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DD Book Club - The King of Hell's Kitchen
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Mike Murdock
Golden Age


Joined: 08 Sep 2014
Posts: 1750

PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2018 7:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bendis's dialogue pacing was very useful in the start. It's a fairly benign FBI conversation that goes on too long, but we get to see a few different moments that are important. One, we see Agent Driver and Del Toro together and their different perspectives. We get a debate about whether vigilantism is good as the Yakuza are freed from jail. Driver seems to be leaning towards using vigilantes, Del Toro is taking a much more sensible middle ground. Their argument, which starts to be about whether the Yakuza would leave or not, takes a sudden, dramatic turn that adds something quite interesting to the story.

I do like the Foggy/Matt relationship in this issue. In the past, it's been nagging and whining, and bickering. Here, Foggy is supportive. He's acting intelligently. And they have genuine friendship and even humor (I like the "yellow" joke). I also loved the exchange between Daredevil and Jessica. This issue has had humor that's been missing for a while.

That being said, while I'm praising Foggy and Matt, I'm not a fan of what Foggy did at the end. Definitely feels like he's making things worse.

Four Stars. It's good to see things having some momentum again and some signs that things might get better for Matt.
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macjr33
Flying Blind


Joined: 22 Nov 2017
Posts: 97
Location: Pittsburgh, PA

PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2018 11:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I find this to be another solid issue where its strength is in the interactions we get between several of the characters.

First, I really like Matt and Foggy's dynamic in this issue. I too like the joking and that he is generally supportive of Matt. Loved the reference to the yellow costume as well and the humor in general. Overall the conversation showed how there was a deep understanding between them and that their relationship had a lot of depth.

I know some of you have brought up him talking to Milla and honestly I don't see too much of an issue with it. In my mind he is just trying to help and is concerned for Milla. Certainly no where near as bad as when he and Natasha decided to forge messages between Matt and Heather to break them up. Though I definitely thought it was weird that Milla was in her underwear during the conversation.

Also enjoyed Matt's interactions with Luke and Jessica. The humor was needed and adds to the relationship between the characters.

I also enjoyed Matt's interaction with Milla as it showed how loving and kind Matt can be when he is not breaking bones.

I even found the conversation between Foggy and Ben to be quite good as well.

The page with Matt, Luke, Danny and Peter is epic and one of my favorite Maleev panels. As I am a Maleev fan in general enjoyed the art throughout.

4 stars for me!
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Mike Murdock
Golden Age


Joined: 08 Sep 2014
Posts: 1750

PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2018 8:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Daredevil Vol. 2 #60 - The King of Hell's Kitchen Part 6



Quote:
Daredevil returns, ready to rid the city of Yakuza crime lords once and for all. And this time, he’s brought some backup.


Due 7/29
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I'd give the Devil benefit of law, for my own safety's sake!
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Dimetre
Underboss


Joined: 16 Feb 2006
Posts: 1366
Location: Toronto

PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2018 1:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just want to emphasize that I have never read "Kingpin of Hell's Kitchen" before. I'll admit to being predisposed to disliking Bendis' work before I read it, but that's only because I've disliked so much of his work before. I purchased every issue of "Wake Up" and all of #26-50. I think I gave him a fair shake, and I grew sick of him. I also gave glowing reviews to the second part of "Trial of the Century" and the issue in this arc which had the Night Nurse, so that proves that I can be objective.

I found this issue underwhelming for a few reasons.

First: Is there anybody out there who thinks a bunch of Yakuza -- no matter how numerous -- are a match for not only Daredevil, but also Spider-Man, Luke Cage and Iron Fist? Were you worried for any of them? I certainly wasn't. The fact that we saw Matt take on a bunch of them alone and out of costume already certainly robbed this battle of most of its impact. I just couldn't get worked up reading this.

