Daredevil Message Board

rgj · Posted: Wed Nov 15, 2006 6:23 pm Post subject:

Yeah, but what the hell does that mean? Did Miller even know? Look, Chichester and you think she was possessed and that comment meant she was exorcised. But, that's not definitive. Miller and Jansen went nuts with the mist thing (you know, when the Hand guys die a mist would pour out of them), if Miller was saying she was possessed why didn't they show some type of mist leaving her when Matt did his thing? Stick said something about life and death being energy that you moved back and fourth. The comment about being clean coud be about that. But, whatever. The fact remains that today's Elektra sucks. And, I could care less about reading a mini-series with her in it.

rgj

Ratchet · Flying Blind Joined: 20 Jul 2005 Posts: 22

Here's what happened to Elektra at her resurrection: The Hand wanted to resurrect her, and at the same time, make her a dark servant totally in their thrall. The process was interrupted. Then Matt continued the resurrection--and inadvertently cleansed Elektra of the Hand's influence.

Matt didn't wash away any evil that might have existed prior to the Hand's ceremony. You can't erase the past, and that's one of the themes in the graphic novel Elektra Lives Again.

Yeah, people keep saying Elektra is still running around out there. Too bad it's not her.

rgj · Posted: Wed Nov 15, 2006 8:10 pm Post subject:

Holy crap! Ratchet is absolutely 100% right! I broke out the Visionaries, truth be told I haven't read TES for quite some time. In fact, I think I read FFG more recently than TES, go figure. But, anyway, Ratchet is right, the Hand had started the ritual. And, they were "pouring their souls, flesh and blood" into her. They were going to revive her and make her their servent, WITHOUT CHOICE. And, that is what Matt cleansed. The poison they were pouring into her empty vessel. The purging had nothing to do with Elektra's past, and willing transgressions. When Stone saw she was clean he gave up his life essence to revive her. That is what Miller wrote. I look forward to rereading this whole thing again when the Miller Omnibus comes out!

rgj

p.s. Today's "Elektra" sucks eggs.

Francesco · Underboss Joined: 08 Jun 2006 Posts: 1307

Right, right, but please, someone tell him that he's cool when he uses the expression "xxxx sucks eggs" otherwise he won't stop.

james castle · Posted: Fri Nov 17, 2006 1:58 pm Post subject:

Dimetre · Posted: Fri Nov 17, 2006 5:16 pm Post subject: Elektra

I actually enjoyed Rucka's work in the Elektra series, when she wasn't getting any assignments, and the relatives of her victims forced her to reevaluate her ways. Unfortunately whoever was editing the book allowed Rucka's direction to be completely abandoned when Rodi took over, and she reverted back to simply being a cold-blooded assassin.

In my humble opinion, Miller's Elektra Saga is an undeniable high-point in comics history. I love going back and rereading it over and over again. In contrast, Fall From Grace sits in a box deep in my closet. I read it once, and don't care to read it again.

james castle · Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2006 3:03 pm Post subject: Re: Elektra

rgj · Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2006 4:05 pm Post subject:

Oh, james, are you hating on the ninjas (well, okay, you say you like them like the next guy)!?

Seriously, the Hand are some of the coolest DD villains of all time. Gee, if you think they were "cheese," just what the heck are just about the rest of DD's villains? Or any villain in a costume? Like the mob, the ninjas brought a gritty enemy to DD. Heck, look at Chichester's use of the Hand (and Hydra too), totally cool stuff.

Agian, I'm not saying TES was the end all, but TES was a great story, IMO. And, it put DD back on the monthly map.

rgj

james castle · Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2006 8:21 pm Post subject:

Don't get me wrong, I like the Hand (as much as the next guy). And, yeah, Chichester really did some cool stuff with them. Heck, Miller did some really cool stuff with them. But, put in context (i.e. the 80s) you sort of have to wonder whether or not stuffing ninjas into the world of Daredevil was entirely necessary. Especially given that Miller (and Claremont) were also busy stuffing ninja's into Wolverine's life at the same time. The 80s were the time of Stormshadow and Snakeeyes and American Ninja, etc.. You couldn't swing a dead cat without hitting some ninja related pop culture thing. A pop culture thing that was usually aimed at teen boys. If there are two things teen boys love it's ninjas and half naked ladies who are ninjas and secretly love them. TES is full to the brim with both.

Of course, having been a teen boy myself at some point, I love ninjas. So I'm not trying to slame TES as bad or anything (I like it, I really like it) but I'm just saying it wasn't all that groundbreaking really.

One last thing is that one of the main differences between Born Again and TES is that Born Again was about Kingpin (the mob) and TES was about the Hand (ninjas). Ninjas, insofar as they don't really exist do not add the same amount of real world grit as the mob does. They just don't.
_________________
JC

So why can't you see the funny side?
Why aren't you laughing?

Dimetre · Posted: Sun Nov 19, 2006 3:06 am Post subject: Elektra saga

What made the Elektra Saga really work for me wasn't the fact that she was a half naked ninja chick. It's the fact that she and Matt had a history. It really worked on an emotional level. Her feelings for Matt were something she couldn't deny, but she wouldn't let them interfere with the task at hand. Miller showed this brilliantly.

It was a fantastic emotional conflict for Matt. She was someone he loved more than anything, and he desperately wanted to believe that she still existed as that woman. As she existed now was in opposition to everything he stood for. He needs to stop her, but he can't deny his love for her.

It's not her ninja skills, her prowess for killing or her wardrobe. It's the fantastic internal conflict she triggers in Matt and Matt triggers in her.

In my opinion, Rucka is the only writer other than Miller who has done anything decent with her, and I'm not talking about the Ultimate version, which left me underwhelmed.

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