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DD Book Club - Fall From Grace
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Dimetre
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Joined: 16 Feb 2006
Posts: 1366
Location: Toronto

PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2018 7:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Once again, I think the main culprit that is preventing me from enjoying this issue is Scott McDaniel. I find his art and panel layout way too hard to follow. But D.G. Chichester has made some bizarre storytelling choices that I don't understand in any way.

I can't help but feel like I missed an issue, like there was part of the story I was supposed to read before this issue, but, no. For sure, 321 is the very next number after 320. I don't remember hearing about the Advanced Materials Institute before. I didn't know that Matt had a relationship with them. But there he is on the credits page wearing the 90s armoured outfit, without any explanation.

This is not how I remembered this costume debuting. For some reason I thought his identity was made public, so he faked Matt's death, came up with this Jack Batlin persona and then this new Daredevil outfit. I never liked that, but at least it could be argued that it made some sort of sense. This? His red costume was ruined by the Crippler, so he bought a new one from Advanced Materials Institute. This is just a dumb excuse to make Daredevil look more like a Rob Liefeld character.

I don't like the choice to have Hellspawn provide the first person narration over the beginning of this issue. It forces an added layer of removal from Matt, and I find that Chichester's version of Daredevil is already unknowable enough. On top of that, I don't like the rationale for the armoured costume.
Quote:
He tell himself, "Dis think red-suit is not enough against my enemies!" Back in dee small room he call home, a machine hums an apology. An' in dee heavy beat of his heart, dee red-man makes excuses for his sins. He remind himself dat a weakness in battle would leave dee "innocents" wit' no one to defend dem.

Matt has chosen the name Daredevil. That implies a certain amount of recklessness on his part, and a tendency to worry about his own protection less than others would. The choice to wear armour never matched Matt's attitude in my opinion.

Last issue ended with Hellspawn sneaking up behind Matt. This issue picks up with Hellspawn tracking Matt, and then Matt putting on his new costume. The credits page makes it look like the two are fighting, but we find out Matt can't even sense Hellspawn. So even though McDaniel draws this scene with the intensity of a fight, they're not actually fighting. Hellspawn is just tracking Matt, and Matt is confused by crumbling building falling on him. I was very confused too. McDaniel would have to struggle to make his art less detailed. It took me a while to figure out that Hellspawn formed a spiky billy club out of his thigh (or something.)

I don't know what Venom was doing hiding in a pile of heroin, but he wants the About Face virus too. On the plus side, there is a new sense of unity to the plots. Everybody seems to want the virus for their own specific reasons. It's even explained that Hellspawn wants the virus so he can become human. I don't remember being told that in the prologue issue. On the minus side, with all the plots, did we really need Venom added to the mix? Also, if we're going to have Venom in this story, was it such a good idea for Passim's first name to be Eddie?

I thought that the best scene in this issue was when Hellspawn attacks Daredevil while he's questioning Eddie Passim. Still, McDaniel's refusal to draw detail made the fight tough to follow, and some of the panels seemed to be layed out in the wrong order. Had a different artist drawn this issue, this scene may have worked better, but it was easily the strong point of this issue.

Other than that, Chichester seems to make a couple mistakes in this issue.

1. On page 8, Kenkoy find shuriken sunken into his computer. From that he concludes that it's the work of "ninja. Not the Hand... so it must be the Chaste!" Wait, the Hand aren't ninja? That's news to me. If the Hand aren't ninja, then what the heck are they?

2. Nick Fury is talking to Siege, saying
Quote:
Last election or so, the Hand goes to plant a ringer in the White House -- name'a Ken Wind -- Garrett an' a ninja named Elektra stop it. About a week ago, the Hand its the Pentagon. This comign on top'a that is too much coincidence fer me.

This is very problematic for me. First, the Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe places the events of Elektra: Assassin before her first appearance in Daredevil #168. Even if I buy that everything that happened between Elektra: Assassin and issue #321 took place in a compressed amount of time, I still find it a stretch that the Hand's plan with Ken Wind was hatched in the most recent American election. Secondly, as far as Fury would know, Wind would have still become president. Elektra simply placed Garrett's mind in Wind's body, and none were the wiser. It makes me wonder if Chichester, who is clearly a big fan of Frank Miller, really understood Elektra: Assassin.