Second: Daredevil's taunting of Sano. I'm on record for hating the way Alex Maleev draws Matt with his gritted teeth. It always looks like he's getting ready to spit out a loogy. But there is also this pattern in Bendis' stories where, in the climactic battle against the antagonist, the hero always belittles the villain, saying he never had a chance of winning. Daredevil does that, yet again, here. He did it against the Owl in "Lowlife" and he did it against Bullseye in "Hardcore." He may have even done that against Fisk too. Now he does it against Sano. Now I never thought Sano had a chance against Daredevil -- that's one of the reasons I had a hard time caring about this story. But when you have our hero talking like that while beating down the villain, you have Matt starting to look conceited and resorting to puffery. He's acting like a dog displaying dominant behaviour to get to the top of the pack, and I always thought that Matt was better than that.

I always thought that Matt, even at his lowest, had a measure of self-awareness, control and humility. The Bendis version of the character doesn't. I have never seen Daredevil bark at a villain to tell the police what they need to hear. My favourite version of Daredevil, as written by either Miller or O'Neil, never would have had to do that. He could just get the villains to do what he wants with a look. My classic version of the character is a man of few words. He speaks through actions. That's why I'll always be of the view that Bendis just doesn't understand how Daredevil works best as a character.

Third: Milla running out. We've never actually been told whether Matt ever told Milla about past girlfriends before marrying her. Now, I think Milla is a very well-written character. One of the things I like about her is how independent and smart she is. If she has fallen in love with Daredevil, then she ought to know a lot of Matt's previous relationships are a matter of public record. At the very least, she ought to know that he was involved with Black Widow, whose allegiance has often been called into question. I would think a smart lady like Milla would have had the wherewithal to ask Matt about that before accepting his proposal. I don't know whether she'd have found out about Elektra, but I think she'd have heard Karen's name in passing, simply from hanging around the office, and wouldn't have been scared to approach Matt about that too. I don't think there would have been anything wrong with her doing that either, since she has every right to protect herself. It's in both her and Matt's best interest to go into a marriage with complete awareness of themselves and each other.

Now, I've typed at length about how ridiculous it is that Bendis is treating this notion of the "nervous breakdown" as being so revolutionary. I would have expected anyone hanging around Matt to appreciate that he has unresolved issues surrounding Karen's death, and perhaps he should seek the help of a therapist. I find it laughable that never occurred to Foggy until 54 issues after Karen's death. I find it similarly laughable it never occurred to Ben Urich, a journalist who's seen it all. I know that Milla is a comparatively new addition to the cast, but, since I believe she should have at least been aware of Karen's existence, it shouldn't be surprising that a man who was involved with Karen at the time of her death may need help working through it.

So, while I agree with the idea that Matt wouldn't have married Milla so quickly were he of sound mind, I also don't see this revelation that he is troubled about Karen's death to be grounds for running out on him. What promise did he break? I completely believe that Matt and Milla are in love with each other. Why wouldn't she help him work through this? I just don't get it. Why is this "nervous breakdown" being treated like Matt's cardinal sin? Ben, Foggy and Milla are treating Matt like he has some gross infection, when the truth is that he simply has issues he needs help working through.

I think good writers display their characters working at the peak of their intelligence, and I don't think Bendis has done that at all in his Daredevil run. Characters realize things too late. Underlings take advantage of their superior's weaknesses, but they do so sloppily. Everybody gets called crazy or a loser. People make rash decisions with catastrophic outcomes, instead of taking a breath and behaving like adults. In Bendis comics, everyone is Star Lord.

Finally, Ben Urich needs an entire page to look at a newspaper-- a newspaper telling us what we already know. I think this issue came in one page short, and Bendis, seeing that, said to himself, "Heck, I'm one page short. Well, maybe Ben looks at a newspaper. I don't care." Really, what are we supposed to take away from this page? Does Ben think Daredevil shouldn't have stopped the Yakuza?

