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The Owl in the upcoming Netflix series

 
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Ash-n-Bone
Tree of Knowledge


Joined: 08 Apr 2009
Posts: 223
Location: UK

PostPosted: Sun Jan 04, 2015 3:00 pm    Post subject: The Owl in the upcoming Netflix series Reply with quote

Hey guys, hope you're enjoying the first few days of 2015.

Anyway, I just wanted to know what you guys think about The Owl being in the Netflix series.

How do you think he'll be portrayed? Will he even be referred to as The Owl?

Let's discuss...
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beneverett
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Joined: 22 Nov 2012
Posts: 17

PostPosted: Sun Jan 04, 2015 6:14 pm    Post subject: The Owl in the upcoming Netflix series Reply with quote

I haven't been following the development of the Netflix series as closely as other DD fans probably have, but the creators are touting it more as a gritty crime drama than superhero show. We'll really have to wait for the series to run to see what all that means, but I'm assuming that The Owl is going to be the big crime lord in NY who is eventually superseded by the Kingpin. How this will happen or if he will continue to remain a figure in the series is anyone's guess at this point. The creators have also implied that the show will be about Fisk's story as much as DD's. Considering their proposed "down-to-earth" approach, and Mr. Gunton's age, I don't know if we'll see him flying around or getting too physical. But obviously, Matt is going to have his powers, so I'm not going to dismiss it entirely. In fact, it could be kind of interesting. For some reason I have this image of Albert Finney's character from Miller's Crossing. There's a scene in that picture where a bunch of thugs storm his house and try to kill him in the middle of the night. They think it will be easy -he's old, out of shape, and will probably be in bed- but he ends up single handedly taking them all out. If I remember correctly, he even manages to escape from a burning house while doing so. Maybe they'll treat The Owl in a similar way, more of a schemer or behind-the-scenes character who can be physical when he needs to. Perhaps he might start out powerless and later obtain superpowers in an attempt to maintain/regain his empire from the Kingpin. Will he be called 'The Owl' in the show? I don't see why not.
The "Owl as original kingpin route" would give him a bit more character motivation and has a little basis (I think) in DD lore. Of course, The Owl appeared before the Kingpin did in the comics, and it makes sense that (in universe) he could have had a position of power in the criminal underworld before Fisk made his way to the top. In fact, his goal way back in DD#3 was to establish himself as "King of the Underworld". Perhaps his initial defeat by Daredevil and subsequent incarceration is what prevented him from cementing his hold and gave Fisk one less obstacle to face. Owlsley did have an "in" to organized crime after doing some money laundering and embezzling for various underworld figures apart from whatever other crooked things he was involved in; he could have made numerous connections and used his business instincts to set himself up before he was busted by the IRS. During "Daredevil:Yellow", Jeph Loeb had Matt confront his father's killer Slade before his execution and attempt to get him to name the man The Fixer was working for. Slade refuses out of fear for his loved ones, shortly afterwards, we meet this mysterious man everyone seems to be afraid of who refers to himself only as The Owl. I may be reading too much into this, but I believe Loeb was implying that Owlsley was The Fixer's employer and thus a major player not just in DD's history but in pre-Fisk organized crime in NY. Of course, BMB answered the Fixer question a bit later with Alexander Bont during his "Golden Age" story. I must say, I was a little disappointed by this. I really liked Loeb's setup, but then The Owl has always been my favorite DD villain, so I'm biased and could understand why other fans might not warm up to it.
I was really happy when I heard he was going to be appearing, and I hope they do well by him. That is, I hope he isn't treated as a joke (which sometimes happens in the books, although I like what Waid has done with him so far) or needlessly killed off. I've always thought that he never caught on the way some other DD villains did because his characterization and motives haven't been terribly well defined in all the many years he's been around. Maybe this series can flesh him out a bit more, and inspire future creators on the book. That being said, I would hate to have the book really change in any way because of the Netflix series (and I'm not intending that comment to provoke some useless Waid/light vs. dark book tone debate). Marvel can say what they like, but I'm convinced that this whole "Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch aren't Magneto's kids" revelation from "Axis" is just a way to get them into the movies without the whole mutant/X-Men/Sony thing to worry about.
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The Overlord
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Joined: 22 Aug 2004
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 05, 2015 4:41 pm    Post subject: Re: The Owl in the upcoming Netflix series Reply with quote

