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Marvel Universe = Coocoo Land
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The Overlord
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Joined: 22 Aug 2004
Posts: 1095

PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2006 5:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

fox_limbo wrote:
The idea of Bulleye being in a team (of any sort) is the flaw here. He only acts on his own sadistic impulses. Bullseye simply does not conform to anything. Period.


What if a very rich and powerful individual was willing to hire Bullseye at 3 times his normal rate, but he would have to join a team of assassins for the mission, are saying he would turn down the job?
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james castle
Devil in Cell-Block D


Joined: 30 Jul 2004
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Location: Toronto, Ontario

PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2006 6:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Okay, one more reply. But only cuz it's funny.

The Master Meglomaniac wrote:

Your calling me a child, first of all I think therew are rules against directly insu8lting people on this board and you also debate in a condescending maner, you treat your own opinions as if their God's gift to man and treat anyone who disagrees with your opinions with contempt.


Look, I'm not trying to insult you. I'm just saying that you write and argue in such a way as to give off the impression that you are a child or are otherwise someone of tender years. For example, I can't begin to list the number of things wrong with the above sentence. The mystery "8" is a nice touch.

The Master Meglomaniac wrote:

You don't have a bais to criticize anyone's debating style.


That doesn't make any sense. It's not even a sentence. However, in the spirit of being nice I'm going to assume you meant to say "you don't have the right to criticize people's various debating style". In response to that, now proper, sentence I'll just say: oh yes I do.

The Master Meglomaniac wrote:

You don't like me calling calling it DD universe, your arguing semantics not facts right now.


The FACT that the Marvel Universe is meant to be one solid universe is a FACT. I'm arguing facts, thank you very much. Hey, and just for fun: define semantics for me.

The Master Meglomaniac wrote:

Regardless for the most part the thunderbolts title has never affected the dD title and I don't see the loss of Bullseye for the time being as a big loss for the DD title.


Who's talking about "the loss of Bullseye for the time being as a big loss for the DD title". I never said that. This whole time I've only ever been complaining about mischaracterization.

The Master Meglomaniac wrote:

I brought up other titles for a reason like the suicide squad, that you seemed to ignore, other books have borrowed super villains from heroes to create a new book and it didn't have a negative effect on the titles those villains were taken from,


Again, the issue isn't (and never has been) villians being borrowed. The issue is villians being written way out of character. I honestly don't think you appreciate this. Failure to comprehend what someone is saying is something someone of tender years might do and you've done it. Soooooo.

The Master Meglomaniac wrote:

so why are you complaining, are you a Thunderbolts fan?


What are you talking about?

The Master Meglomaniac wrote:

Now as for bullseye not being a team player, if someone hired him (for a ton of money) to kill somone but would only hire him if he was part of a team assassins instead of working on his own, are saying he would say no because he would only want to work on his own? I find that a bit hard to believe. He has obession with DD, which would mean that Bullseye would want the sole credit of killing him and would be unwilling to help others kill him, but I don't see why that be the case for other targets.


Where is this stuff coming from?

The Master Meglomaniac wrote:

As for MU US governemnt being stupid, well yeah that's true, having a team composed of psychos like Bullseye and Gobby is pretty dumb. But frankly the mU uS governemnt has been stupid for the past 20 years. How many times have created Sentinel robots only to have reprogramed by a super villain or have them decide that sentinels should take over the earth on their own. at least hiring Bullseye doesn't put the whole world in danger, unlike building Sentinels (remember Onslaught). So the MU US government was stupid long before they hired Bullseye and Gobby. Again unless your a thunderbolts fan, why are complaining?


The MU US government is not stupid. They're not anything since they're make believe. The point of this thread is that the Marvel Editors are stupid.

Sigh.
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fox_limbo
Humanity's Fathom


Joined: 01 Aug 2004
Posts: 335

PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2006 6:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Master Meglomaniac wrote:
fox_limbo wrote:
The idea of Bulleye being in a team (of any sort) is the flaw here. He only acts on his own sadistic impulses. Bullseye simply does not conform to anything. Period.


