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2017 in review

 
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Dimetre
Child's Play


Joined: 16 Feb 2006
Posts: 956
Location: Toronto

PostPosted: Mon Jan 01, 2018 4:19 pm    Post subject: 2017 in review Reply with quote

Our webmaster Kuljit posted the following:

http://www.manwithoutfear.com/daredevil-news-article/2017-12-31-Daredevil-Year-In-Review

Out of the issues listed as published in 2017, I would have to say my favourite is Daredevil #28. I think it is one of the rare times that Soule finished off a story strongly. I loved Sam's dialogue about being an illegal immigrant, and I really feel like Matt overcame a very dark period. While I think Charles Soule's run on Daredevil has been decent at best, I do think his work has taken an upward turn in quality. I'm very curious about what is going on with Muse, one of the best new villains to come along in a long time.

As for the shows, I did not enjoy Iron Fist, and while I think The Defenders was better than that show, I don't think it was better enough to be described as "good." From what I've seen of The Punisher, it seems excellent, but Frank Castle is not a character I can embrace. One day I'll finish the season, but for now I am enjoying the latest season of Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. and The Runaways a lot more.
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Mike Murdock
Paradiso


Joined: 08 Sep 2014
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 01, 2018 7:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think our sentiments with Punisher as a character are very similar. I'd definitely endorse the show. It's violent, but it doesn't go as expected. I was expecting a Garth Ennis glorification of violence and it's not that at all.

For the comics, I wish I could count it for this year, but it was December 2016, because the turning point for Soule for me is still #14 - The Dark Art conclusion. That being said, #16 and #20 are highlights. I don't agree with #28 being the only strong conclusion, but I think it might be the strongest arc from beginning to end. Over all, just looking at my reviews from 2016 to 2017, there's no doubt Soule has improved tremendously in his writing of the character.
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james castle
Devil in Cell-Block D


Joined: 30 Jul 2004
Posts: 1995
Location: Toronto, Ontario

PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 11:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My overall rating: Not so good to terrible.

Comics:

Daredevil - I am not enjoying Soule's run at all. Generally I find the issues pretty boring with way, way too much exposition. Usually he just sort of tells the reader what his story idea is in captions and there's some art underneath. I'm reading on Unlimited so I'm a bit behind so maybe it gets better. For now I'm half way through the Supreme story which is pretty bad. He keeps hitting the reader over the head with the concept but there's not twists, no plot. It just goes point a -> point b. Plus, from a legal perspective the whole thing makes zero sense. I feel like he's trying to present it as a real look at a complex issue but the whole thing is way too shallow to be interesting. Very disappointing.

Running With the Devil - The difference between how these books were marketed and what they actually were is truly mind boggling. Ohhh, they're launching a bunch of series to create an expanded Daredevil Universe where all the stories build together. Sounds good! Well, too bad because it's actually just three completely unrelated mini-series - two of which are beyond bizarre (Elektra fights....Arcade (what?) and Bullseys goes to Central America?). I feel like if it was just another Elektra or Bullseye series I wouldn't have cared as much. But the flat out marketing lie made it worse.

Defenders - Speaking of marketing lies - the idea that this comic isn't just a direct response to the TV show is hilarious. It's also standard Bendis garbage. Go back and read just how many times someone says "Copperhead" in issue 1. Or go revisit the hilarious and complete bizarre Blade cameo in issue 2. Honestly, Blade just shows up, does...something (?)...smiles and then goes away in, like, two pages? So weird.

TV

As a kid there's literally nothing I wanted more than a Daredevil movie (tv wasn't as cool then but if it was like it is now I probably would have wanted a TV show too). Now we have a whole TV universe and I just want it to stop.

Iron Fist - jaw droppingly bad. It really is very bad on almost every level.

Defenders - less bad but bad.

Punisher - I haven't watched it yet. Mostly because of how bad Iron Fist and The Defenders is. I will watch it eventually though and (despite everything I've said about) have high hopes.
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macjr33
Flying Blind


Joined: 22 Nov 2017
Posts: 26
Location: Pittsburgh, PA

PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 1:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Happy New Year All!

Great topic! My overall rating would be a solid B+

Comics
Daredevil - Overall, I have enjoyed Soule’s run (minus some of the complaints regarding the art at times) and thought that for the most part it has improved. Agree with some of the other posts that Muse is definitely one of the better villains to come along in quite some time. As for a favorite issue of 2017. I would say for me the highlights were:

#16 – As mentioned above, Muse has been one of the best parts of Soule’s run and this was a great conclusion to that arc.
#25 – Found it cool to see Murdock in front of the Supreme Court and liked the panels with him getting “beat up” by the justices.