So far, "Fall from Grace" seems to be a sloppily put together story. I can't really recommend this issue, so I'm giving it another 2.5 out of 5.
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Mike Murdock
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2018 7:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This issue starts in an odd place. There's a lot of technobabble about the new costume matched with Hellspawn's patois. This is the first time that I realized Matt stole the items he used to build his suit. Either way, the technobabble is designed to establish that this isn't armor, it's new technology that's durable while still maintaining flexibility. Luckily, the exposition is quickly over when we get action with Hellspawn pushing Matt out the window. This is the first look we get at the costume. It's interesting that it isn't a real hero pose that let's us fully see it. Instead, it's Daredevil in an acrobatic pose with the streets of Manhattan below. It's definitely designed to be a cool image with a full splash page devoted to it, but it's still weirdly small.

I said earlier that this cover is a gimmick cover done right. It's a glow in the dark image of Matt on top of Hellspawn. What makes this image so cool is, when you let it glow in the dark, Hellspawn disappears. It's almost as if the glow in the dark is Matt's radar sense. There are a lot of problems with Hellspawn, particular with the Haitian origins and patois (plus his awkward tie to Infinity War). But the reason I think he's actually an interesting character to play with is he emphasizes Matt's weaknesses, not his strengths. With him, Daredevil isn't the hero with enhances senses. With him, Daredevil is the hero who is blind.

Interestingly enough, another character was created precisely for a similar ability. Venom's original purpose was to have a character who was immune to Spider-Man's Spidey Sense. Speaking of, Venom appears in this issue - almost as if he has a movie coming out this week. His cameo here is gratuitous and pointless. His motivation is plausible but underwhelming. He wants to not have weaknesses, but nothing more.

Daredevil meets Eddie Passim again. This is the second time we get a look at the costume. It's a clearer, more traditional shot, but still only taking up a third of the page. The main story is relatively dull, but the hints of Elektra are more interesting. This is teased as her return and this is the first time Matt is aware of her. Just then, Hellspawn bursts in. As I said, his advantages make for an interesting fight. I just wish McGregor's art was a little clearer and easier to follow.

The rest of the issue doesn't feel worth commenting on. This is in theory the milestone issue, but it weirdly doesn't read like one. You would expect this issue to be all about how cool the new suit is. It really wasn't. It doesn't tear to pieces, but he doesn't win in the fight because of it. Instead, the focus on this issue was the same as the cover - Daredevil fighting Hellspawn. Despite the flaws in the character, I thought it made for an interesting dynamic. It's undeniably hurt by the difficulty in following the art. Really, this should have been the issue for the art to shine with the new costume and everything. Four Stars.

Dimetre wrote:

I can't help but feel like I missed an issue, like there was part of the story I was supposed to read before this issue, but, no. For sure, 321 is the very next number after 320.


Pretty much every issue in this story has had some kind of jump between issues.

Quote:
It took me a while to figure out that Hellspawn formed a spiky billy club out of his thigh (or something.)


I don't think I caught that at all until you mentioned it.

Quote:

This is very problematic for me. First, the Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe places the events of Elektra: Assassin before her first appearance in Daredevil #168.


To me, this has to be the case because the big thing is the Elektra from that story hadn't yet been purged of her darkness. I do think the "or so" makes it vague enough with Marvel's compressed time to make it work.

As for the rest, I think it's trying to reconcile a clearly out of continuity book into the continuity.
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Mike Murdock
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2018 9:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Daredevil Vol. 1 #322 - Fall From Grace, Part Three: Confrontation



Quote:

The Snakeroot's plan comes to a head! What do they hope to accomplish by kidnapping a cyborg S.H.I.E.L.D. agent and stealing a man-made virus? The answers involve someone close to Daredevil, and will shake his world to its very core!


Due 10/13
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Dimetre
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2018 12:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm finding "Fall From Grace" a frustrating read. It's progressing at a much slower pace than is necessary, simply because of the ridiculous number of subplots that have to be advanced from issue to issue. I think it would be a much better story if five of the subplots were thrown out. I didn't say "great." I said "better."

On the plus side -- I appreciated learning more about the "about face" virus. I liked that we got to see a Nick Fury with two eyes fight Kenkoy who was killing Teresa Bellwether to create the virus. I'm not sure how I felt about the Department of Defense sanctioning the project, and that Fury had no idea about it. So far, that sounds like a premise for a good S.H.I.E.L.D. story -- probably better than the Daredevil story we have here. Scott McDaniel's lack of detail made Fury's attack on Kenkoy very unclear. (It looks like Fury hurts him by clutching his sleeve.) That's par for the course with McDaniel.

