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Marvel's Daredevil: S3 E7-E13 Discussion and SPOILERS

 
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Kuljit Mithra
Lowlife


Joined: 29 Jul 2004
Posts: 1464
Location: Canada

PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2018 7:19 pm    Post subject: Marvel's Daredevil: S3 E7-E13 Discussion and SPOILERS Reply with quote

Please use this thread to discuss episodes 7-13 (and if needed, anything that came before).

Thanks!
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Daredevil24
Humanity's Fathom


Joined: 06 Apr 2011
Posts: 318

PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2018 6:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Netflix seems to be ashamed of the superhero aspect of the hero. I've enjoyed season 3 but it's definitely not perfect. I hate the ninja suit.
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lcarr1991
Flying Blind


Joined: 26 May 2018
Posts: 15

PostPosted: Sat Oct 20, 2018 12:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don’t hate it and i can understand the narrative reasons why they didnt use the proper suit. I wish they did though. They set up a new version that would have fit matt at potters workshop but then never used it. I thought matt was going to have an arc where he ended up accepting the daredevil identity rather than being “the devil” and get back in the suit for the final fight but it never happened. Likewise i was waiting for bullseye to sand off the horns from his suit and paint it black but was disappointed again. That being said however i wasnt a great fan of the kingpin in all white so maybe im not a reliable judge of what i really want. I just hope matt gets his horns back somehow before the next season.

On an unrelated note it seems like we now have zero chance of bullseye being kingpins long term go to assassin but pitting them against each other again in future could be interesting.
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Daredevil24
Humanity's Fathom


Joined: 06 Apr 2011
Posts: 318

PostPosted: Sat Oct 20, 2018 2:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As a story I thought it was phenomenal but as a 'Daredevil' story I'm in different. It was a thriller but I'm not as high on it as some might be. It definitely had it's flaws in my opinion. I found myself more interested in the Kingpin than Murdock. I wouldn't be surprised if this was the last season.
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Mike Murdock
Parts of a Hole


Joined: 08 Sep 2014
Posts: 1180

PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2018 12:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm surprised they adapted that Nocenti story where Matt fought Bullseye while Bullseye was wearing Daredevil's suit. I mean, Born Again's nice, but that story is where it's at.

All joking aside, I loved the second half and I loved the season. The biggest worry I had was whether the showrunner got the characters. Season One seemed to be pushing Matt as Batman and was possibly indifferent to whether he killed or not. Season Two seemed to push the narrative that he's one bad day away from becoming Frank Castle, which I never bought. This season seemed to truly understand the character, especially at the end. I loved the way it was resolved.

So many comics allusions this season:
* I mentioned the Nocenti issue. I stand by that.
* Daredevil bartering with Vanessa reminds me a lot of the resolution to the Randolph Cherryh story.
* Obviously, the paralysis is not only a Frank Miller reference, but Daredevil #200 as well.
* Guardian Devil with the church
* And, of course, Born Again. At least once they quoted dialogue from it (and possibly poked fun at Frank Miller's repetition).
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Dimetre
Paradiso


Joined: 16 Feb 2006
Posts: 1010
Location: Toronto

PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2018 12:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This season was such a pleasure to watch. One thing I admire at Marvel Studios is that they incorporate certain aspects from the comics, but the writers come up with their own ideas and stories. What has come before in the comics serves as a springboard, not a restriction.

All of the characters as drawn up by the studio's writers are so compelling. We had a deep look into Maggie. We had a deep look into Karen. Dex was probably the biggest surprise for me this season. What a fascinating character! They actually succeeded in making someone incapable of empathy somewhat sympathetic. They focused on his lifelong struggle to centre himself and his need to cling to a moral and steady person. I don't think I have encountered a story that did that before.

If I have to dock points for anything, it would be for the following.

The episode that delves into Karen's backstory with her family in the country was very well done, but I'm not sure we ended up with anything that was terribly vital to this season's story. To be clear, if Karen in the show's present day is seeking forgiveness for anything, it's for killing Wesley back in the first season. Her brother's death never comes up in conversation at all. I feel her past definitely contributes to her poor self image, but it's so under the surface that I don't think the time dedicated to that episode was warranted.

We never found out how Fisk found out about Dex's background. He never stole the taped sessions of the therapy sessions. Felix Manning may have been able to scrounge up some documents detailing Poindexter's past, but that wouldn't let Fisk into the minutiae of his deep psychological scars. Honestly, how did he know about Julie Barnes? I would have liked to see Manning or someone uncover all of this background somehow.

