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Gee
Playing to the Camera
Joined: 09 Feb 2005
Posts: 119
Location: Scotland
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 Posted: Sun Nov 12, 2006 11:40 pm Post subject: daredevil vs proper supervillans |
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is it just me of will it be great to see dd vs some proper supervillans like tombstone? the recent stuff has been great and very gritty but i love seeing him take on villans with powers as opposed to fighting the more 'real world' villans.
you can't beat seeing dd take on someone with vastly more dangerous powers and take them down with his super senses and ninja skills. classic example would be the fight vs the absorbing man a while back, awesome stuff.
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Forrest
Lowlife
Joined: 07 Dec 2004
Posts: 1439
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| Posted: Mon Nov 13, 2006 2:18 pm Post subject: |
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I wholeheartedly agree! Bendis's DD was great, but it's time for some good old swashbuckling and superhero action, which is exactly what Brubaker and team are bringing us! 
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Top_Quality
Playing to the Camera
Joined: 02 Jan 2005
Posts: 130
Location: Abbotsford BC
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| Posted: Wed Dec 06, 2006 1:56 am Post subject: |
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Except whenever I see DD face someone with super dynamic awesome powers I just can't really get into it. I enjoy seeing DD brawl with the best rather than... Magneto or lets say... Jesus
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Dimetre
Underboss
Joined: 16 Feb 2006
Posts: 1366
Location: Toronto
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| Posted: Wed Dec 06, 2006 2:40 am Post subject: |
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For the past twenty-five years, Daredevil has been established as an urban street-level hero, and his best villains have fit into an urban street-level environment. Villains like Kingpin and Bullseye. I don't know if the rest of you like them, but I also enjoy Ammo, Bullet, Typhoid.... Nocenti created some great Daredevil villains.
In my opinion Magneto isn't urban or street-level. Jesus isn't a villain, and Daredevil would just give him a great big hug.
Tombstone works because he fits into the environment that works best for Daredevil. Crossbones would work well too. Bushwhacker was great in Daredevil vs. Punisher. But it would be good to see someone new. |
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The Overlord
Paradiso
Joined: 22 Aug 2004
Posts: 1095
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| Posted: Thu Dec 07, 2006 11:03 pm Post subject: |
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| Dimetre wrote: | For the past twenty-five years, Daredevil has been established as an urban street-level hero, and his best villains have fit into an urban street-level environment. Villains like Kingpin and Bullseye. I don't know if the rest of you like them, but I also enjoy Ammo, Bullet, Typhoid.... Nocenti created some great Daredevil villains.
In my opinion Magneto isn't urban or street-level. Jesus isn't a villain, and Daredevil would just give him a great big hug.
Tombstone works because he fits into the environment that works best for Daredevil. Crossbones would work well too. Bushwhacker was great in Daredevil vs. Punisher. But it would be good to see someone new. |
There are no bad villains, only writers (except Stilt-Man  ). I think there are a ton of old DD villains who can be revamped to suit the modern urban street-level environment of DD. Since you covered the 80s villains, I tackle some Silver Age rogues.
Look at Purple Man, before Alias he was just a lame, generic, hypno villain, after Alias he was a psychopathic rapist, I think the new Purple Man would fit in quite well in the modern DD title.
But let's look at someone who hasn't been revamped, like Mr. Hyde. Here is a character with a lot of potenial that never gets used. He is supossed to be pure evil, but comes of as generic thug at best and total goof ball at worst. He should be a blood thristy monster, a nightmarish serial killer who engages in depraved acts for mere amusement. If he was written like that instead of as a generic thug, I think he would fit in with the modern DD title. |
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james castle
Devil in Cell-Block D
Joined: 30 Jul 2004
Posts: 1999
Location: Toronto, Ontario
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| Posted: Thu Dec 07, 2006 11:46 pm Post subject: |
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I think DD should fight Stiltman.
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JC
So why can't you see the funny side?
Why aren't you laughing? |
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The Overlord
Paradiso
Joined: 22 Aug 2004
Posts: 1095
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| Posted: Fri Dec 08, 2006 12:24 am Post subject: |
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| james castle wrote: | | I think DD should fight Stiltman. |
He died and the world stopped and mounred the passing of a truly great man.  |
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Francesco
Underboss
Joined: 08 Jun 2006
Posts: 1307
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| Posted: Fri Dec 08, 2006 12:00 pm Post subject: |
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There's no need, IMO, to "revamp" villains if they are to be brought back.
Hyde for example. I like him as he is: a "superhumanly strong guy" thug with no real purpose. |
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Forrest
Lowlife
Joined: 07 Dec 2004
Posts: 1439
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| Posted: Fri Dec 08, 2006 1:13 pm Post subject: |
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| Francesco wrote: | | There's no need, IMO, to "revamp" villains if they are to be brought back. |
I tend to agree here. The problem with DD's villains is that volume 2 (the past ~8 years) we have mostly seen Kingpin over and over, with some appearances by Bullseye, etc. Not to mention all the early volume 1 villains that were almost entirely forgotten about post-Miller.
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The Overlord
Paradiso
Joined: 22 Aug 2004
Posts: 1095
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| Posted: Fri Dec 08, 2006 1:51 pm Post subject: |
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| Francesco wrote: | There's no need, IMO, to "revamp" villains if they are to be brought back.