Otherwise, the main development in this issue is that you can now add Siege to the list of people who want to get their mitts on the virus. Some readers may disagree with me about that, saying it was exciting to see Elektra open her eyes, but that is just one of the 16 subplots. If she opened her eyes, then why do the Snakeroot need the virus to resurrect her? If she's dead, then who is it who's fighting with her sai? Perhaps I'm jaded because Elektra's been back for decades since this story, but the Elektra subplot just isn't doing it for me.

A page is dedicated to some woman seeing Venom on the wing of the plane, advancing that subplot a millimetre. We get two pages of Matt and Foggy arguing, which suggests Foggy may know about Matt's "other life." That goes nowhere. The subplot with Urich and Sara Harrington would be interesting, but I didn't like the way Chichester wrote the break in to the apartment, or the way McDaniel drew it. I had no idea that Sara's hand got trapped in a filing cabinet when Urich hit it with the baseball bat, and I didn't like the way neither Doris or Ben have anything to say about the person who broke in to their apartment. We cut to Ben talking to some unnamed person on the phone, and he thinks the burglar was just looking for some money... in the filing cabinet. Urich is smarter than this. At least he should be.

I suppose the climax is supposed to be the fight between Daredevil, Siege and the Snakeroot. Honestly, it's not memorable. It feels like it exists simply because every comic needs a fight. There is a double page spread that's in black and white with Daredevil saying, "Now let's try this my way." I don't get the significance of that line. Normally, that line would suggest that he's plunging the place into darkness, which would give him the advantage. From what I gathered, the place was already dark, and we never see Daredevil shatter any light bulbs or throw any switches. Everyone else seems to see just as well as before. So I don't know why Daredevil said that line, or why the double page spread isn't coloured in.

This story is moving forward so slowly, and I wouldn't be surprised if we found out that "Fall From Grace" lost a lot of readers from issue to issue, because they couldn't be bothered to care about the story. The cliffhanger is Siege standing over Daredevil threatening to kill him. In 1993 did anyone care about Siege? Everything leading up to this was more of what "Fall From Grace" gave us before, and by now it was getting repetitive and annoying.

I give this a two out of five.
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Mike Murdock
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2018 7:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My thoughts echo yours about the pacing of the issue. It's Erinys (the woman who was killed a few issues ago by the Snakeroot) who has her eyes open this issue, not Elektra, if I'm not mistaken.

I'll be honest, I get completely emotionally drained every time I see SHIELD in this story. That being said, I'm mostly talking about the John Garrett stuff. I usually enjoy Nick Fury's past history and the fact that he was aware of and trying to stop About Face is a nice revelation. I don't think he's really needed and adds even more to this overcooked, half-baked story. Still, SHIELD has been involved in Chichester's Daredevil at least since Last Rites, so I'll begrudge them a little bit of room even if words don't describe how little I care about the John Garrett story.

We first see Daredevil in an opening splash page. I actually like when Scott McDaniel gets to do them. As a general rule, I can tell what's going on and they're usually pretty nice to look at. At a minimum, the issue needs more looks at the new costume they're trying to sell. He's talking with Eddie about the virus. It's mostly exposition we've seen before, but it helps bring people back to speed. What I like is that Eddie is able to referencing losing his loved one, which allows Matt to think of Elektra. They're really laying on that bringing Elektra back thing pretty thick. It's actually weird reading this after the recent Daredevil Season Three trailer. I keep thinking of a post-Guardian Devil world. When someone talks of Matt's loved one who died, it's Elektra, not Karen (although, even at this stage, I don't think Elektra is technically dead, even if Matt doesn't know that). Matt only has two dead lovers at this point and no one really cares about Heather Glenn.

All my comments about not caring about John Garrett apply double to Siege who I don't even know. Erynis is a bit better. I'm fine with a Dark Elektra with Elektra coming back. Even Hellspawn fits thematically with the dark selves aspect. But the character I care the least about in this story is Venom. He keeps coming back for pointless little scenes, referencing that he's the Lethal Protector, and then leaving. But, hey, I gather that this is only the second worst Venom thing that recently came out!

