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Gloria
Redemption
Joined: 28 Apr 2007
Posts: 711
Location: Suburbia around Barcelona
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 Posted: Sat Jun 09, 2007 3:45 pm Post subject: |
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| harryhausen wrote: | | The notion of "intellectual property" and "copyright" are both corporate nonsense, enriching publicly-owned corporations, not (the oftentimes dead) writers and artists of volume 1 DD. |
Sad but true 
Neither the authors nor their relatives seem to benefit of their past work, while others get fat over the franchise without having ever contributed to it.
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Gloria
Devuélveme el rosario de mi madre y quédate con todo lo demás
"Para la cuesta arriba quiero mi burro, que la cuesta abajo yo me la subo" |
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Francesco
Underboss
Joined: 08 Jun 2006
Posts: 1307
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| Posted: Sat Jun 09, 2007 4:37 pm Post subject: |
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| Even given these pseudo-populistic premises, I still don't like it. |
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harryhausen
Playing to the Camera
Joined: 20 Apr 2007
Posts: 129
Location: U$A
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| Posted: Sat Jun 09, 2007 4:50 pm Post subject: |
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Completely populist!
[fist in air!]
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Francesco
Underboss
Joined: 08 Jun 2006
Posts: 1307
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| Posted: Sat Jun 09, 2007 6:14 pm Post subject: |
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| harryhausen wrote: | Completely populist!
[fist in air!]
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Ha ha.
No, they're far from "completely populist", no matter which fancy sign you do with your hand. They're pseudo-populist because they just serve to hide the real, selfish purpose: "I can illegally get it for free". |
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harryhausen
Playing to the Camera
Joined: 20 Apr 2007
Posts: 129
Location: U$A
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| Posted: Sat Jun 09, 2007 6:30 pm Post subject: |
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| Or give things away for free, when I create things. And help us down the inevitable path to the wageless economy. |
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vtsoxfan7
Playing to the Camera
Joined: 31 Jan 2006
Posts: 182
Location: The 'noke, VA
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| Posted: Sat Jun 09, 2007 8:02 pm Post subject: |
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| Gloria wrote: | | Having read vtsoxfan7 previous post, i think that he'll buy as much stuff as available. |
Yeah, I'm bad about that. I've ALWAYS been that way with my collections. When I was younger it was blowing every cent of my allowance on baseball cards and now it's having to balance my limited budget (or try to) between comics and dvds. Oftentimes I'll pick something up loose then snag the HC or trade for future readthroughs...that and HCs are just flat out nice!
| harryhausen wrote: |
Incidentally, I have cleaned up a few times on auctions of "lots" of volume 1 DD, scoring huge chunks (50 -75 issues at a time) for as little as $35-$40 - including the shipping. Just an idea. I just trade any dupliactes at my LCS.
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I may have to look into this from time to time when I've got any extra cash. I generally try to avoid ebay because of my afforementioned affliction to buying about anything DD related. Could be a very good option because I'm sure as I read through alot of this vol. 1 stuff I wouldn't mind picking up my own copy. Pride of ownership almost always wins out in my case when it comes to anything downloaded or borrowed from a friend!
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'So I've got THAT going for me...which is nice' - Bill Murray, Caddyshack |
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Francesco
Underboss
Joined: 08 Jun 2006
Posts: 1307
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| Posted: Sun Jun 10, 2007 1:04 pm Post subject: |
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| harryhausen wrote: | | Or give things away for free, when I create things. And help us down the inevitable path to the wageless economy. |
Meanwhile, I get to read all those cute comics whose producers have invested money to create, publish and distribute. And I pride myself by dreaming that I'm helping the industry with it. |
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Darediva
Wake Up
Joined: 29 Jul 2004
Posts: 1208
Location: Hell's Kitchen South, Arkansas, USA
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| Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2007 1:40 am Post subject: |
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| harryhausen wrote: | | The notion of "intellectual property" and "copyright" are both corporate nonsense, enriching publicly-owned corporations, not (the oftentimes dead) writers and artists of volume 1 DD. |
Dead wrong on many counts. Many writers and artists did not create the characters, and did or do work for hire for the companies who publish. It is in their job description to hand over their work to the people who hold the trademarks or copyrights, just as people who work in drug research (for example) do not personally profit from a new find in that arena.
