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| Do you want Karen to return (e.g. never have been killed)? |
| Yes, but only if there is a very tight story behind it. |
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20% |
[ 6 ] |
| Yes, and I don't care how! :P |
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6% |
[ 2 ] |
| No, because there is no need to bring her back. |
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53% |
[ 16 ] |
| No, only because it could not be pulled off well. |
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20% |
[ 6 ] |
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| Total Votes : 30 |
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rgj
Hardcore
Joined: 29 Jul 2004
Posts: 1580
Location: The Rio Grande Valley of Texas
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 Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2006 2:49 pm Post subject: |
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As I said before, Ben HAD a choice. And, really, all he had to do was stall for a couple of hours. It's ridiculous and uncharacteristic of Ben to sing so fast as he did. Not much of a reporter if he can't conceal his source.
rgj |
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Francesco
Underboss
Joined: 08 Jun 2006
Posts: 1307
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| Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2006 4:51 pm Post subject: |
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Well, that's also true. But add to this the emotional stress of being put all of a sudden in an aut-aut situation by a clearly obsessed FBI director (that guy openly threatened him). Urich is an ordinary man who always struggles to do what he can. He's not a superhero (and, personally, I don't require the writer to write him as one).
What can I say, in my opinion, considering his a betrayal/act of cowardice is a bit injust. |
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Clayton Blind Love
Redemption
Joined: 30 Jul 2004
Posts: 772
Location: Beautiful British Columbia
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| Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2006 8:35 pm Post subject: |
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| rgj wrote: | | basically he had no "reason" to give up Murdock and truth be told, the FBI had no legitamite reason to hold him for over a year. A lawyer would have freed him easily. |
As great as the Kingpin is as a manipulator, there was something he couldn't do. He couldn't simply get out of jail. Murdock was his free ticket and this acted as his last card to get out (mind you, he never got out anyways). The FBI director was never going to let Wilson out of jail. The FBI director was never going to let Wilson have his chance in a courtroom. He kept Wilson in jail for a year without trial and Wilson knew that no lawyer was going to get him out. Simply put, Wilson was never going to have a right to see a lawyer to begin with.
As I stated earlier, I couldn't help but feel that Bendis was portraying this FBI director so crooked by using post 9/11 anti-terrorist laws and applying them to other types of criminals. Can the FBI lock up someone without a right to a trial for up to a year or more? Probably not. But I believe this happens now even if it is illegal. Anti-terrorism laws are an abuse waiting to happen. However, this is a comicbook afterall. I'm sure a real lawyer would laugh at the bubblegum in this book for actual legal concerns.
C.
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Love is blindness, I don't want to see
Won't you wrap the night around me |
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Clayton Blind Love
Redemption
Joined: 30 Jul 2004
Posts: 772
Location: Beautiful British Columbia
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| Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2006 10:03 pm Post subject: |
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Maher Arar
Maybe google this name and read a nightmare. He currently lives in my city.
A Canadian wrongfully detained by US authorites in New York City and sent to Syria, where he underwent a year of torture.
He was recently awarded with the Letelier-Moffitt Human Rights Award for his incredible act of bravery being wrongfully accused and denied basic human rights.
This is the reality of post 9/11. From this, it is not to hard to imagine a comicbook universe where an FBI director detains Wilson Fisk indefinetly without any rights. Add this to a fictional population who know all about Wilson Fisk and could probably care less if a government agency held Wilson Fisk without rights.
C.
_________________
Love is blindness, I don't want to see
Won't you wrap the night around me |
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rgj
Hardcore
Joined: 29 Jul 2004
Posts: 1580
Location: The Rio Grande Valley of Texas
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| Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2006 10:38 pm Post subject: |
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| CBL wrote: | | Can the FBI lock up someone without a right to a trial for up to a year or more? Probably not. |
Exactly. And, Fisk is a public figure. No way the FBI can keep him that long. And, again, why was he arrested. Fisk was a man about town, despite his legal troubles, before he was almost killed. The FBI had nothing on him to arrest him. Then DD beats him up and throws him though a window of a seedy bar. So the FBI arrests him?? But, look, we're getting off track again. There are plenty of logical holes in Murdock Papers. Again, Ben had a choice (heck, he could have even stalled for a couple of hours as I said). Ben is a reporter. Wouldn't the FBI have to get a judge to get a reporter to give up his source?? Surly, Ben knew he had plenty of time. Ben sang because Bendis needed the arc to end. Simple. But, Ben had a choice.
rgj |
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Clayton Blind Love
Redemption
Joined: 30 Jul 2004
Posts: 772
Location: Beautiful British Columbia
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| Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2006 10:53 pm Post subject: |
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Ben had a choice yes, but in Ben's mind he didn't. 