The Ben Urich story isn't necessarily all that interesting. What is interesting is the hints that Foggy knows Matt is Daredevil. He's very pissed off that Matt isn't doing his share of the work (understandable) and says he knows that Matt's "other life" is important to him. I believe this idea was abandoned before even the end of this story and certainly was abandoned by the time he does reveal his identity to Foggy, but I kind of like it to a degree. The longer Foggy is kept in the dark, the dumber he looks, which is the reason he was eventually let in on the secret. Still, as much as I like Matt and Foggy as buddies, there's a shocking number of times where all they do is bitch at each other.

Eddie's story does have a very real sadness to it - especially when we find out how they met essentially as tortured prisoners. Being telepaths, they were able to connect to each other when they couldn't connect to anyone else. In the end, you get the sense he's still being used by everyone. Matt wants to help him the most, but still is focused more on the mission. It's all downhill from there. I have to appreciate Eddie. When Siege shows up, he echoes my thoughts completely "No.. Not another one!" I feel the same way, Eddie. The all black and white page with the red around Daredevil's caption box is an interesting artistic choice. Unfortunately, it's hard to escape the feeling that it's a choice made without any rhyme or reason behind it. There's a colored version of that double page splash in the back of the Epic Collection and it's neither better nor worse. I guess it does make the "Now let's try it my way" sound more badass as Matt battles the Hand. Once again, Daredevil's new armor does nothing to help him in battle, but he is saved by a mysterious sai.

Once again, I don't give a crap about Siege or Venom or Snakeroot or John Garrett or Ben Urich in this story. But I think there's a grain of humanity in Eddie Passim's story that's worthwhile. I also like the hints of Elektra. But, other than that, this story is moving entirely too slow. We are four issues in and only getting the barest hints of progress as even more chaos gets added to this story. I don't know if it's any better or worse than the last couple issues, but the story as a whole is dragging on. Three Stars.
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Mike Murdock
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2018 10:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This week's issue is brought to you by Venom from Sony Pictures. Sadly, I couldn't time it just right to get this issue released last week. Actually, I feel like almost every rumored Sony movie would have been appropriate for this story with Silver Sable and Morbius also heavily featured.

Daredevil Vol. 1 #323 - Fall From Grace, Part Four: Conflict



Quote:

Dealing with the Snakeroot and their plans to unleash a virus was difficult enough, but now the sinister symbiote Venom makes his move!


Due 10/20
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Dimetre
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2018 12:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This came out at a time when I wasn't reading comics. The '90s are notorious for producing comics that prided style over substance, and this seems emblematic of that. Were all comics at the time this incomprehensible?

What I find most puzzling is that this issue doesn't take any advantage whatsoever of the previous issue's cliffhanger. Siege was standing over Daredevil and threatening to kill him. Flip forward to this issue's title page and they're suddenly partners fighting against the Snakeroot. How did that happen? What is the benefit of skipping crucial story beats? Was writing so unimportant in the 90s?

Now, maybe I haven't been paying close enough attention, or maybe it's hard for me to remember the massive assembly of characters populating this story, but I have no memory of Bisento from previous issues. When the villainous ninja taunt Daredevil for trying to save Bisento, I was confused, because I wasn't aware that he was trying to do that. It would have made more sense to me if he was trying to save Eddie Passim. That would have been consistent with previous issues. But no, we had to be introduced to a Snakeroot defector, and one who is foolish enough to hold back information until this issue's end.

It certainly doesn't help D.G. Chichester's convoluted story when you pair it up with Scott McDaniel's aversion for detail. A significant percentage of McDaniel's panels consist only of silhouettes, and Chichester clogs all the panels with multiple word balloons, making it a challenge to figure out which character is saying what line. It would have helped if Venom had his own style of word balloon, and for a while I thought he did, but that didn't last. A particularly glaring example of this was the page with Foggy and Karen. McDaniel draws a generic location with outlines of humans, and nobody's names are mentioned until the seventh word balloon. I had no idea that Foggy was in this scene. I had idea that Karen was there until the middle of the page. I had no idea what we were doing here. This is not only incompetent storytelling, but lazy sequential art.

But I don't think that was this issue's worst moment. There is a moment when Venom has Bisento trapped in his web. The following exchange happens.
Quote:
Venom: Give us the tramp Passim, and we'll give you your freedom! Or maybe you like our touch... Maybe you'd like it feeling its way under your skin and muscle to crush your heart!
Bisento: No! You would use him only as the Snakeroot plans -- to find the virus and use it only for your ends!
Venom: Our own ends! Ours! We will not be reduced to some pathetic individual!