What if a very rich and powerful individual was willing to hire Bullseye at 3 times his normal rate, but he would have to join a team of assassins for the mission, are saying he would turn down the job?


It has been blatantly evident, time and time again, that Bullseye has absolutely no remorse for his actions. He has zero respect for human life, and with that, he has absolutely no respect for authority on any level. Based on that, it is inconceivable that he would conform to a "team" setting, and honor the code of "rules" that lie therein.

Would he take money to do a job? Well, ya got me threre. He is, afterall, a hired assassin. It's what he does. With much glee, might I add.

Would it be possible that he contorts his bombastic holier-than-thou attitude within the cookie-cutter confines of a team atmosphere? I would say, given his character, "no". He would not. But since when has that stopped Marvel in the past? ...because we all know how faithful Marvel is to character continuity. Rolling Eyes

But, let's say for argument's sake, it did happen. Bulleye found himself "slumming it" in a team. I would think he would have to be blackmailed or he would have some other alterior motive. It's true Bullseye is a tool... but, let's face it, he is far from the sharpest tool in the proverbial shed. He would not have the dicipline to formulate a drawn out game of personal espionage of that sort. Therefore, it would have to be blackmail, by default... perhaps a government-promised amnesty?

Regardless, I would not waste my time or money on such a lame story. Marvel can count me out on any "Thunderbolts" incarnation (past or present).
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The Overlord
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Joined: 22 Aug 2004
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2006 8:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

james castle wrote:
Okay, one more reply. But only cuz it's funny.

The Master Meglomaniac wrote:

Your calling me a child, first of all I think therew are rules against directly insu8lting people on this board and you also debate in a condescending maner, you treat your own opinions as if their God's gift to man and treat anyone who disagrees with your opinions with contempt.


Look, I'm not trying to insult you. I'm just saying that you write and argue in such a way as to give off the impression that you are a child or are otherwise someone of tender years. For example, I can't begin to list the number of things wrong with the above sentence. The mystery "8" is a nice touch.

The Master Meglomaniac wrote:

You don't have a bais to criticize anyone's debating style.


That doesn't make any sense. It's not even a sentence. However, in the spirit of being nice I'm going to assume you meant to say "you don't have the right to criticize people's various debating style". In response to that, now proper, sentence I'll just say: oh yes I do.

The Master Meglomaniac wrote:

You don't like me calling calling it DD universe, your arguing semantics not facts right now.


The FACT that the Marvel Universe is meant to be one solid universe is a FACT. I'm arguing facts, thank you very much. Hey, and just for fun: define semantics for me.

The Master Meglomaniac wrote:

Regardless for the most part the thunderbolts title has never affected the dD title and I don't see the loss of Bullseye for the time being as a big loss for the DD title.


Who's talking about "the loss of Bullseye for the time being as a big loss for the DD title". I never said that. This whole time I've only ever been complaining about mischaracterization.

The Master Meglomaniac wrote:

I brought up other titles for a reason like the suicide squad, that you seemed to ignore, other books have borrowed super villains from heroes to create a new book and it didn't have a negative effect on the titles those villains were taken from,


Again, the issue isn't (and never has been) villians being borrowed. The issue is villians being written way out of character. I honestly don't think you appreciate this. Failure to comprehend what someone is saying is something someone of tender years might do and you've done it. Soooooo.

The Master Meglomaniac wrote:

so why are you complaining, are you a Thunderbolts fan?


What are you talking about?

The Master Meglomaniac wrote:

Now as for bullseye not being a team player, if someone hired him (for a ton of money) to kill somone but would only hire him if he was part of a team assassins instead of working on his own, are saying he would say no because he would only want to work on his own? I find that a bit hard to believe. He has obession with DD, which would mean that Bullseye would want the sole credit of killing him and would be unwilling to help others kill him, but I don't see why that be the case for other targets.


Where is this stuff coming from?