I will agree that those who have created their own characters, like David Mack did with Kabuki, and Bendis did with Powers, should be able to profit from that creation, and they do.
I will not get into a huge debate here over intellectual property laws in the US, but I am fairly well versed in them, owning many of my own copyrights on published work. Believe me, it looks different when you are on the other side of the fence.
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Alice
Those who throw dirt merely lose ground. |
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Francesco
Underboss
Joined: 08 Jun 2006
Posts: 1307
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| Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2007 5:26 am Post subject: |
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Yeah, especially when you're the one paying for human resources (writers, inkers, penciler, colorists, other staff) for the raw material (paper, glue, ink), for the distribution and for advertising.
So let's just think about it for a millisecond before saying that they're getting fat over the franchise without having ever contributed to it. |
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Gloria
Redemption
Joined: 28 Apr 2007
Posts: 711
Location: Suburbia around Barcelona
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| Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2007 10:23 am Post subject: |
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| Francesco wrote: | | So let's just think about it for a millisecond before saying that they're getting fat over the franchise without having ever contributed to it. |
Right Now, most Comics authors have rights over their creations, and get benefits from any further merchandising (i.e. Todd Mcfarlane, Rob Liefeld).
But this was mostly originated by the authors choosing to be their own bosses than the mercy of the publishers.
While it is true that Stan Lee has reaped the benefits of his creations at Marvel, Gene Colan, Steve Ditko or jack Kirby seem to have had little beyond the love of fans and the actual pay-per-page that they got when they originally submitted their work to Marvel. Editors like Jim Shooter or Joe Quesada probably have got more money from the Fantastic Four or captain America than Jack Kirby (their co-creator) ever did
Why, for instance, Alan Moore doesn't work with Marvel or DC anymore? Because he got fed up of his work not being respected
Do you think that Frank Miller has got any royalties from other people using Elektra? No, and what's worse, she's often misused by other authors
And Alice, I won't say that the author's rights don't have to be protected, of course they have to, even if with the mild shield of Creative Commons ... Now let me tell you a story: I worked for months in an article for a magazine. It wasn't a work for money, but a work of love over I subject of my interest. I carefully addressed every publisher, or records repository, whenever original material was used or quoted, and the magazine is a non-profit one... Well, one day I take my only copy of it to a Photocopy shop, as a friend was interested in reading the article, and making a copy for him prevented my only copy getting eventually lost. I was shocked that the shop clerks told me that they couldn't make a few photocopies because I would be harming the author's rights! I had to show my National Identity card and material proof of my authorship in order to just make a few photocopies (good think they didn't ask me for fingerprints or undress in the search room!)
You see, the law was protecting me from... myself! (I feel so-o-o dangerous now that the Black Widow is like Little Riding Red Hood by my side)
I have on a website the results of many years' dedicated research by a friend of mine and me over a common interest. Even though my friend's website ( where the work is published) is protected by Copyright, we're only too aware that anyone might do a paste and cut and put it somewhere else... But we'd rather take the chance and expand the knowledge over a subject we love (and anyway, we have the original photos, documents, etc)
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Gloria
Devuélveme el rosario de mi madre y quédate con todo lo demás
"Para la cuesta arriba quiero mi burro, que la cuesta abajo yo me la subo" |
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Francesco
Underboss
Joined: 08 Jun 2006
Posts: 1307
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| Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2007 10:59 am Post subject: |
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| Gloria wrote: | | Francesco wrote: | | So let's just think about it for a millisecond before saying that they're getting fat over the franchise without having ever contributed to it. |
Right Now, most Comics authors have rights over their creations, and get benefits from any further merchandising (i.e. Todd Mcfarlane, Rob Liefeld).