Um... D.G.... you do realize that the word "your" is used for both second-person singular and plural, right? This is basic English. I don't know if English wasn't Chichester's first language, but this is something that shouldn't have made it to the final draft. I can't believe Ralph Macchio is credited as editor, because he presided over some of the greatest Daredevil stories of all time. But this error was inexcusable to me. It just told me that nobody involved with this cared about what they were doing, or had any standards of quality whatsoever.

As for the narrative, we get some backstory about Kenkoy's relationship with the Snakeroot. Sara Harrington approaches a rival paper called the Advocate to expose Daredevil's secret identity. (Wasn't Bendis innovative?) Foggy asks Karen to find out what Matt is doing outside of office hours (although us readers know that she knows the answer, so what is this side-plot for?). Garrett and Erynys storm Kenkoy's hideout. The readership is again teased about Elektra's return. And Venom attacks Daredevil and Siege.

The Venom plot takes up most of this issue, and isn't that interesting. He is here because he sold comics in the 90s, but he is simply another character that wants the virus. He wants it because he no longer wishes to be vulnerable to fire and sonics, yet he survives a huge explosion. What vulnerability to fire? Shouldn't that have been the end of Venom right there? Also, the way Daredevil finally got rid of Venom was a horrible let-down. It seemed shoehorned in because we had to have a cornball lesson for young readers about true heroism, and we couldn't let a character as popular as Venom be so brutally defeated by Siege.

I think this was an absolutely awful issue. I give it a one out of five. One of the worst issues of Daredevil I have ever read.
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Mike Murdock
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2018 4:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I know every issue has a gap between the last issue, but it's a complete copout to suggest a fight and then have two characters immediately teaming up the following issue. Now, Daredevil and Siege are teaming up against the Hand. But the fight is really important. How else would you know that his billy clubs can also turn into Nunchucks and Bo Staffs?

At this point, Venom shows up. Obviously, Venom was big in the 90s, so I don't entirely mind him appearing. He could be a good test for the new costume to show how badass the new DD is. The problem is, I don't really get the sense the costume is any different. I guess it hasn't torn yet. Instead, it feels like Siege is the one who handles Venom. I like the way McDaniel draws him, though.

Probably the most clever moment is the debate about whether to run the Daredevil is Matt Murdock headline. It's such a cynical view of the media that they would go from hesitating whether to run a story to being enthusiastic simply by pretending to ask a question. Sadly, what makes it work is how true it rings. In the Foggy and Karen side of things, it becomes clear that maybe Foggy doesn't know what Matt's up to. I'm not sure Karen as an anti-pornography crusader is the most exciting of paths for the character, but it's good to see her taking a more active role in the book (even if I know it won't last).

Then we get to the point I completely gave up on this series, the next fight with Venom. In it, the two sides dance around for a bit and then stop to talk it out. Daredevil gives a speech and, because of that, Venom writes himself out of the book. It's a complete anti-climax and I'm left wondering what the point was of having him in the book in the first place. I mean, the answer is obvious - there was no point!

I feel inspired to link to my original thoughts of the prologue and part one I posted four years ago

Quote:
What a bunch of self-indulgent masturbation (granted, most masturbation is self-indulgent). Don't get me wrong, it's not bad. I'm enjoying it for what it's worth, but I've barely started and I can already see it going off the rails.* There's just way too many things going on and every little thing is a big buildup to something else. There's never just an attempt to enjoy the moment and experience the story. Granted, that may change, I've only gone through the prologue and half of part one. Things may change.

* Given the subway part of the story, I suppose I should add "no pun intended." However, I obviously not only deliberately left in the unintentional pun but I'm now calling attention to it, which might be worse.

ETA: And now Venom is somehow involved? Good Lord!


Yeah, I stand by those thoughts. Just to wrap up the issue, the remaining bits are not good. I'm a little unclear whether Daredevil sees Elektra, then we see some really shoehorned in exposition with John Garrett and Erynis appearing, and then the issue ends.

I'm fighting a bit of a cold so I'm not in the right mindset to appreciate this story, but I don't think I'd ever be in the right state of mind. This really is the issue everything falls apart for me. Aside from the moment with the media, I don't think there are many redeeming qualities from this story.

I'm giving this Two Stars, which would make it my lowest scored DD issue, iirc.
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Mike Murdock
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2018 4:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dimetre wrote:

Now, maybe I haven't been paying close enough attention, or maybe it's hard for me to remember the massive assembly of characters populating this story, but I have no memory of Bisento from previous issues.