The Master Meglomaniac wrote:

As for MU US governemnt being stupid, well yeah that's true, having a team composed of psychos like Bullseye and Gobby is pretty dumb. But frankly the mU uS governemnt has been stupid for the past 20 years. How many times have created Sentinel robots only to have reprogramed by a super villain or have them decide that sentinels should take over the earth on their own. at least hiring Bullseye doesn't put the whole world in danger, unlike building Sentinels (remember Onslaught). So the MU US government was stupid long before they hired Bullseye and Gobby. Again unless your a thunderbolts fan, why are complaining?


The MU US government is not stupid. They're not anything since they're make believe. The point of this thread is that the Marvel Editors are stupid.

Sigh.


Your trying to bust me for typos? You know you sound like this person: http://redwing.hutman.net/~mreed/warriorshtm/grammarian.htm
Unless your my professor or my boss I don't give a damn what you think about by writing style, I didn't have tme to proof read it, so get off my back.

You have the gall to say I act like a child, when you act like an arrogant jerk, treating your opinions like their the word of God and treating everyone who disagrees with you like an idiot. Maybe you should stop acting like an arrogant jerk and start acting like a human being before you criticize the way others act.

Semantics, from websters:

the study of meanings: a : the historical and psychological study and the classification of changes in the signification of words or forms viewed as factors in linguistic development b (1) : SEMIOTIC (2) : a branch of semiotic dealing with the relations between signs and what they refer to and including theories of denotation, extension, naming, and truth
2 : GENERAL SEMANTICS
3 a : the meaning or relationship of meanings of a sign or set of signs; especially : connotative meaning b : the language used (as in advertising or political propaganda) to achieve a desired effect on an audience especially through the use of words with novel or dual meanings

I was taking about individual titles can be seen as their own self contained universes that deal with their own unique dynamics, even they are all part of Marvel Universe. X-Men Title is fundamanetally different than the FF title. I have heard people online refer to the X Universe or the Spider Universe before, so back off.

As for Bullseye being written out of character, he's assassin the only difference is he's killing people for Uncle Sam instead of for the Kingpin, I don't see that big a difference. The team is filled with psychos who more powerful then him, like Gobby and Venom who could take him out if need be. Of course allowing that many psychos on one team is trouble and likely a bad idea, but the MU US governemnt has been written as being run by morons for the past 20 years, what's so different about this?
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The Overlord
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Joined: 22 Aug 2004
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2006 8:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

fox_limbo wrote:
The Master Meglomaniac wrote:
fox_limbo wrote:
The idea of Bulleye being in a team (of any sort) is the flaw here. He only acts on his own sadistic impulses. Bullseye simply does not conform to anything. Period.


What if a very rich and powerful individual was willing to hire Bullseye at 3 times his normal rate, but he would have to join a team of assassins for the mission, are saying he would turn down the job?


It has been blatantly evident, time and time again, that Bullseye has absolutely no remorse for his actions. He has zero respect for human life, and with that, he has absolutely no respect for authority on any level. Based on that, it is inconceivable that he would conform to a "team" setting, and honor the code of "rules" that lie therein.

Would he take money to do a job? Well, ya got me threre. He is, afterall, a hired assassin. It's what he does. With much glee, might I add.

Would it be possible that he contorts his bombastic holier-than-thou attitude within the cookie-cutter confines of a team atmosphere? I would say, given his character, "no". He would not. But since when has that stopped Marvel in the past? ...because we all know how faithful Marvel is to character continuity. Rolling Eyes

But, let's say for argument's sake, it did happen. Bulleye found himself "slumming it" in a team. I would think he would have to be blackmailed or he would have some other alterior motive. It's true Bullseye is a tool... but, let's face it, he is far from the sharpest tool in the proverbial shed. He would not have the dicipline to formulate a drawn out game of personal espionage of that sort. Therefore, it would have to be blackmail, by default... perhaps a government-promised amnesty?

Regardless, I would not waste my time or money on such a lame story. Marvel can count me out on any "Thunderbolts" incarnation (past or present).


