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DareDevil #86 SPOILERS
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DDmikeMN
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Joined: 13 Aug 2004
Posts: 800
Location: Evanston, IL

PostPosted: Thu Jun 29, 2006 4:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why would Bullseye "automatically" kill Matt again? I know there's something humiliating about the same guy whupping your butt for years. But I was always under the impression that Bulls' hated Matt for professional, not personal reasons.
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Stephan
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Joined: 30 Sep 2004
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 29, 2006 10:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Marvel Knights era has been unkind to the once-mighty Wilson Fisk, has it not? Fisk was shot multiple times by the brother of his deceased custodian, then plummeted hundreds of feet into a river. Shortly thereafter, he was shot and blinded by Echo. Later, he was impaled with knives by disgruntled associates, abandoned by his estranged wife, rendered penniless, savagely beaten by DD and imprisoned. Now, an errant bullet strikes him in the leg! Bad karma, perhaps?
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Forrest
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Joined: 07 Dec 2004
Posts: 1439

PostPosted: Fri Jun 30, 2006 12:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, I got my issue one day later than usual because I went to Superman, right after work, yesterday. (It was SO GOOD!!! Cool

Anyway, everyone beat me to my thoughts on this issue: perhaps the best vol. 2 issue, and among the greatest DD issues ever. (Maybe I exageratted some previously posted opinions.)

If I were to reserve myself from the initial high of reading this issue and my bias in favor of all things Brubaker, I'd still say this issue is tied with #15 and #32 for my favorite DD vol. 2 issue.

Brubaker's DD has the grit of Bendis and Miller, the fearlessness and power of Chichester, all with the epic tone and pace of... well, Brubaker! Very Happy

Seriously, in my opinion, this writer is going to leave a more important mark on DD than Miller did.
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Solid Snake PAC
Playing to the Camera


Joined: 24 Jan 2006
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 30, 2006 1:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have to agree...Brubaker is a natural at this Crime Noir stuff. I liked Bendis on DD, but you could tell he was really trying to get it....and he did but it took him a couple issues in every arc to get it. With Brubaker he understands that type of enviroment, situations, and the excellant Drama in Crime Noir off the bat. I must say...noboby's been this impressive when new guys are brought in on a comic unlike Lark and Brubaker. I can't think of any...say for Miller.
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Stephan
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Joined: 30 Sep 2004
Posts: 303

PostPosted: Fri Jun 30, 2006 4:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

#86 was stellar, I agree. The faulty judgement of some of the characters in #86, however, continues to puzzle me. Becky's ill-advised, foolhardy decision to escort Milla to the prison, for example. How could Becky be so unthinking? And Fisk assumed that Matt would join forces with Bullseye?! Bullseye, the man who slaughtered Karen and injured Sister Maggie?! Fisk seldom miscalculates (his current predicament notwithstanding). How, then, could he have made such a blunder? Carelessness on the part of Brubaker, or is there some alternative explanation?
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Murdock Bell
Flying Blind


Joined: 26 Mar 2005
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 30, 2006 5:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Stephan wrote:
And Fisk assumed that Matt would join forces with Bullseye?! Bullseye, the man who slaughtered Karen and injured Sister Maggie?!



Why not, at that point, and in that context?

After all, Fisk himself is partially responsible for Karen's death-- being the one who gave away his identity and all--as well as countless other atrocities either directly tied to Matt's life, or to millions of other innocents'.

It was readily apparant that Matt was already suffering the effects of a morally downward spiral, and once it was clear Matt was willing to compromise his values and hitch his cart to Kingpin's wagon, involving Bullseye was the next logical step.

It was still a risk for Fisk, but a calculated one; given that the only other prisoner with the abilities necessary to help them was The Punisher--and the Punisher would put a bullet in Fisk's head as soon as he was handed a shotgun--it's not like Kingpin had a lot of choice in the matter.

Not with the entire rest of the prison rioting for his head.

In the end, it might've even worked, if Milla's earlier talk hadn't galvanised his moral center somewhat.

OTOH, given that Matt handed Punisher a gun, Matt's ethical pendelum is far from having swung back the other way, yet.
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Clayton Blind Love
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Joined: 30 Jul 2004
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 30, 2006 7:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Murdock Bell wrote:

OTOH, given that Matt handed Punisher a gun, Matt's ethical pendelum is far from having swung back the other way, yet.