C.
_________________
Love is blindness, I don't want to see
Won't you wrap the night around me |
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rgj
Hardcore
Joined: 29 Jul 2004
Posts: 1580
Location: The Rio Grande Valley of Texas
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| Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2006 11:03 pm Post subject: |
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"Let's wrap thing up-Bendis's" mind.
rgj
Last edited by rgj on Fri Oct 20, 2006 11:30 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Clayton Blind Love
Redemption
Joined: 30 Jul 2004
Posts: 772
Location: Beautiful British Columbia
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| Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2006 11:18 pm Post subject: |
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"Why can't I get the last word in? If I say 'hoochie mama', will he still respond anyways?" -my mind. 
_________________
Love is blindness, I don't want to see
Won't you wrap the night around me |
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rgj
Hardcore
Joined: 29 Jul 2004
Posts: 1580
Location: The Rio Grande Valley of Texas
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| Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2006 11:29 pm Post subject: |
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I'm sorry. By all means, Clayton, the last word is yours . . . oops, I did it again.
rgj |
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Clayton Blind Love
Redemption
Joined: 30 Jul 2004
Posts: 772
Location: Beautiful British Columbia
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| Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2006 11:40 pm Post subject: |
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Hoochie Mama!
By the way rgj, I think you are in cahoots with some NFLers throwing games for you. How else can you explain such a great record? The FBI maybe?
C.
_________________
Love is blindness, I don't want to see
Won't you wrap the night around me |
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rgj
Hardcore
Joined: 29 Jul 2004
Posts: 1580
Location: The Rio Grande Valley of Texas
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| Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2006 11:54 pm Post subject: |
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| CBL wrote: | | How else can you explain such a great record? The FBI maybe? |
Like a great reporter (ie. Ben Urich) I would never give up that source! Oops. 
rgj |
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The Privateer
Redemption
Joined: 24 Jan 2005
Posts: 740
Location: South Derbyshire, England
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| Posted: Sat Oct 21, 2006 1:35 am Post subject: |
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| rgj wrote: | | CBL wrote: | | How else can you explain such a great record? The FBI maybe? |
Like a great reporter (ie. Ben Urich) I would never give up that source! Oops.
rgj |
I wonder if rgj's picking record is part of Marvel's discarded 2007 big summer event, House of NFL, rgj is in cahoots with Scarlet Witch, altering the outcome of games.
_________________
Always Out-Manned, Never Out-Gunned |
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Francesco
Underboss
Joined: 08 Jun 2006
Posts: 1307
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| Posted: Sat Oct 21, 2006 7:09 am Post subject: |
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| rgj wrote: | "Let's wrap thing up-Bendis's" mind.
rgj |
I disagree. If Bendis had Ben opposing the FBI director, as if it was nothing, I would've been even more disappointed.
Because that would've been the classic, kiddie cartoon scenario, where if you are a good guy, you act heroically even when in reality you couldn't. |
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rgj
Hardcore
Joined: 29 Jul 2004
Posts: 1580
Location: The Rio Grande Valley of Texas
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| Posted: Sat Oct 21, 2006 3:13 pm Post subject: |
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If you think Ben saying "I don't know where she (the NN) is located," is some kind of over the top heroic posturing, I disagree with that. I'm not saying Ben has to open his coat and shirt and reveal a letter "B" on his chest in the face of the FBI. I'm just saying he should act like a reporter (like the reporter he is). And, seriously, where's the article about the FBI hiring assassins?
rgj |
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Francesco
Underboss
Joined: 08 Jun 2006
Posts: 1307
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| Posted: Sat Oct 21, 2006 5:22 pm Post subject: |
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Immediately after he'd said that, Davis would've replied something like "Fine, from now on consider your children in special protection program", with a crazed/pissed off facial expression, followed by an "Unless you decide to play smart and tell us where the NN is. And you better give the precise information otherwise I'll ruin your life (and your wife and childrens') by any means".
Deciding to oppose Davis, given the circumstances and the veiled threats, would've been indeed an heroic act he (as an ordinary man) couldn't afford.
Ben as I said, is not stupid, and as soon as Davis said "I fear you're going to jail" realized that there was no escape. |
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