beneverett wrote:
I haven't been following the development of the Netflix series as closely as other DD fans probably have, but the creators are touting it more as a gritty crime drama than superhero show. We'll really have to wait for the series to run to see what all that means, but I'm assuming that The Owl is going to be the big crime lord in NY who is eventually superseded by the Kingpin. How this will happen or if he will continue to remain a figure in the series is anyone's guess at this point. The creators have also implied that the show will be about Fisk's story as much as DD's. Considering their proposed "down-to-earth" approach, and Mr. Gunton's age, I don't know if we'll see him flying around or getting too physical. But obviously, Matt is going to have his powers, so I'm not going to dismiss it entirely. In fact, it could be kind of interesting. For some reason I have this image of Albert Finney's character from Miller's Crossing. There's a scene in that picture where a bunch of thugs storm his house and try to kill him in the middle of the night. They think it will be easy -he's old, out of shape, and will probably be in bed- but he ends up single handedly taking them all out. If I remember correctly, he even manages to escape from a burning house while doing so. Maybe they'll treat The Owl in a similar way, more of a schemer or behind-the-scenes character who can be physical when he needs to. Perhaps he might start out powerless and later obtain superpowers in an attempt to maintain/regain his empire from the Kingpin. Will he be called 'The Owl' in the show? I don't see why not.
The "Owl as original kingpin route" would give him a bit more character motivation and has a little basis (I think) in DD lore. Of course, The Owl appeared before the Kingpin did in the comics, and it makes sense that (in universe) he could have had a position of power in the criminal underworld before Fisk made his way to the top. In fact, his goal way back in DD#3 was to establish himself as "King of the Underworld". Perhaps his initial defeat by Daredevil and subsequent incarceration is what prevented him from cementing his hold and gave Fisk one less obstacle to face. Owlsley did have an "in" to organized crime after doing some money laundering and embezzling for various underworld figures apart from whatever other crooked things he was involved in; he could have made numerous connections and used his business instincts to set himself up before he was busted by the IRS. During "Daredevil:Yellow", Jeph Loeb had Matt confront his father's killer Slade before his execution and attempt to get him to name the man The Fixer was working for. Slade refuses out of fear for his loved ones, shortly afterwards, we meet this mysterious man everyone seems to be afraid of who refers to himself only as The Owl. I may be reading too much into this, but I believe Loeb was implying that Owlsley was The Fixer's employer and thus a major player not just in DD's history but in pre-Fisk organized crime in NY. Of course, BMB answered the Fixer question a bit later with Alexander Bont during his "Golden Age" story. I must say, I was a little disappointed by this. I really liked Loeb's setup, but then The Owl has always been my favorite DD villain, so I'm biased and could understand why other fans might not warm up to it.
I was really happy when I heard he was going to be appearing, and I hope they do well by him. That is, I hope he isn't treated as a joke (which sometimes happens in the books, although I like what Waid has done with him so far) or needlessly killed off. I've always thought that he never caught on the way some other DD villains did because his characterization and motives haven't been terribly well defined in all the many years he's been around. Maybe this series can flesh him out a bit more, and inspire future creators on the book. That being said, I would hate to have the book really change in any way because of the Netflix series (and I'm not intending that comment to provoke some useless Waid/light vs. dark book tone debate). Marvel can say what they like, but I'm convinced that this whole "Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch aren't Magneto's kids" revelation from "Axis" is just a way to get them into the movies without the whole mutant/X-Men/Sony thing to worry about.


A lot of that is pretty spot on, though I would assume that there are other reasons for using Owl over certain fan favorites like Bullseye.

Kingpin is being written as a sympathetic villain for the first season, so they could write Owl as a total psychopath so Kingpin seems sympathetic in comparison. Owl has been written as an animal like psychopath for the past 20 years, so this really is not a stretch for him, he seems to spend a lot of time eating rats and attacking his own men for no good reason. Owl doesn't have be physical to be dangerous, just really ruthless and willing to use his influence to get his way, no matter what and is far more willing to engage in wanton blood shed. He could be the Gyp Rosetti or Marlo Stanfield or Tuco Salamanca of the show. I guess the big question is, is there a need for 2 sympathetic crime bosses in this show or should one be an evil psychopath?

If you really want to make Owl unsympathetic, you can give him the child kidnapping plot from Man Without Fear, I don't think you have Fisk engage in such a scheme and still be sympathetic.