Honestly, other than those two things, everything else made up my favourite season of a Marvel Netflix show to date. Would I have liked to see Charlie Cox wear the proper Daredevil outfit instead of Wilson Bethel? Sure, but that's not what they did, and what they did was fantastic! I hope we get a season four, and that we keep as much of this cast and crew as possible. This was way better than I felt I had any right to expect it to be.
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Mike Murdock
Parts of a Hole


Joined: 08 Sep 2014
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2018 6:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Felix Manning got that box of stuff about Dex's life. If I'm not mistaken, the thing he was reading was a transcript of his sessions with his therapist (the tapes were for Dex, but they were apparently typed up as well). I feel Fisk figured out Julie by having Dex followed to see what he did. Other than that, I don't know.
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james castle
Devil in Cell-Block D


Joined: 30 Jul 2004
Posts: 1996
Location: Toronto, Ontario

PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2018 2:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Haven't posted in a while but I thought I'd just drop in to say "what on earth is everyone talking about?". I did not like the season. I'm pretty cool on all the Netflix shows. S1 of Iron Fist and The Defenders were so terrible I've skipped everything that came out after them. But because it's Daredevil and because everyone was saying how great it was I jumped back in. After finishing the series this weekend I just kinda hope Netflix pulls the plug. The sooner this series ends the soon we can get a (hopefully MCU) reboot. But why should it end?

Adaptation of What?

I've seen a number of people praise this season as a great adaptation of the comic. To them I say: what comic? Sure, there were some plot points and imagery pulled from the comics but every instance was basically at random. It was like Born Again, Nocenti's Bulleyes arc, Out and Gang War thrown haplessly into a blender and then scattered on the floor. Look, it's Matt recovering in a church....from injuries that the Kingpin had nothing to do with. It's Matt jumping in a cab to drive the witness to a newspaper to spill the beans on the Kingpin. I guess that's like Born Again? A bit? Oh look, Kingpin is trying to destroy Daredevil by attacking Matt....wait....no....he's attacking Daredevil? Karen told Kingpin who Daredevil is (it's Born Again again) by mistake (what??!?).

The biggest thing for me was Kingpin trying to destroy Daredevil by making a fake Daredevil. In Born again that was a cool way for Kingpin to draw out Matt. In the tv show it's just dumb. Why would Matt care? Why would anyone care. Oh no, Daredevil is evil now. Just change you suit. Now Matt is Speedball and does all the hero stuff as Speedball. Sullying "Daredevil" does nothing.

Also, why didn't Matt want to be Matt anymore? Because a building fell on him?

Also, I hated, HATED, the "maybe I should kill!" crap. One of the central characteristics of Matt is that he doesn't kill. Why build a big thing around him maybe wanting to kill people? Plus, Kingpin didn't even do anything that bad this season. He was being his old criminal self but not to such an extent that Matt believably wanted to kill him.

More generally, I just can't stand the decompressed Netflix style. It's like they write a movie and then have to stretch it over 13 episodes. Sometimes that comes in one off episodes like the Karen or Dex one (which is okay) but most of the time it's just long and drawn out scenes. It get that these scenes, that usually don't advance the plot, are supposed to be character building but the characters aren't complex enough and the writing isn't good enough to justify the long scenes. It's picky but I couldn't help but noticing again and again these stretched out scenes. One silly example is when Karen meets with Kingpin. Karen stares at him and Kingpin is like "would you like some tea?". Long pause. Then Karen is like "no thanks". Another long pause. How does that survive an edit? It's not important. It's not interesting. It's just filler.

Finally, neither Matt nor Dex are anything like Matt and Bullseye from the comics. Which, fine - do your own thing but I just prefer the comic versions and am not concerned about seeing more of these knock offs.
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Cropsy Cryptkeeper
Flying Blind


Joined: 21 Nov 2018
Posts: 12

PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2018 2:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Best season to date; definitely my favorite show right now, can't wait for season 4. It wasn't a direct adaption of Born Again but for me it kind of had the same feel and definitely alluded enough to the story to be called a loose adaption of the story. Kingpin is much more fearsome as a manipulator and showed just how dangerous he can be; I don't think I've seen any other villain play the game as hard as Fisk does and come on top. I didn't feel like anything was drawn out or clumsy, there were a lot of emotional payoffs and sitting through it a second time I can see how stuff they said all the way in season 1 alluded to stuff that is happening now, just a lot of great story beats throughout. I loved how they handled Bullseye and how they showed Kingpin's long game. That prison riot episode was just...WOW! And the Bulleye vs DD fight at the newspaper was iconic. A lot of people didn't like the whole Matt not wanting to be DD thing, or at least not wanting the costume back; it made sense to me story wise or at least where his head was at.
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