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DD Book Club - Typhoid

 
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Dimetre
Underboss


Joined: 16 Feb 2006
Posts: 1366
Location: Toronto

PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2018 2:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

macjr33 wrote:
Honestly, I think that Matt cheating on Karen with Mary had a bigger impact on me than Matt's affair with Dakota even though it's implied that Mary has some low level mind control type abilities.

I would have to agree. I think part of it is that, as much as I've come to like Milla, I have always associated her with a the Bendis run which drove me temporarily away from the title. Also, I thought, as cool as Milla seems to be, it shows a shocking lack of awareness on Matt's part to dive into a marriage when he still hasn't dealt with his grief over Karen and he has known Milla for such a short time. So, to me, it seemed inevitable that something would come along and doom the marriage. I liked Dakota North a lot, and am kind of stunned that we haven't heard from her again.

At this point in Matt and Karen's relationship, they had both emerged from their personal hells and ended up stronger together. That makes the success of Typhoid and the Kingpin's scheme all the more tragic.
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Mike Murdock
Golden Age


Joined: 08 Sep 2014
Posts: 1750

PostPosted: Sun Sep 09, 2018 7:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

For those who are watching Iron Fist, Mary Walker has been a fairly big part of it. No spoilers, but it's always interesting to see how they adapt a character. I'm tempted to continue the second part of this story to further explore the comparison, but this will be the last part covered for now so we can do Fall From Grace (I've been promising that story for awhile). I don't think this story has a good conclusion anyway, but I hope to finish it some time soon.

Daredevil Vol. 1 #256 - Blindspots



Quote:
Things are heating up between Matt and Mary- but what happens if Karen Page discovers her boyfriend’s tryst? Daredevil’s disgusted by his new foe Typhoid…and he can’t get enough.


Due 9/15
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I'd give the Devil benefit of law, for my own safety's sake!
Thomas More - A Man for All Seasons
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Dimetre
Underboss


Joined: 16 Feb 2006
Posts: 1366
Location: Toronto

PostPosted: Sun Sep 09, 2018 3:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Typhoid Mary sometimes confuses me, because Typhoid and Mary are supposed to be two completely separate personalities, to the point that they have different pulse rates and everything. Two issues ago, when Mary was meeting Matt, she was feeding him mental commands. Does that mean that Mary was involved in the meeting with Kingpin, not just Typhoid?

Now it seems, two issues later, Mary is sincerely in love with Matt, while Typhoid has developed a more carnal interest in him as well. When Typhoid comes close to killing Matt, that triggers Mary's awakening, and she takes over, prompting her to run away.

Does this mean that if Typhoid does something that horrifies Mary enough, that Mary can take over? Does that mean that Mary's usual crimes don't sufficiently repulse Mary?

I guess I'm not clear on how much of Kingpin's plan Mary is in on compared to Typhoid. It certainly seems like Fisk's dealings have been with Typhoid, and that he has severely underestimated her capabilities, along with his own immunity to her.

I think Nocenti did a particularly compelling job at emphasizing Matt's less favourable attributes this issue. Even the opening page has him accusing someone else of arrogance, but then we come to discover that he's coming down hard on a petty scam artist because he feels he has to treat all laws with equal importance, or else there will be anarchy. That shows an enormous level of self-importance.

There have been stories that have made it difficult to continue to connect with heroic characters, if only temporarily. Tony Stark after Civil War is a good example, along with Carol Danvers after Civil War II. I think the reason those characters suddenly became harder to side with is because their position on the key issue was difficult to explain. With this story, Matt doesn't have that problem. The Kelco case has only one morally correct side. It may be more unclear legally, but morally it's open and shut. So we're able to see that Matt is the same morally upright hero we've always known. What's changed is that he's become painfully self-righteous.

It's understandable that Matt would be mixed up at this point in his life, having only recently come out the other side of the "Born Again" story. That's why I'm able to accept this new deficiency in his personality. I can understand why Foggy is the recipient of so much of his venom. During "Born Again" Miller showed the level of betrayal Matt felt from everyone in his life. I think it's great that Nocenti gave Glorianna that scene in which she calls out Matt's new bullish streak. I think it was an honest touch to have him fail to acknowledge how dead on she was in everything she said.

I wanted more from Karen in this issue. I was disappointed with her reaction to Matt's odd behaviour. She knows something is different about him, but she thinks, "I'm losing him, and I'm powerless to stop it!" Why does she think she's powerless? It's as if I incorrectly remembered the strength Nocenti gave Karen.

This story doesn't feel over. We know there is more, and I'm looking forward to us going forward with it. I give this issue a four out of five.

This story showed that Typhoid had enormous potential, but I don't think that potential was ever truly realized. That was mostly because no one outside of Nocenti knew what to do with the character. In a very short few years, Nocenti had Typhoid do battle with Ghost Rider and Spider-Man, and then had her star in her own awesome mini-series. Unfortunately other writers like D.G. Chichester, Brian Michael Bendis and Andy Diggle showed no understanding of how Typhoid Mary works. Hopefully someone comes along who does, because I find psychologically damaged villains particularly fascinating, and Typhoid has the potential to be one of the best.
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Mike Murdock
Golden Age


Joined: 08 Sep 2014
Posts: 1750

PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2018 6:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

^ I don't think any writer besides Nocenti has effectively written for Typhoid Mary. I'm looking forward to the mini coming up, but I have no reason to be optimistic.

Daredevil starts this issue in a sour mood and decides to be a moral crusader to assuage his guilt. At least, that's my interpretation of the opening scene. He recognizes his hypocrisy in what he does and what he's doing with Mary and takes it out on others engaged in petty crimes. Even with his guilt, it takes him essentially no time to fall into the same problems. He kisses Mary almost immediately after trying to create distance. Then he goes to Foggy. In some ways, what he says seems reasonable - Foggy works for the Kingpin and should work with him. But he is absolutely shaming him and I think Glori's right. To me, her scolding may be one of the most powerful moments in this issue.

I love the interaction with the Kingpin after bribing the juror. She's with the guy she's been with for awhile, but Fisk becomes angrier and angrier. There's definitely a sense that Typhoid knows how to use her sexual appeal to get what she wants in a world dominated by men (immediately after a scene where she tries to persuade the juror based on similar arguments). The fight with Mary was much better than last issue. I think our knowledge of DID was much less back then. I'm not sure one side would be aware of the other like they are. But it adds an interesting dynamic to break up a fight even when Daredevil loses.

There is a great formal structure of parallel panels with Daredevil and Mary climbing through windows, showing, etc. I give a lot of credit to John Romita Jr. for that. Likewise, although I don't know whose idea it was, the last panel of Mary works so well. Matt has won a great win but all we see is Mary and know that maybe he's lost instead. Four Stars.
_________________
Matt Murdock's cooler twin brother

Not sure what to read next? Check out the Book Club for some ideas!

I'd give the Devil benefit of law, for my own safety's sake!
Thomas More - A Man for All Seasons
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macjr33
Flying Blind


Joined: 22 Nov 2017
Posts: 97
Location: Pittsburgh, PA

PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2018 12:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not too much to add based on the great posts that were already made; however, I did want to take a moment to say that I thought Alice Eve's performance in Iron Fist season 2 was fantastic! The way that the she was able to play the two personalities was damn near perfect in my eyes.

Also, I loved the slow burn of there being a "third" identity and hope that maybe we get to see that play out in a future season of Daredevil.

Lastly, I'm glad they switched up the origin story a bit and looks like they left a lot to be explored there as well!
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