Yeah, I couldn't remember Bisento in the slightest. Marvel Wikia suggests he appeared in issue #321. If he's in that story, he's an unnamed background character. I truly have no idea where he came from.

Quote:
But I don't think that was this issue's worst moment. There is a moment when Venom has Bisento trapped in his web. The following exchange happens.
Quote:
Venom: Give us the tramp Passim, and we'll give you your freedom! Or maybe you like our touch... Maybe you'd like it feeling its way under your skin and muscle to crush your heart!
Bisento: No! You would use him only as the Snakeroot plans -- to find the virus and use it only for your ends!
Venom: Our own ends! Ours! We will not be reduced to some pathetic individual!

Um... D.G.... you do realize that the word "your" is used for both second-person singular and plural, right? This is basic English. I don't know if English wasn't Chichester's first language, but this is something that shouldn't have made it to the final draft. I can't believe Ralph Macchio is credited as editor, because he presided over some of the greatest Daredevil stories of all time. But this error was inexcusable to me. It just told me that nobody involved with this cared about what they were doing, or had any standards of quality whatsoever.


Honestly, the stupidity of that just made me laugh more than anything else. Poor Ralph Macchio. He was there forever, but this whole thing is inexplicable.
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Mike Murdock
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2018 11:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Daredevil Vol. 1 #324 - Fall From Grace, Part Five: Descent



Quote:

Daredevil's list of problems keeps growing and growing! To find the Snakeroot, he may have to seek out the help of Morbius the Living Vampire. He must also face the Snakeroot's warped doppelganger of the woman he loved- Elektra. And worst of all, his secret identity is on display in the newspapers for all the world to see!


Due 10/27
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Dimetre
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2018 7:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"Fall From Grace" has been a difficult story to follow, but this issue was even more so. I was thankful that Venom was taken out of the story by the end of the last issue, but here we have Morbius coming in and filling that void.

It is absolutely maddening how every issue has to start with Daredevil in the middle of a fight that isn't tied in any way to the end of the previous issue. Here we have Daredevil and Stone tangling with Morbius and Enteki from the Snakeroot (another character who I don't think we've met previously). I suppose it makes sense that Stone would take part in a fight against the Snakeroot, but I didn't know why Morbius would be involved. It's particularly laughable that late in this issue Matt says, "Too bad Siege took himself out of the loop -- he was afraid the virus was too much temptation for his own problems -- he could've used his hardware to track Morbius through the walls." It seemed like they just swapped in Stone for Siege without any rhyme or reason, and the story took the time to acknowledge that it happened off panel.

I don't have too much to say about the story. Daredevil and Stone went to Morbius to get his medical insight about the virus, and they get it. I, however, think the story could have proceeded without it. Was this just a way to bring Morbius into the story? He's heavily featured on the cover. Would a comic featuring Morbius sell well in 1993? I didn't think that Morbius was that much of a star back then, unless those episodes of the animated Spider-Man series were more popular than I realized. I suppose Morbius is yet another character that has a motive for going after the virus, but do we really need another one of those? I have to give Morbius one point though for his little jab at Daredevil's new costume. "This new look left me wondering who you were, Daredevil.... It still does." Nice.

As for the Advocate outing Matt as Daredevil, McDaniel's art is very hard to follow. Matt leaps across a gap, and enters a window into someone's apartment. Is it his? It would seem so, but then why is he fiddling with what looks like a straight razor, and what is he biting down on. I just can't figure it out.

The scene with the different Snakeroot characters did not interest me in the slightest.

The fight between Daredevil, Stone, Garrett and Erynys was kind of sloppy. In one panel she is a one-on-one fight with Daredevil, then she grabs Stone's arm. She tells him that it's too late for him to grow hard. How is it too late. He was able to turn hard quick enough to prevent Morbius from biting him. Does Erynys have some trick to prevent Stone from using his ability to make his skin inpenetrable?

Elektra finally shows up at the end of this issue, and as much as I complain about McDaniel's refusal to draw detail, I have to give him kudos for his close-up on Elektra's face. He takes a lot of cues from Frank Miller, especially the texture of her lips. It's a beautiful drawing, and fans must have been very excited by her return.

Getting there, however, was a real slog. Could any fan back then have been very invested at all in the search for this virus? And if you're allowed to just switch up the cast of characters around Daredevil willy-nilly with minimal explanation, how much as a reader can you be expected to care?

