation".

Page 7: I could've done without the garish accent coloration on the panel depicting Baden's reaction.

Page 12: Everyone in the Marvel U seems to forget, whenever convenient, that mutant psychics exist.

DAREDEVIL: "Out in the lobby, there's a woman on her cell."

BADEN: "She could have been planted."

ME: "Or this dude dressed as Daredevil could be some other super-powered man: specifically, a psychic."

This same argument applies to the back-and-forth over what Baden had for lunch. Could it be DD's super-senses? Sure. Could it just be a private eye tailing Baden around? You bet.

But it could also be that we have some psychic mutant dressed as Daredevil. Who's to say? Just a couple storylines ago in this very series, we were introduced to such a psychic!

"Fortunately", we're prevented from dwelling on this line of thinking as "the Clip" makes their entrance.

Page 14: Another really minor complaint, but -- speaking of the Clip making their entrance -- was no one in the courtroom aware that danger was headed their way until DD shouted "Everyone get down!"?

I think it's safe to assume that the NY Supreme Court has armed guards posted at every entrance. Wouldn't the arrival of the four heavily-armed members of the Clip have triggered a shoot-out -- or at least the raising of some general alarm -- as soon as they entered the courthouse itself? It's not like they made any attempt to disguise who they were! And yet -- seemingly -- no one outside DD's courtroom was screaming bloody murder as the Clip made their way through the building...
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Mike Murdock
Child's Play


Joined: 08 Sep 2014
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 03, 2017 5:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rand wrote:
First off, two no-doubts-about-it errors:

Page 5:

BADEN: "You Honor, if I may."

That should read "Your Honor..."

Page 7:

JUDGE: "I hate to say it, Mr Baden, but it looks like the defense anticipated every argument you were going to make."

That should read "...the prosecution anticipated..."

Now, neither of these errors are show-stopping, by any means, but... Daredevil double-shipped this month. Maybe don't double-ship a book if you don't have time to edit two issues??


I noticed the second of the two. I actually had to go back and make sure I didn't miss something about who was who. Shame when things like that slip through the cracks.
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I'd give the Devil benefit of law, for my own safety's sake!
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Sunni
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Joined: 07 Jan 2017
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 03, 2017 8:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mike Murdock wrote:
Rand wrote:
First off, two no-doubts-about-it errors:

Page 5:

BADEN: "You Honor, if I may."

That should read "Your Honor..."

Page 7:

JUDGE: "I hate to say it, Mr Baden, but it looks like the defense anticipated every argument you were going to make."

That should read "...the prosecution anticipated..."

Now, neither of these errors are show-stopping, by any means, but... Daredevil double-shipped this month. Maybe don't double-ship a book if you don't have time to edit two issues??


I noticed the second of the two. I actually had to go back and make sure I didn't miss something about who was who. Shame when things like that slip through the cracks.

Yeah, those are both errors. I saw another typo recently too (I can’t remember if it was in Defenders or one of the Daredevil sub-universe books), so IMHO it seems like the editors are too busy with project coordination between the writers and artists and giving input to them to catch these mistakes. Marvel would be well served to have someone whose job is to strictly proofread the final drafts before print who does not work with the product on a daily basis. A fresh pair of eyes won’t get everything, but they won’t gloss over errors because they’ve read it too many times either.

Anyway, this was a very fun issue and ranks just under #8 and #19 as one of my favorites of this run. The only complaint I have is without the halftone coloring effect, Sudzuka’s backgrounds are a little too empty for me.

Mike Murdock wrote:
I do love that Matt is helpless in the witness chair. He doesn't get to make these decisions, he's just forced to wait and see.


Yes, that was nice to see him worry about what the decision would be. I also liked when he was giving Baden grief, “If I’m not Daredevil, then what am I doing here?”

Dimetre wrote:
The entire first page is a monologue by the judge. It's good, but I don't think this judge is ever referred to as anything but "the judge" and "Your Honor." I felt, with an opening like this, we were setting him up to become a major character. He's an important part to this story, but I'll be surprised if we ever meet him again.

I think it was to demonstrate the gravitas of the court proceedings we were about to see.

Dimetre wrote:
I was annoyed to read Matt's thoughts about wearing the red suit as a "stunt." "Go for the razzle-dazzle." Am I alone in hoping that the cover of #20 suggested a retiring of the black suit? If the black suit wasn't going to be retired, why use that cover image? But no, we still have the black suit, and the cover for #23 shows him wearing black again. And -- this is important -- Soule has never given us an explanation for why he started wearing black. You'd think Marvel was still owned by ToyBiz, and they just wanted to market a new action figure, but that isn't the case. I'm hoping he goes back to wearing red full-time, because that's his classic look, and the black hearkens too closely to the Shadowland disaster. But, come on Soule, at least tell us what led to the costume change. Maybe that will let me appreciate the black suit more.

Rand wrote:
Following that, a few feel-free-to-quibble complaints:

Page 4: DD's motivation for putting the red suit back on (during this trial) is its "razzle-dazzle"?

Considering how much drama ensues over the contention that "anyone can put on a suit" (as noted by the Judge himself on Page 11), I would think that Matt would at least wear the "right" suit: i.e., his black one.