I will say that I am excited for 2018 as I think #595 and 596 are the best issues that Soule has done and I am really enjoying this arc so far. A-

The Defenders - I may be in the minority here on the board; however, I am loving The Defenders comic series and I'm sad that it is being canceled. Now I will also say that I may be a bit biased as Bendis’ run on Daredevil is my favorite as well. I feel that he really gets the characters, I enjoy their interactions and while there is a lot of the typical Bendis exposition, I feel that it works. He also manages to write Deadpool in a way that I don’t completely hate so there’s that too! However, what I have enjoyed the most would be the art by David Marquez, which I feel has been just breathtaking. Two instances in particular come to mind, one in #3 where Danny is fighting Diamondback and the way he depicts Danny using the Iron Fist is so beautiful. I’ve never seen it shown so well and I am a reader of the current Iron Fist series and have read others (The Immortal Iron Fist and The Living Weapon). The other is the fight that Danny has with Elektra in #7, the detail is just insanely good and includes another awesome use of the Iron Fist . I would encourage anyone who hasn’t seen these panels to check them out. A-

Running with the Devil Series – I agree that how this was all handled seemed to be confusing. Of three I enjoyed the Kingpin series the most and thought it had some potential. Elektra showed initial promise; however, was rather bland (wish they could figure out how to use this character properly). Bullseye’s series I could go without. What is most confusing though is that this lead to ZERO cross-over in the main DD title. Strange… C+

TV

Iron Fist – While it may be the weakest of the 4 individual Netflix series (though I would say that Luke Cage had issues too) I still feel it wasn’t as bad everyone made it out to be. The show had controversy before it even started and it was going to be a tough sell blending the mystical elements of Iron Fist with the more grounded, gritty Netflix universe that had already been created. I feel like a new showrunner could correct a lot of these flaws, or perhaps what would have made more sense would be to scrap the individual Iron Fist and Luke Cage series and just do a Power Man & Iron Fist series. B-

The Defenders – it certainly was a mixed bag; however, I will say that most of the high points involved Matt. I really enjoyed the dynamic between him and Jessica especially as this wasn’t something that had been explored much in the comics (though I loved how their introduction drew inspiration from the Allias comic). Also enjoyed Matt and Elektra interaction/fight and was glad to see Foggy start to come around a bit as there is no way Foggy in Season 2 of DD gives Matt his suit like that. Karen is still a bit of a drag for me which I will explain more in just a moment. Lastly, I am curious to see where DD season 3 goes given the Born Again inspired conclusion of The Defenders. B

The Punisher – I am currently about half-way through the series and I am enjoying for the most part, particularly Bernthal’s performance; however, I certainly haven’t been blown away. I just don’t find him to be that compelling of a character in general and feel he is utilized best when he is the foil for one of the more moral characters (DD, Spider-Man, Captain America) which seems to echo similar sentiments. What also bothers me is the relationship with Karen, in that, I can not understand how she can be sympathetic and supportive of Castle yet come down on Matt for the decisions that he makes. Sure she questions him, but not in the same way she does Matt. NR

Looking forward to 2018, hoping we get DD Season 3 this year!
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Sunni
Flying Blind


Joined: 07 Jan 2017
Posts: 66

PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 11:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, without the Netflix show, I wouldn’t be here as I’d still be reading Batman instead and feeling vaguely dissatisfied. So, I tend to have a different take on things compared to the rest of you, which is why I truly appreciate reading all of your opinions. Happy New Year everyone!

Comicwise, I’m really enjoy Soule’s run on Daredevil. Aside from Sam’s immature behavior, I really don’t have any major complaints about it as his style is what I really enjoy reading. At the same time, what I like about it (subtle, structured introspective storytelling with a strong action component) is exactly what is going to turn some people off, so I understand why it’s not working for everyone even though it does for me. I’ve also enjoyed the variety of artists on the book with Garney, Laming, and Landini as my favorites, but I do think a more regular art rotation would help retain sales. In addition, I’ve been enjoying The Defenders even with Bendis’ idiosyncratic writer tics that drive me up the wall, so I’m disappointed the title is ending, but I’m not too sad because I’m lukewarm on the rest of the team. Danny is just okay to me, and I’m not really a fan of Luke or Jessica.

james castle wrote:
Running With the Devil - The difference between how these books were marketed and what they actually were is truly mind boggling.

macjr33 wrote:
What is most confusing though is that this lead to ZERO cross-over in the main DD title. Strange…

Soule and editor Mark Paniccia gave an interview with Marvel.com where they stated that Daredevil, Elektra, and Kingpin were going to tie together after Elektra’s and Kingpin’s first arcs, which is why in Elektra #5 she finds out Kingpin was behind Arcade’s scheme to kill her, and she returns to NYC. Now low sales prevented us from getting to that point, so in retrospect Marvel should have started with the crossover instead.