This cliffhanger has me curious as to how the next issue is going to begin, but I can't pretend that there was anything good preceding the cliffhanger apart from Morbius' wisecrack about the new costume. I give this issue two out of five.
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Dimetre
Underboss


Joined: 16 Feb 2006
Posts: 1366
Location: Toronto

PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2018 12:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In The Devil is in the Details, Julian Darius brings up a key failing that slipped by me as I was reading #324.
Quote:
After readers saw the sai at the end of Daredevil #319, Daredevil began finding similar evidence. In issue #321 (Oct 1993), Daredevil finds holes in a wall and identifies them as having been left by a sai. In issue #322 (Nov 1993), he finds an actual sai in a dead man's back....
The sais weren't explained until the storyline's penultimate issue (#324, Jan 1994), which reveals that Stone has been wielding them, not Elektra. Stone was a part of the Chaste, the Hand's opposite -- a group of good ninjas that included Stick, the character Miller invented as the person who had trained Daredevil. Stone had a role in the crucial Daredevil #190, helping Daredevil confront the Hand's plan to resurrect Elektra. Here again, Chichester honored Miller's earlier work.
This revelation made the sais we'd been sing simple misdirection. The only living Elektra was apparently Erynys, a perversion based on Garrett's memory of the assassin he knew....

You have to wonder what was the point of this misdirect if Chichester was going to have Elektra show up anyway at the issue's end. The whole story seems so haphazardly thrown together.
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Mike Murdock
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2018 6:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

^ Did they possibly reveal it was Stone and not Elektra last issue? I don't know. I agree it's a pointless misdirect.

I'm never sure which pages are the added pages. The trade, at least, has a lengthy prelude that basically recaps Elektra's entire life. Some recap is reasonable (every comic is somebody's first), but this feels a little excessive. That being said, they're selling everyone on Elektra's return, which is important. Although it affirms the confusion I've always had over Elektra's death. She came back at the end of the story. Matt didn't know it and I understand his grief, but she hasn't been dead for a long time at this point. This is more a criticism going forward where Matt still holds Bullseye responsible for killing someone who isn't dead.

Anyway, each issue has had a time jump. This time jump has left me completely confused. Apparently Daredevil is with someone named Enteki who I guess is Snakeroot. Michael Morbius is hunting both of them. I guess Stone is there too. Seriously, I've had to do outside research to figure out what was going on and it's taken me entirely too long. The only redeeming quality of this fight is they finally do what I've been asking them to do - have Daredevil's new costume prove useful over the old one. I'm not sure I like the idea of Daredevil just taking a stabbing over dodging but, if you have the new armor, use it.

The next scene is in Battery Park. I was in Battery Park when I visited New York during Comic Con. I somehow didn't realize what the East Coast Memorial was, though. I like that Chichester throws in some clear New York references. I like far less that he just writes pointless cameos out even more pointlessly. Bye bye Siege. I still have no idea who you are. I'll admit, I hated Morbius's addition, but having him as the technobabble guy is clever and added some important exposition. If this were a Spider-Man comic, I'd imagine Doc Connors doing it. Maybe his cameo is less gratuitous than Venom's.

There are so many storylines going on and it's hard to comment on everything. I'll admit I've read this story at least three times and this is the first time I caught that we see Matt sneak in and blindproof his apartment. It also leads to a nice moment with Foggy and Karen and the few references to the law as Foggy tries to protect Matt. Finally, the reunion at the end, the moment we were waiting for, feels as rushed and confused as everything else.

Three Stars. There are some good moments, but they don't add up to good whole.
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Mike Murdock
Golden Age


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 28, 2018 8:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Last one!

Daredevil Vol. 1 #325 - Fall From Grace, Finale: Salvation for the Damned



Quote:

Elektra lives! Hellspawn strikes! Morbius hungers! The Snakeroot and Daredevil have their final showdown as everything comes to a head!


Due 11/3
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Dimetre
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 28, 2018 3:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I feel like "Fall From Grace" was constructed with a very loose plan, and a lot of editorial interference. I'm guessing that orders came from on high for Chichester to shoehorn in Venom and Morbius any way he could, and such directives prevented him from progressing the story in ways he originally intended. That could be why the past few issues have felt like so much marching in place, forcing this issue to be giant-sized, with all of the disjointed plots hurtling towards the finish line in a maelstrom of chaos.