My understanding was when all the Daredevils merged in #19 the black suit is what Matt saw in his head and that’s what inspired him to wear it. IMHO, he should have more than one in case of combat damage and environmental conditions anyway, so why can’t he wear both? As for which suit to wear to court, I would think the red suit with the dressy gloves and boots would be more formal than the black with the boxing handwraps and boots. I mean, wouldn’t that be the kind of thing Foggy would make a joke about?

Dimetre wrote:
I really did think it was funny that Matt had to stop the judge from calling him "Mr. Devil." You could tell Matt wasn't going to be able to endure much more of that.

Which is why it’s even funnier that the judge goes back to calling Matt that in the last panel we see the judge.

Dimetre wrote:
Now, I'm not a legal expert by any stretch. I enjoyed the part of the story dealing with the response brief. However, I was kind of puzzled with Baden's shock over who composed it. Would someone with Baden's ego and standing be that intimidated by Matt? I suppose it's possible, but we have no prior knowledge of the Baden/Murdock rivalry. Setting up this revelation of who composed the brief just leads to a somewhat hollow outcome. I love Daredevil's grin though.

Considering how much Matt’s co-workers and boss keep harping on his reputation, I would think that Baden must have heard of Matt even if he’s never met him. It even happens again as his colleague at the celebration party insults Matt and then wants to meet Daredevil.

Dimetre wrote:
Which makes me wonder, why didn't Matt use his billy club? Would he have had to check it in with security on his way in? That's believable, but why didn't Soule mention that?

Maybe Matt didn’t bring it to court knowing it wouldn’t be allowed?

Dimetre wrote:
I found myself surprised that we got none of Daredevil's testimony. There was so much build up to it, after all. I guess the most important thing was the outcome.

Narratively that’d be repeating #21, so I get why Soule didn’t show it even with all the build.

Dimetre wrote:
But, Matt said this was going to put an end to crime in New York. That's how he put it. What this does is set a legal precedent where superheroes are allowed to testify in costume without having to surrender their secret identity. While that's an important legal development, who would ever say that "stops crime in New York"? The only superheroes who would ever be allowed to testify unmasked would be ones with glittering reputations. Here is why this issue's judge allowed Daredevil to testify while wearing a mask:
Quote:
We know his powers and his long-standing stance against crime. He has helped this city and this world in countless ways. Various courts have affirmed the idea that under certain circumstances, witnesses can offer confidential testimony -- the seventh circuit, even the U.S. Supreme Court. In my view, Daredevil satisfies these conditions.

If a hero with a more tainted public reputation, like Spider-Man, were to try to testify while wearing a mask, it's very likely the judge would be less charitable and disallow it. So, yes this sets a precedent, but it doesn't do much more, and it hardly "stops crime in New York."

IMHO that’s Spider-Man’s problem, not Daredevil’s. Personally, I’m glad that this was Matt’s plan. First, his solution to end crime in New York by using the legal system to allow superheroes to testify without revealing themselves is something only he could do. It’s an inspired use of both his civilian and costumed personas facilitating each other, and that’s the kind of intelligent thinking from Matt that I want to see in Daredevil. Secondly, I’m glad that it was to force the legal system to work better instead of something outlandish. As I said for #21, Matt truly thinking he could eliminate crime in New York would be delusional on his part.

Dimetre wrote:
And that's a problem, because the payoff is less than the build-up promised. Soule has had difficulty ending his stories in a satisfying way throughout Volume 5, and this is no different.

Do you mean there’s not enough closure for you or that you want Matt’s win percentage higher? He’s doing well so far on victories vs. defeats. If you mean you want more finality, Soule has said he’s approaching his run like a novel so it’s supposed to be all one big story. Personally, I’ve enjoyed how all the arcs interconnect and flow into each other, but if you’d like more discrete stories I can see how that’d be unsatisfying.

Rand wrote:
Page 7: I could've done without the garish accent coloration on the panel depicting Baden's reaction.

I thought that was sort of odd myself as it was a little too horror movie.

Rand wrote:
Page 12: Everyone in the Marvel U seems to forget, whenever convenient, that mutant psychics exist.

DAREDEVIL: "Out in the lobby, there's a woman on her cell."

BADEN: "She could have been planted."

ME: "Or this dude dressed as Daredevil could be some other super-powered man: specifically, a psychic."

This same argument applies to the back-and-forth over what Baden had for lunch. Could it be DD's super-senses? Sure. Could it just be a private eye tailing Baden around? You bet.

But it could also be that we have some psychic mutant dressed as Daredevil. Who's to say? Just a couple storylines ago in this very series, we were introduced to such a psychic!

You make a very valid point. I believe it’s not acknowledged because bringing up Apex or someone like him opens an entirely different can of worms. How do you know the psychic isn’t lying, even if unintentionally?

Rand wrote:
Page 14: Another really minor complaint, but -- speaking of the Clip making their entrance -- was no one in the courtroom aware that danger was headed their way until DD shouted "Everyone get down!"?

I think it's safe to assume that the NY Supreme Court has armed guards posted at every entrance. Wouldn't the arrival of the four heavily-armed members of the Clip have triggered a shoot-out -- or at least the raising of some general alarm -- as soon as they entered the courthouse itself? It's not like they made any attempt to disguise who they were! And yet -- seemingly -- no one outside DD's courtroom was screaming bloody murder as the Clip made their way through the building...

Sure, if they came in guns blazing. I presume they came in more discretely through a less guarded entrance and then upped the theatrics as they charged into the courtroom.
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