I also think Kingpin might kill Owl by the end season, but that may a death that is necessary to the plot, is there any need for a pre Kingpin, once Kingpin takes the top spot? Other shows are not afraid to kill off important villains or main cast members, so he may killed off to advance the plot, would that be needless?
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beneverett
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Joined: 22 Nov 2012
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 05, 2015 7:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If he were killed off in service of the story, that wouldn't really be a problem. When I used the "needlessly killed off" expression, I was referring to something done more for shock value than anything else. Even though I am a fan of the character, I do agree with you that it was a bit peculiar to use him over a character like Bullseye in the first season. I do not know how long this series is intended to run, but it makes sense that there could be a rival for the Kingpin and the Owl could fit that role. But it is understandable if they want introduce new characters and different conflicts too.
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Mike Murdock
Golden Age


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 05, 2015 8:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bullseye clearly would serve a very different role. The role the Owl has suggests it's someone like Eric Slaughter from Miller's early run or Don Rigoletto from the Man without Fear series. In other words, a predecessor mobster that Fisk takes down in his rise to power.

I think, given this, and his age, the Owl is unlikely to have any of his genetically engineered powers. Take that for what it is one way or the other.
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The Overlord
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Joined: 22 Aug 2004
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 06, 2015 7:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mike Murdock wrote:
Bullseye clearly would serve a very different role. The role the Owl has suggests it's someone like Eric Slaughter from Miller's early run or Don Rigoletto from the Man without Fear series. In other words, a predecessor mobster that Fisk takes down in his rise to power.

I think, given this, and his age, the Owl is unlikely to have any of his genetically engineered powers. Take that for what it is one way or the other.


Well I would also hope that they contrast Kingpin's and Owl's personalities.

A lot of people like Eric Slaughter for appearing in the Miller stories, but he never really had much of a personality. Don Rigoletto was a nice one scene wonder, with Miller presenting him as a gangster with morals compared to the more evil then usual Kingpin in Man Without Fear, but he was a one scene wonder in the end.

Owl has actually been far more prominent then either of them. I also think Owl has gotten some character development over the years, for the first 30 years or so, Owl was a generic and somewhat silly super villain/crime boss (he seemed way too into the Owl motif in the Silver Age, Miller never used him and Nocenti treated him as some fun throw back to a much simpler time). All that changed in the early 90s, when the serum Owl used to fly again to take a toll on his body and mind. Owl's body have recovered, but his mind did not. Nowadays Owl is written as a violent psychopath who barely control his temper, Bendis had him violently kill one of his men for failing him, in "Superior Foes" Owl fed one of his men to starving rats. Even Waid has Owl offing a guy in a creepy animal like way.

I would say Owl as become the anti Kingpin, while Kingpin is cool, calm and in control, always planning ahead, Owl is impulsive, rage filled, violent and somewhat short term in thinking. Owl is still smart, but often lacks self control.

Perhaps the TV show will make Owl the pre Kingpin like Slaughter or Don Rigoletto, but keep in the violent personality. Perhaps Owl in his old age has stopped caring about subtlety and has become reckless.

That is the best to contrast these characters and still have Kingpin seem sympathetic.
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Mike Murdock
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 06, 2015 9:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Don Rigoletto was just Vito Corleone before he got shot Wink

I hope the Owl is more erratic, that would be fitting with his personality.
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The Overlord
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2015 7:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mike Murdock wrote:
Don Rigoletto was just Vito Corleone before he got shot Wink


Fair enough.

Mike Murdock wrote:

I hope the Owl is more erratic, that would be fitting with his personality.


Yeah, I feel nowadays Owl is a character similar to Gyp Rosetti or Tuco Salamanca.

I also think they could give Netflix Owl a suit similar to what he wears in the comics, green suit, white shirt, red tie and maybe an overcoat to go with it. It would be somewhat eccentric, him looking somewhat foppish, before he goes nuts and murders someone. They don't need to give him the Wolverine hair cut, Bob Gunton would look really silly with it.

I think the first season will take plot points from Frank Miller's Gang War story (with Owl replacing Kingpin's old lieutenants) and have Owl kidnap Vanessa, which will really set off the Kingpin.
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humanaccident
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2015 12:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think we will see Kingpin use DD to beat the Owl, so we see DD as the hero before we find out the Kingpin was using him to gain the upper hand.
Kingpin defeating the crazy and violent Owl would have him as the hero of the show, and would have us wondering if DD was really the star. Hopefully DD is not lost in this Kingpin heavy (no pun intended) storyline.
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