Villains more insane and more evil than Bullseye have joined teams before, like the Joker. Now members like that are totally untrustworthy and have to be watched carefully, but Bullseye is much less a "choatic evil" type than the Joker, serial killers are more random than assassins. That's why Bullseye is an assassin not a serial killer.

Bullseye is willing to work for others, so its not much of jump to believe that he could work with others, although certainly not in a very professional manner. Besides there can be circumstances that would force him into team, say Dr. Doom wishes to hire Bullseye as part of team of assassins that he needs for a mission, if he accepts he will earn a ton of money, if not he will earn Doom's wrath (I'm not giving Bullseye good odds against Doom), think Bullseye would go with option A, unless he has a death wish.

I think Bullseye's williness to work for others proves he could work in team, but his psychopathic nature would mean he would not be a very good team member. But the fact there are psychopaths who can work in teams to complete their goals, the others ateam mebers are tools, means to end, that's what Bullseye would approach a being on a team would be, I think.
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rgj
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2006 9:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote



"I don't care what you think!! I want those characaters on that team!! For every james castle out there we have 9 Master Megs! The Marvel Reader will eat it up like enchiladas! . . .mmm, enchiladas. So, yeah, get to work on, what did we call this crap again? . . . oh, yeah, Thunderbolts! I want this book finished in a timely manner, because those are the kind of standards I set! Now, where did I leave those enchiladas??"

rgj
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The Overlord
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2006 9:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

rgj wrote:


"I don't care what you think!! I want those characaters on that team!! For every james castle out there we have 9 Master Megs! The Marvel Reader will eat it up like enchiladas! . . .mmm, enchiladas. So, yeah, get to work on, what did we call this crap again? . . . oh, yeah, Thunderbolts! I want this book finished in a timely manner, because those are the kind of standards I set! Now, where did I leave those enchiladas??"

rgj


What has led you to think that I said it was a good idea to put all those characters on the same team. Personally I think its a bit silly, besides that just don't care and really don't have any intention of buying this book. If your a thunderbolts fan, you could argue that this move has ruined the thunderbolts, but this DD board, not a Thunderbolts board. I don't see how this bad for DD, this cloud may have asilver lining, now DD writers can't rely on Bullseye to fight DD all the time and can come up with some other ideas. Perhaps you shouldn't make assumptions about others without backing them up. Stop putting words in my mouth.


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rgj
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2006 9:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You may not buy the book. But you are buying the concept/premis of the story. That is where Joey Q. will feast. You just don't get the argument. That's what jc (and fox) has been trying to convey to you, with zero results.


rgj

p.s. My "a thunderbolts fan"?


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The Overlord
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2006 9:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

rgj wrote:
You may not buy the book. But you are buying the concept/premis of the story. That is where Joey Q. will feast. You just don't get the argument. That's what jc (and fox) has been trying to convey to you, with zero results.

rgj


Who said I bought the concept, where did I say this was good concept? Allowing psychos like Gobby and Bullseye may ruin the thunderbolts because its turned from team of redeemed villains into a team of psychos, but that's a thunderbolts problem. This a DD message board, not a Thunderbolts one and I see a silver lining for DD writers can no longer over rely on Bullseye and have to use other villains for a change. Exactly where did I say this was a good concept, in your imagination or can prove I said it on this board? Stop putting words my mouth, your just creating a straw man arguement, instead of engaging in a real discussion.

Besides I think your all overeacting, this seems like a gimmick to me, a few months all the villains (Bullseye, Gobby, Venom,etc) will likely be fighting their heroes again and a new thundertbolts team will be created instead. You all need to chill out.
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rgj
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2006 10:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Master Meg wrote:
Who said I bought the concept, where did I say this was good concept? Allowing psychos like Gobby and Bullseye may ruin the thunderbolts because its turned from team of redeemed villains into a team of psychos, but that's a thunderbolts problem. This a DD message board, not a Thunderbolts one and I see a silver lining for DD writers can no longer over rely on Bullseye and have to use other villains for a change. Exactly where did I say this was a good concept, in your imagination or can prove I said it on this board? Stop putting words my mouth, your just creating a straw man arguement, instead of engaging in a real discussion.