Hyde for example. I like him as he is: a "superhumanly strong guy" thug with no real purpose. |
Why can't Man-Bull fit that role?
Before Miller Bullseye was just the guy who throws things, until Miller revamped him into a psychopath and a personal enemy for DD. I think Bullseye was better after he was revamped.
I'm not saying Stilt-Man should be revamped as an evil psychopath, that would just be silly. I didn't have problem with Bendis changing Purple Man into a psychopathic rapist, because Killgrave was always kinda creepy (in DD#4 when he mind controlled Karen and took her to a hotel room, one can easily imagine he planned to rape her or the time he used his mind control powers to force a woman to marry him, can be seen as rape). If Bendis changed Stilt-Man into a rapist, that would have been stupid, but it fit with Purple Man.
Same deal with Hyde, Mr. Hyde claims to be pure evil, but he hardly ever does anything to back up those claims. If Hyde thinks he is pure evil, why wouldn't he act like that? IMO Hyde being evil is truer to the character than Hyde being a generic thug. |
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The Overlord
Paradiso
Joined: 22 Aug 2004
Posts: 1095
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| Posted: Fri Dec 08, 2006 1:57 pm Post subject: |
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| Forrest wrote: | | Francesco wrote: | | There's no need, IMO, to "revamp" villains if they are to be brought back. |
I tend to agree here. The problem with DD's villains is that volume 2 (the past ~8 years) we have mostly seen Kingpin over and over, with some appearances by Bullseye, etc. Not to mention all the early volume 1 villains that were almost entirely forgotten about post-Miller. |
I think you have make the villains fit in the post Miller world in order to use them, DD is a dark urban title now, if the villain can't fit into that, it would be hard to justify his or her presence in the title, unless the villain is supposed to be a joke or something. |
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Francesco
Underboss
Joined: 08 Jun 2006
Posts: 1307
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| Posted: Fri Dec 08, 2006 7:35 pm Post subject: |
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But, in fact, what Miller did with Bullseye was so admirable not because he revamped the character in the true sense of the word, but rather because he took the character, with its concept and its premises and exploited them to the maximum.
Same goes for Bendis with the Purple Man.
Back to Hyde (or any other character, for what matters), the question is: how could a writer "exploit" its character concept to have him fit nicely in the urban context of today's DD? |
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james castle
Devil in Cell-Block D
Joined: 30 Jul 2004
Posts: 1999
Location: Toronto, Ontario
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| Posted: Fri Dec 08, 2006 7:50 pm Post subject: |
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Hyde would be easy. Just make him more human. Make him a real person, a real thug or enforcer with super powers and an insanely unpredictable side. As far as I recall Hyde pretty much shows up and freaks out. If a writer just showed a bit of him in non-freakout mode it'd go a long way to make him a real (and therefore DD worthy, street level) character.
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JC
So why can't you see the funny side?
Why aren't you laughing? |
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rgj
Hardcore
Joined: 29 Jul 2004
Posts: 1580
Location: The Rio Grande Valley of Texas
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| Posted: Fri Dec 08, 2006 9:37 pm Post subject: |
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Sure, there are some DD foes that just plain suck (in concept): Stilt man and Leap Frog.
But, just about any of the rest can be made super cool by a good and talented writer. Bru's new Matador has potential just on what Bru wrote. He left the camp out. Problem is that most DD writers try to one-up Miller and concentrate on Kingpin and Bullseye and everyone else (like the Owl in Bendis's run) is a joke. But, some characters can be turned to crap too. Case in point: Bushwacker. Seems that in the DD/Punisher mini that Bushwacker, a ex-CIA type who used to hunt mutants, IS A MUTANT. A mutant who eats bullets (literally) and then fires them through, no, not a bionic arm, but a mutant morphin' appendage.
Anayway, yeah, a good writer can make any of DD's foes damn interesting. But, this is the DAREDEVIL comic. So, it's never going to happen.
rgj
Last edited by rgj on Fri Dec 08, 2006 9:38 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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The Overlord
Paradiso
Joined: 22 Aug 2004
Posts: 1095
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| Posted: Fri Dec 08, 2006 9:38 pm Post subject: |
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| Francesco wrote: | But, in fact, what Miller did with Bullseye was so admirable not because he revamped the character in the true sense of the word, but rather because he took the character, with its concept and its premises and exploited them to the maximum.
Same goes for Bendis with the Purple Man.
Back to Hyde (or any other character, for what matters), the question is: how could a writer "exploit" its character concept to have him fit nicely in the urban context of today's DD? |
The same could be said for Hyde, in theory Mr. Hyde is supposed be evil incarnate like his name sake, in practice he acts like generic thug or a goof ball. When I think of the name "Mr. Hyde" I think of a character who is evil, not just some guy who happens to be strong. The concept of Mr. hyde should be someone who is brutally evil, rather then just a generic brick (guys like Rhino and Man-Bull fill that role better than Mr. Hyde.)
What sets Hyde from DD's other psychopathic foes like Bullseye and Killgrave, is Hyde is more brutal and bloodthirsty, far less "clean" either Bulls or PM. Hyde should be engaging in truly brutal, horrorific and sadistic acts, like devoring his victims or ripping them to shreds. I think Mr. Hyde as a serial killer who embodies the nature of evil works far better in DD comics than a genric thug and that seems closer to concept of Mr. Hyde, IMO. |
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