We begin with Elektra trying to pull Hellspawn off of Daredevil. At the end of the previous issue, was Hellspawn around? The cliffhanger was the reveal of Elektra, but I honestly can't remember Hellspawn being there. This doesn't seem like a time jump, because it seems like Matt has not been able to ask her how she's alive. He tells here, "There's a lot of questions that need to be answered here, Elektra." I feel that if there were a time jump, he would have been able to get some of those questions answered, even though she resents being alive, and somehow holds him responsible regardless of the fact he has nothing to do with her being alive -- just for her soul being purified. I honestly don't know what narrative purpose these time jumps that begin every issue are supposed to serve. What rationalization could Chichester possibly make to not begin issues where previous issues left off?

I found that there were some powerful moments scattered amongst the chaos. While I thought it was dumb for Matt to thrust his fist in front of Elektra's face shouting, "This is what you need!" I did like some of his speech that followed: "Life's not peace on a mountain or in a grave! It's passion -- vitality! Life is feeling..." That dialogue was accompanied by a nice panel by McDaniel of Elektra finding comfort in Daredevil's embrace.

That is immediately followed by a completely nonsensical change of scene. Suddenly Matt is with Karen in his office. To be honest, as corny as it was that they still had the two halves of the torn-up heart, it was a tender moment between the two. Unfortunately it's only a couple of pages later that we rejoin Daredevil and Elektra searching for the virus. How is that supposed to work? Did he tell Elektra to look at something exciting over yonder, dart over to where Karen was, have that scene and dart back over to Elektra with her being none the wiser? These are mistakes a kid would make on a storytelling assignment in elementary school.

Once Daredevil and Elektra find the virus, the comic becomes almost impossible to follow. I challenge anyone to tell me where the container holding the virus is from panel to panel. I challenge anyone to tell me where the characters are standing in relation to each other in the subway tunnel. At the bottom of one page, it looks like Hellspawn is attacking Daredevil. At the top of the next page we have a couple of panels of characters other than Daredevil, then a panel of Daredevil and Elektra fighting members of the Snakeroot. Then we get the page of Eddie killing himself and a member of the Snakeroot. (I am quite unclear how that happens and I don't really care.) The very next page begins with Daredevil and Elektra alone in an abandoned train car. They were just fighting some Snakeroot. How did they get away from everyone else?

Because McDaniel's artwork is so unclear, it took me a while to figure out what Elektra did to Hellspawn. I didn't make the link between what she was talking about with Daredevil in the train car and whatever the hell we were looking at. Did they guess that Erynys was going to immediately kill Hellspawn?

As for what happened between Erynys and Elektra, that didn't make any sense to me. Had Erynys been killed without Elektra getting wounded, would her dark essence not have gotten sucked inside her? Is that what this comic is saying? What does a physical wound have to do with a soul's ability to go inside someone's body? That made no sense to me. What if Daredevil had cut himself on one of those pointy weapons inside his billy-club? Would Erynys' dark essence have gone inside him? And why on earth does Daredevil have lethal weapons in his billy-club?

For some reason it was necessary to return Siege to the story, although I don't think he brought anything new to the story other than knocking Garrett unconscious.

As for Matt faking his death by using Hellspawn's dead corpse as a decoy, that decision came completely out of nowhere. He mentioned to Karen that everyone in his life is now unsafe, but this seems like a very drastic step. We're not told what everyone thinks the circumstances surrounding Matt Murdock's murder are.

The scene with Sister Maggie was nice, and the final splash page by McDaniel is cool, but this issue was a slog to get through. No one in the Snakeroot is compelling in any way, and every time we get a panel or a page dealing with them, my disinterest becomes palpable. No effort has been made to have the action flow from panel to panel in a way that makes sense.

I also feel we missed out on a cool opportunity here. By having Erynys' dark essence go inside Elektra, we missed out on spending time with the pure Elektra. What would she have been like? I guess we'll never know.

I give this issue a two out of five.

This was an ambitious story, but Chichester proved himself incapable of managing all the moving parts, many of which were unnecessary. If we had focused on Eddie and his effect on the homeless, with Daredevil having to stop Silver Sable from finding him for Kenkoy, that could have been an interesting story, but they insisted on adding seven more sub-plots, and McDaniel showed no interest in drawing detail throughout the story, making so many things impossible to figure out. This was one of the worst arcs in a Daredevil comic I have ever read, even though I bet "Tree of Knowledge" is even worse. (Shadowland was its own series, with the Daredevil issues existing as Shadowland tie-ins.) I'm giving the entire story a two out of five.
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