In regards to the Netflix shows, I liked Iron Fist but I suspect I have a greater tolerance of melodrama and unintentional camp than most. The Defenders had issues, but I can’t say I care what they were as the Matt scenes were excellent and the Matt and Elektra scenes were beautiful with phenomenal performances by Charlie Cox and Elodie Yung. The Punisher’s MO means every story of his is the same, which is why I haven’t bothered with his yet.

macjr33 wrote:
What also bothers me is the relationship with Karen, in that, I can not understand how she can be sympathetic and supportive of Castle yet come down on Matt for the decisions that he makes. Sure she questions him, but not in the same way she does Matt.

Perfectly stated. Combine that with Matt and Karen’s lack of spark (Charlie Cox was chemistry tested with Elodie Yung before she was hired as Elektra, but not Deborah Ann Woll who he met on set), and I’m not really a fan of Karen in the show. If the writers are insistent on writing her this way, I think Matt would be better off away from Karen. Maybe they should add Echo or Typhoid Mary?
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macjr33
Flying Blind


Joined: 22 Nov 2017
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 1:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sunni wrote:

Perfectly stated. Combine that with Matt and Karen’s lack of spark (Charlie Cox was chemistry tested with Elodie Yung before she was hired as Elektra, but not Deborah Ann Woll who he met on set), and I’m not really a fan of Karen in the show. If the writers are insistent on writing her this way, I think Matt would be better off away from Karen. Maybe they should add Echo or Typhoid Mary?


1000% YES to including Echo in the Netflix series. I've been wanting her back in the comics for awhile as well (and more than just that brief appearance she had awhile back). She has a cool skill set, would fit into the gritty Netflix universe and as an added bonus would further the diversity of the show as her character is of Native American decent I believe.

There are rumors that Typhoid Mary may be the villain for Season 2 of Jessica Jones so that could be interesting. Though I must admit I am not that huge fan of her character (or Nocetti's run in general).

If they were looking for another potential love interest, I would be in favor of Dakota North or Kristen McDuffie, though I may be in the minority for the later suggestion.
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Mike Murdock
Paradiso


Joined: 08 Sep 2014
Posts: 1083

PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 3:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like Kirsten McDuffie overall. My biggest complaint with her is I can never remember her first name and have to constantly look it up. I'm not really a fan of Dakota North both because I hate the baggage that comes with it and any desire to ignore the baggage.

I think Charlie Cox's chemistry with Deborah Ann Woll is better than most people do, but I'll concede I'm in the minority here so there's something other people are seeing.
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macjr33
Flying Blind


Joined: 22 Nov 2017
Posts: 26
Location: Pittsburgh, PA

PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 6:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mike Murdock wrote:

I think Charlie Cox's chemistry with Deborah Ann Woll is better than most people do, but I'll concede I'm in the minority here so there's something other people are seeing.


I actually agree that they have pretty good chemistry as well. My issue is more with how Karen is written then it is necessarily Deborah Ann Woll's performance. I just feel she should be more understanding of what Matt does, the clear difference between him and Castle, and that he struggles with it. All she wanted was for him to tell her the truth and when he does she comes down on him. Also, I find it a bit odd as well given she hasn't fessed up to killing Wesley either.

I've referenced this before; however, one of my favorite moments with Karen, ever, is the panel from Guardian Devil (which I felt was sub-par overall, but liked this moment) when Matt has the flashback of the two of them discussing the idea of having a child and where she tells him how much safer she feels knowing that Matt is out there protecting the city and to never give up. That was pretty powerful for me and defined Matt's character long after that. I guess I was just hoping to see something similar in the show.
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Mike Murdock
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Joined: 08 Sep 2014
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 7:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree with all that. That was one of the better scenes from that story (actually, I would argue the death of Karen Page starting with the scene in the church until then was well-handled).
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I'd give the Devil benefit of law, for my own safety's sake!
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