Previous issues in this arc were lifted up by Ben Urich's Dashiell Hammet-esque narration. This issue suffered from its absence. Yes, there were some neat kicks, but there were also some action beats I felt Maleev could have done better, like showing how Matt can sense what's going on behind him. But the bottom line is that I think Daredevil has to be done better than this. This Daredevil, as written by Bendis, is not my Daredevil. I realize that is completely subjective, so I'm not going to give it an insulting mark, but I'm going to give this issue a low grade. 2.5 out of 5.
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Mike Murdock
Golden Age


Joined: 08 Sep 2014
Posts: 1750

PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2018 7:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maleev has strengths and weaknesses. I don't think the splash page with Daredevil, Spider-Man, Luke Cage, and Iron Fist was his strongest. The muted colors and indistinct background makes it look overall underwhelming. There are some cool moments in the fight scene, but underwhelming is the word I'd use overall. I liked Daredevil's lines scaring the criminals. I like the idea that, in this dark world, he can hold his own in intimidation. That being said, I prefer the way Frank Miller does it where he can do it without speaking or lifting a finger.

After that, it feels like the story ends quite abruptly. There's a conversation with Milla that's continuing the situation. I like their relationship, so it's a shame to see them having issues. On the other hand, I don't know their marriage, so it's hard to be upset if that's falling apart.

Three and a Half Stars. This felt disappointing overall, which is a shame since I thought it had much greater potential. I guess I don't have much else to say.
_________________
Matt Murdock's cooler twin brother

Not sure what to read next? Check out the Book Club for some ideas!

I'd give the Devil benefit of law, for my own safety's sake!
Thomas More - A Man for All Seasons
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macjr33
Flying Blind


Joined: 22 Nov 2017
Posts: 97
Location: Pittsburgh, PA

PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2018 1:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Apologies for being a bit late with my thoughts on this issue.

I feel that I perhaps have the dissenting opinion when compared to Dimetre as I have shared numerous times that Bendis' run on Daredevil is my favorite so, in re-reading this arc, I was predisposed to liking it. So with that in mind, here are my thoughts:

- Maleev's art, for me, is fantastic in this issue. I know that Maleev is polarizing for people, they either love him or hate him; however, the 2 page spread with Daredevil, Luke, Spider-Man and Iron Fist is amazing. One of my favorites by Maleev, second only to 2-page spread where Matt and Natasha attach Jigsaw in the next arc. His style, for me, fits perfectly in this type of narrative.

- Liked Matt's speech to the villians, perhaps a little over the top, but fun none the less, especially with the comments from Spider-Man.

- Action was good, glad to have other heroes involved.

- It does end a bit abruptly though it was to a conclusion I think some may have seen coming. No matter what the people that get involved with Matt pay the consequences, often through no fault of their own.

4 out of 5 stars

Dimetre wrote:
First: Is there anybody out there who thinks a bunch of Yakuza -- no matter how numerous -- are a match for not only Daredevil, but also Spider-Man, Luke Cage and Iron Fist? Were you worried for any of them? I certainly wasn't. The fact that we saw Matt take on a bunch of them alone and out of costume already certainly robbed this battle of most of its impact. I just couldn't get worked up reading this.


I am not sure the intention was to be worried at all. I had quite the opposite interpretation in that Matt wanted to drop the hammer on the Yakuza to let them know to get out of dodge hence why he brought some heavy hitters with him. He didn't want to just beat them, he wanted to crush them if they wouldn't listen to him. Now perhaps the Yakuza thinking that they could beat was perhaps a bit silly, but that happens a bit in comics.

Dimetre wrote:
I always thought that Matt, even at his lowest, had a measure of self-awareness, control and humility. The Bendis version of the character doesn't. I have never seen Daredevil bark at a villain to tell the police what they need to hear. My favourite version of Daredevil, as written by either Miller or O'Neil, never would have had to do that. He could just get the villains to do what he wants with a look. My classic version of the character is a man of few words. He speaks through actions. That's why I'll always be of the view that Bendis just doesn't understand how Daredevil works best as a character.


While agree that he has been shown to be self-aware, in control and humble; conversely, he has also shown to go completely off the rails and to me that started with Miller. In Miller's original run he had Matt treat Heather terribly to the point of blackmailing her to marry him, he dug up his ex-girlfriends remains and played Russian Roulette with one of his rouges. He was shown as anything but stable. Bendis clearly borrowed from this, you could argue that Miller did it better, but the themes are similar.
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