You bought the concept because you think that Bullseye would join such a group (and, seriously, I had never even heard of "the Thunderbolts" before). By the way, the "redeemed" villains should sue the government for using their trademarked name.

As for your most idiotic assumption? That DD writers won't use (and, thus, OVER-use) Bulls because he is a "member" of some half assed-let's milk Civil War-illogical team up book. Your silver lining is baseless. A writer will use or not use Bulls, irregardless of what other books he is in.

And, let's hope no one ever puts words in your mouth, or you just might start making sense.

rgj

And, yes, Master, obviously this new "Thunderbolts" team is just a flash in the pan. It's a friggin' mini-series to milk Civil War (another crappy concept). And, hey, we're all chillin', baby! It's a message board!
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Stanley
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Joined: 29 Jul 2004
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2006 12:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dearest Master Meglomaniac:

1) I'm setting the over-under age for you at 15.5. It was the "straw man" comment that did it. Nobody remembers that stuff except high school students. Everyone, bets can be placed at your nearest cashier.

2) I don't imagine you've ever been drunk, but you're acting like the guy who wants to try but shouldn't drive home--when three people have to stand up and tell you that you're incorrect (and not just three random people here, but the meat of the board), you probably should take it to heart. You don't know more than three people combined. Others may. But you don't.

3) Nothing says "you need to listen to the opinion that I obviously care about" by misspelling YOUR OWN MESSAGE BOARD NAME.

Nice.

For future reference, it's "Megalomaniac". And before you say the very lame "I don't care", you really should. Pay attention to the small stuff, and the big stuff takes care of itself.

4) You probably don't remember this because your skittish mind likes to jump from one mental lilypad to another with no regard to order or structure, but you tried to actually argue a while back that Daredevil was more of a loner than Batman or Wolverine. Thing is, you never responded to my post there. Will you respond to this one?

And will your response make any sort of sense at all?

Really, just quit now. Don't make me actually address your argument, or Daddy'll spank--just like I did last time.

5) And this is an edit that you'll prolly miss since I'm guessing you're writing your response right now--but you don't have to actually quote the entire body of the post you're responding to.
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The Overlord
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2006 12:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

rgj wrote:
Master Meg wrote:
Who said I bought the concept, where did I say this was good concept? Allowing psychos like Gobby and Bullseye may ruin the thunderbolts because its turned from team of redeemed villains into a team of psychos, but that's a thunderbolts problem. This a DD message board, not a Thunderbolts one and I see a silver lining for DD writers can no longer over rely on Bullseye and have to use other villains for a change. Exactly where did I say this was a good concept, in your imagination or can prove I said it on this board? Stop putting words my mouth, your just creating a straw man arguement, instead of engaging in a real discussion.


You bought the concept because you think that Bullseye would join such a group (and, seriously, I had never even heard of "the Thunderbolts" before). By the way, the "redeemed" villains should sue the government for using their trademarked name.

As for your most idiotic assumption? That DD writers won't use (and, thus, OVER-use) Bulls because he is a "member" of some half assed-let's milk Civil War-illogical team up book. Your silver lining is baseless. A writer will use or not use Bulls, irregardless of what other books he is in.


.


No I said its not out of the realm of possibilities that Bullseye would work for a team, being a hired assassin who is willing to work for others. But its clear that the he wouldn't be very good at being a team member and I doubt he could ever work in a team of heroes like the Thunderbolts. What's next are, you going boycott the upcomming Marvel: Ultiamte alliance game because Bullseye is a member of Dr. Doom's Masters of Evil team in the game? Are you telling me if somone rich and powerful paid Bullseye to be a team of assassins, he wouldn't do it?

