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Daredevil's Love life
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Who's Matt Murdock's true Love, now that Karen's dead and he's anulled from Milla?
Black Widow
27%
 27%  [ 5 ]
Milla Donovan
22%
 22%  [ 4 ]
Echo
5%
 5%  [ 1 ]
Elektra
22%
 22%  [ 4 ]
Other via Post
22%
 22%  [ 4 ]
Total Votes : 18

Author Message
james castle
Devil in Cell-Block D


Joined: 30 Jul 2004
Posts: 1999
Location: Toronto, Ontario

PostPosted: Thu Feb 10, 2005 11:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You're crazy man. To wit:

rgj wrote:
Regarding: The statment that Matt is not in love with Milla but Bendis! is.

Yeah, I know Bendis! makes it clear that Matt "loves" Milla. But, what I'm saying is that the next writer will come along with his creation and Matt will "love" her next.


True, true. Hopefully whoever comes next, however, has the wherewithall to create someone that a little less craptacular than Echo. Boo Echo.


Quote:

Now, I honestly don't care if Kate ever shows up again. But, I don't think there is anything cliche (in regards to DAREDEVIL) about her. Matt has countless times teamed up with his athletic "equal": Elektra, Black Widow. But, he's never gone out with his professional "equal." This was actually rather refreshing to see. Perhaps Kate is only "cliche" to james castle because he knows female lawyers like her (who knows?). As for james' pointing out Kate's underware (just about everytime she is talked about), well, I don't know what comic james is reading (or perhaps he hasn't picked up the trade paperbacks yet) but I think we've all (even Foggy!) got an eye (candy) full of Milla in her, oh so sweet, undies. Please. Not liking Kate for her undie scene is crazy (blame the artist if you want). As for Kate's lack of "subtle shadings," by God man, the character appeared for what?, 4-5 issues. She didn't get the character development Milla was given.


There seems to be a weird little thought going through out this thread to the effect that the idea of "cliche" is tied to a specific context (i.e. Daredevil). When I think of cliche, I think of it more universally. So, yeah, there's nothing cliche about Kate specifically with regard to DD. However, she was cliche in a more general way. She was this ridiculous "independant" woman, professional, blah. It was just so ridiculous.

As for character development: I loved the hell out of Milla in the first three panels she was in. She just oozed character. Kate had more than enough time to become something more than the 2D boring cliche that she was. Bob Gale, however, just wasn't up to the task.

Quote:

One of the things that really got me sick of Milla was Bendis! constantly putting her in peril, like when 1) Typhoid attacked 2) Bulls attacked. It just kind of got redundant. I'm not even going into the conrtrived way they met (Bendis thinks: Matt needs a girlfriend)--you know, the whole, DD saves Milla, Milla feels face (with mask!), Milla goes to outed Matt's office (and, c'mon we all saw coming a mile away: Matt giving himself away via the clothing store comment).


Two things. First: of course Milla constantly faces danger. She's dating a superhero for heaven's sake.

Second: there was nothing contrived about the way they met. Contrived means unbelievable in some way. DD saves women all the time. He was also outed around the same time. Him saving someone and then them following up made all the sense in the world. It was natural, not contrived.

Quote:

Anyway. Compromise. Kate and Milla hit the road. Let's start fresh.
rgj


I agree only because I believe Milla is doomed after Bendis goes. Sigh.
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Gee
Playing to the Camera


Joined: 09 Feb 2005
Posts: 119
Location: Scotland

PostPosted: Thu Feb 10, 2005 1:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

good points one and all, i do however think that both echo and milla will be gone once matt sorts his head out. both have been more symptoms of his breakdown than real love. i thought milla was lacking....something, something that matt and black widow have, something that elektra and matt had. from another point of view i think milla will be gone as bendis leaves and the stories go back to a daredevil focus as opposed to a matt murdock focus.
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Darediva
Wake Up


Joined: 29 Jul 2004
Posts: 1208
Location: Hell's Kitchen South, Arkansas, USA

PostPosted: Thu Feb 10, 2005 1:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TheManWithoutFear wrote:
This chickl knows he's Daredevil?


No, she has no idea she is talking to Matt Murdock. She has just called a cellphone number where DD told her she could reach him. Little does she know....
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james castle
Devil in Cell-Block D


Joined: 30 Jul 2004
Posts: 1999
Location: Toronto, Ontario

PostPosted: Thu Feb 10, 2005 2:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gee wrote:
good points one and all, i do however think that both echo and milla will be gone once matt sorts his head out. both have been more symptoms of his breakdown than real love.