Very well noted indeed. Unless, Matt emptied the chamber and is hoping the sight of the Punisher with a shotgun is fear enough for anyone attempting to get in their way. Somehow I don't think this is the case though.

C.
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Last edited by Clayton Blind Love on Sat Jul 01, 2006 1:22 am; edited 1 time in total
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Clayton Blind Love
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 30, 2006 7:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Stephan wrote:
And Fisk assumed that Matt would join forces with Bullseye?!


Well, if that was the case, then Fisk would of told Matt up front that Bullseye was going to aid them. The very fact that this did not happen explicitly indicates that Fisk knew Matt would want no part of this. Fisk could only hope that the immediate danger of the riot would of forced Matt to go with this plan. This he did, for a short while.

C.
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Stephan
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 30, 2006 7:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello Clayton! But what, exactly, would have ensued had they succeeded in escaping the prison? Could The Kingpin, Bullseye and DD have coexisted even for a nanosecond outside prison walls? Highly improbable, given the enmity between Lester (last name still undisclosed) and Matthew. Matt has collaborated with Fisk in times past, but he would NEVER knowingly join forces with Bullseye. Either Fisk intended to have Matt slain subsequent to the escape, or he made a major (and very uncharacteristic) miscalculation. Or - perhaps Fisk (and the seemingly irrational Becky and Milla, for that matter) are under the influence of a cunning villan with persuasive powers.
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Clayton Blind Love
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 30, 2006 7:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh I'm pretty positive that someone would of been shoved off the helicopter somewhere over the water. Twisted Evil

C.
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Last edited by Clayton Blind Love on Sat Jul 01, 2006 1:22 am; edited 1 time in total
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Stephan
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 30, 2006 7:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hmm...Killgrave is a duplicitous, devious individual (remember the harm he inflicted on Heather Glenn's family in the 70s). He could very well be the culprit. If Killgrave is indeed the guilty party, it would explain the perplexing behavior of some of players in this drama. Why did the FBI Director abruptly (and inexplicably) become a DD antagonist? His Perhaps Killgrave "persuaded" him that DD was a menace.
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MacTemple
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Joined: 30 Jun 2006
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 01, 2006 10:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think Fisk thinking Matt would go along with letting Bullseye come with them was a bit weak, maybe. But Becky Blake and Mila showing up didn't seem that out of character. Reading the scene, Milla says she insisted, and she is the client's wife. Becky even said that Ryker's beefed up their security since Foggy's death. It's like when someone gets food poisoning at Jack in the Box, from that point on, that's probably the safest Jack in the Box to eat at, because they're going to be extra careful. Rykers is a federal prison, so they're going to have lawyers visiting clients every day. Plus the guard who got Foggy killed is dead. I don't see that as that big a deal, Becky and Mila showing up. It's not like they know there's going to be a riot.
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MercifulAvatar
Playing to the Camera


Joined: 27 Apr 2005
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Location: NEO, US

PostPosted: Sat Jul 01, 2006 12:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Stephan wrote:
Hmm...Killgrave is a duplicitous, devious individual .... He could very well be the culprit.


Stephan, you clever bastage! I bet... I hope you are correct, sir!
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DDmikeMN
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 01, 2006 1:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Last time I saw Purple Man was at the breakout at The Raft. I thought Luke Cage beat him up and he was one of the characters who was recaptured already. I would chalk the FBI director's attitude to the anti-heros sentiment which lead to the Registration Act in "Civil War".
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The Overlord
Paradiso


Joined: 22 Aug 2004
Posts: 1095

PostPosted: Sun Jul 02, 2006 11:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DDmikeMN wrote:
Last time I saw Purple Man was at the breakout at The Raft. I thought Luke Cage beat him up and he was one of the characters who was recaptured already. I would chalk the FBI director's attitude to the anti-heros sentiment which lead to the Registration Act in "Civil War".


More recently Killgrave became a pawn of Zemo in Thunderbolts. Zemo secretly released Killgrave, helped PM mind control the city, Killgrave bugged the Thunderbolts for a while, Genis drove PM insane with cosmic awareness powers. Zemo captured PM again, tortured him and then sent him back to prison.
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