Seriously Joker is more choatic evil than Bullseye and he has been on super villain teams before, you just can't trust him as far as you can throw him. However Bullseye joining a group of heroes like the Thunderbolts is a bit silly. So if I don't think its a good idea for Bullseye to join the Thuderbolts, how I am buying into this concept? I am buying into this concept in according to Bizzaro world standards? I could buy Bullseye being bribed or forced into a super villain group or go on a mission with a team of assassins, but joining the Thunderbolts does seem silly, the Thunderbolts is for redeemed villains and Bullseye is an irredeemable psycho. So no, I don't think the concept works, can I make that any clearer to you or you intentionally being thick?

Again how is this ruining Bullseye's character, instead of killing people for the Kingpin, he is killing people for Uncle Sam, I don't see the difference. Plus they likely blackmailed or used coercion on him to join team. I don't see how its out of character for Bullseye to kill people for Uncle Sam instead of for the Kingpin. You could say it ruins the concept of the Thunderbolts, but ruining Bullseye character? He has gone froma psycho assassin to a psycho assassin who works for the government, how different is that?


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The Overlord
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2006 12:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Stanley wrote:
Dearest Master Meglomaniac:

1)
Really, just quit now. Don't make me actually address your argument, or Daddy'll spank--just like I did last time.

5) And this is an edit that you'll prolly miss since I'm guessing you're writing your response right now--but you don't have to actually quote the entire body of the post you're responding to.


Go ahead and address it, I don't care. Your post had nothing to do with the arguement and was just made to address me in a insulting manner. I'm not going to address your little five point plan, it has nothing to do with the debate. Seriously your lot is the one freaking out about a development in a comic you likely have never heard and likely will never read. Your acting like angry fanboys, just calm down.
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Stanley
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2006 1:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

MasMeg, this is why nobody agrees with you. You don't stop and address someone on a personal level; instead, you lump me into everyone else and say that ~I'm~ acting a certain way.

I have no vested interest one way or another about Bullseye doing whatever. In the annals of people who say "I don't care" on a message board, this may be one of the few times you see it and the person means it.

I ~do~ care about your muddying up the conversation with ridiculous "points". See, in your mind, you still think it's about the comic. No no. It's about you. I understand that in your fragile "teen angst" state, that may make you post on myspace before or after you finish your english class's fallacy unit, but really--it's quite possible that nobody appreciates the way you argue. Or talk. Or in my case, I don't appreciate knowing you exist. So while you continue to say the same things over and over again, or call people "fanboys" (like I've never been called worse things), or completely miss the point of someone's argument, everyone else is just sort of waiting for you to "get it". Some wait for you to acknowledge their point. I wait for you to get out of the way.

And my five points weren't a "plan". "Plan" implies an order other than one derived for clarity's sake. The numbers in this case were for clarity's sake. If I have to explain to you what a plan is, what hope do you have?

It's cute that you quoted my edit. I don't know if you were trying to just prove you could; if so, it would've been cool to also prove you could break up the text using the quote function instead of haphazardly delete it.

I believe the last time I addressed your argument, you didn't respond. Of course, I'm talking about the "OMG Daredevil's a loner" argument. When I can't expect you to respond to my answering your shoddy arguments, I'm going to go after the speaker. Especially when the speaker doesn't have any reason or basis for his arguments in the first place. By the way, why did you explain me-attacking-you-instead-of-the-argument? Why didn't you just name the fallacy? I know you know it. At least, you should.

Looking at the content of your 500 someodd posts, I'm really not impressed. My 200 have, besides the NFL pick 'em, been earned by consistently putting people more talented than you and more stubborn than you in their places.

It's funny that people never seem to agree with you on any topics people actually have to think about. Why is that, do you think?
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rgj
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2006 6:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Master Meg wrote:
No I said its not out of the realm of possibilities that Bullseye would work for a team, being a hired assassin who is willing to work for others.


But, the goverment hired Bulls to "register", not kill. Yeah, I can see Bulls going out there with the registration forms.

Quote:
Again how is this ruining Bullseye's character


Now who's putting words in who's mouth. Hypocrite.

Give it up MM. You're done.

rgj
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