Where does this come from? This "Milla was just part of the breakdown" thing? Again, according to the comics it's as clear as can be that Matt really is in love with Milla. A few characters say "maybe it's just part of the breakdown" but the final pages of The Widow clear all that up and Bendis virtually screams "Matt really loves Milla". How are people missing that?
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rgj
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Joined: 29 Jul 2004
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 10, 2005 5:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not to beat this thing to death, but contrived really doesn't have anything to do with intimating at an "unbelievable" occurance. It just basically means something that was manufactured, manipulated and basically forced. But, to each his own, you, Matt and Bendis! love Milla. Again, as for Kate, blame Gale if you want (his overall story did suck, so by extrapolation so should Kate) but I think Bendis! could have made this "independent" woman compelling. Just as he did the "independent" and blind(!) Milla. As for the Milla in constant danger thing. All I'm saying is that it kind of got repetative. Either Milla was in immediate danger or their dates ended with a potential for danger (ie. the cops at Matts house, the Yakuza about to attack). The stories overall were good, but that hook kind of got old.

rgj
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Goddess0Whim
Fall From Grace


Joined: 10 Nov 2004
Posts: 410
Location: Central, NYS

PostPosted: Thu Feb 10, 2005 6:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

THE MERRIAM WEBSTER DICTIONARY STATES:

contrive, verb: contrived; contriving 1) PLAN; DEVISE 2) FRAME; MAKE 3) to bring about with difficulty

contrived; adjective: lacking in natural or spontaneous quality


and with that being said:
i don't that anything about the way the Milla character was contrived. she did not lack spontinaity in comparison to Matt's past love interest's and she did not act in anyway that would have been predictable given the circumstances, atleast that's what i think.
she held out under alot of stress when by definition she should be considered helpless. that is certainly not the norm so it must not be contrived.
as for the way she reacted and being in peril all the time. heck! she started dating Matt when he dug a hole for himself in all fairness. and all past girls in similar situations either bailed, helped him fight, or were indifferent to a certain extent. she gave him support in a different way than all the rest, sort of a silent persistance. certainly not framed into any of their typical behavior patterns.
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james castle
Devil in Cell-Block D


Joined: 30 Jul 2004
Posts: 1999
Location: Toronto, Ontario

PostPosted: Thu Feb 10, 2005 7:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

See, this is why I love Milla and hate Kate. Kate is "independant" in all the ridiculous cliche ways. She virtually screams "I'm independant". Milla is independant in a cool, realistic and subtle way. Why must Milla disappear and/or be doomed to be badly written in the future? Why? It's so unfair.
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EightiesCartoon
Playing to the Camera


Joined: 18 Oct 2004
Posts: 177
Location: Bathurst

PostPosted: Thu Feb 10, 2005 7:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just to skew the topic a little, if Matt was out there in the real world would the women on this board date him? (Knowing his alter ego and so forth?)
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james castle
Devil in Cell-Block D


Joined: 30 Jul 2004
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Location: Toronto, Ontario

PostPosted: Thu Feb 10, 2005 7:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Women? Heck, I'd date Matt if he were real. He's so cool.
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EightiesCartoon
Playing to the Camera


Joined: 18 Oct 2004
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 10, 2005 7:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah he's the package isn't he Exclamation
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train
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Joined: 29 Jul 2004
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 10, 2005 8:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

james castle wrote:
Heck, I'd date Matt if he were real. He's so cool.


I think that you'd have to fight Darediva for Matt's hand. Catfight anyone?
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TheManWithoutFear
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Joined: 21 Jan 2005
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 10, 2005 8:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yo, read Playing to the Camera. Enjoyed it. Wasn't the best DD ever. I do want to change my vote and throw Kate in there I thought she was cool and would actually like to see her again.
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Darediva
Wake Up


Joined: 29 Jul 2004
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 10, 2005 8:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

train wrote:
james castle wrote:
Heck, I'd date Matt if he were real. He's so cool.


I think that you'd have to fight Darediva for Matt's hand. Catfight anyone?


Is the Pope Catholic?

Yeeeeeeeeooooooooooooooooowwwwwwwwwww!
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ozddzealot
Playing to the Camera


Joined: 17 Sep 2004
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Location: Timor Leste

PostPosted: Thu Feb 10, 2005 9:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think you've all undersold elektra, she is matt's true love first true love is the sweetest and most bitter, he loved karen, but karen was right when she said there was an element of responsibility in his love for her.

in issue #37 he made it obvious that he was not over elektra, and remember elektra went to jail to protect karen for matt if thats not selfless love returned what is?

the recent wolverine issue made it obvious that elektra was not over matt as well the fact that she let matt hanging on the roof was just a sign of her not indulging his hissy fit

Mila was a fantastic character and i think i was the first on the board to sing her praises and tip that she wasn't a flash in the pan when others were writing her off as cannon fodder/bedhead notch. bendis writes girls so much better than most comic book writers.

But Mila's not got her hooks into matt the way elektra does, matt is there for elektra as is. mila needs him to change too much, so they were never a forever thing.

I'm busted at work so i'll finish this off later
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Stephan
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 10, 2005 9:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As I noted, Kate was an adroit professional and enjoyed some chemistry with Matt. These two were never afforded an opportunity to explore their feelings for one another. One wonders what her reaction was to the secret identity revelation (though she likely deduced it shortly after the cell phone episode in court). Matt has never had a romantic relationship with another attorney before. Indeed, aside from Frankiln and Blake Tower, Matt has not interacted with the legal community at all! Kate is one of many supporting characters (Willie Lincoln is another) whose return would be welcome.
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