But this was mostly originated by the authors choosing to be their own bosses than the mercy of the publishers.
While it is true that Stan Lee has reaped the benefits of his creations at Marvel, Gene Colan, Steve Ditko or jack Kirby seem to have had little beyond the love of fans and the actual pay-per-page that they got when they originally submitted their work to Marvel. Editors like Jim Shooter or Joe Quesada probably have got more money from the Fantastic Four or captain America than Jack Kirby (their co-creator) ever did
Why, for instance, Alan Moore doesn't work with Marvel or DC anymore? Because he got fed up of his work not being respected
Do you think that Frank Miller has got any royalties from other people using Elektra? No, and what's worse, she's often misused by other authors |
(apart from the fact that "character X created by author Y is misused by company Z" is a purely subjective consideration) those writers and artist are only asked to do their work. They got payed for that.
Nobody ever dreamed to ask them to maintain all the staff, to pay for the material, distribution, advertising of the company they're working for. Nobody ever asked them to share the risk of having the company being at loss.
Saying that the company owners, or the editors are "getting fat over the franchise" is, plainly and simply injust.
Those who're really "getting fat" are those who download stuff without paying for it and then spout out sterile considerations on "how bad, bad, villain the corporations are" as excuse for their illegal behaviour. |
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Gloria
Redemption
Joined: 28 Apr 2007
Posts: 711
Location: Suburbia around Barcelona
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| Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2007 11:01 am Post subject: |
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Yes, but I have almost to get the police just to photocopy my own article.
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Gloria
Devuélveme el rosario de mi madre y quédate con todo lo demás
"Para la cuesta arriba quiero mi burro, que la cuesta abajo yo me la subo" |
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Francesco
Underboss
Joined: 08 Jun 2006
Posts: 1307
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| Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2007 11:05 am Post subject: |
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| And so what's the solution? We make photocopying of anything legal? |
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harryhausen
Playing to the Camera
Joined: 20 Apr 2007
Posts: 129
Location: U$A
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| Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2007 11:06 am Post subject: |
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I hear what you're all saying, but I guess we have fundamental differences of opinion about "copyright." And that's cool.
I am on the other side of the fence (exclusively, I might add - as in I don't have another source of income besides purely "creative" endeavors), and still am an ardent enemy of IP. The pharmaceutical industry example is an illustrative one - Pfizer makes enough from Viagra that they could and should release the rest of their 'patents' to the public - AIDS drugs to Africa, for example.
Taking it up a notch, pharmaceuticals should, in my opinion, be state-run, if not international in some way. No reason that health care should ever be about profits. Besides, much of the research is conducted at state- and federally-supported institutions. It belongs to everyone.
Plus, in this case. No one involved with the creation of the comic is seeing any profits. Speaking of Volume 1 DD, it's all used and in the hands of others already. So no one gets defrauded if I give away DD#127 to everyone I see. Sure, if I scan DD #97, V2 and sell DVDs of it, I run afoul of the law; but that's a different point. If I give it away, that's a different point again - one open to much debate. Disseminating without profit is a real gray area, of course.
And I say 'completely populist' because I walk the walk - much to my own financial detriment. If the People don't reform the system in my lifetime, We will in my son's lifetime. It's a-comin'.
Sorry to hijack your thread, soxfan!
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Gloria
Redemption
Joined: 28 Apr 2007
Posts: 711
Location: Suburbia around Barcelona
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| Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2007 3:21 pm Post subject: |
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| Francesco wrote: | | And so what's the solution? We make photocopying of anything legal? |
Well I suppose I can photocopy my own article, can I?
Since I mentioned Alan Moore, I could bring an example that another world is possible.
Alan Moore is publishing with TopShelfComics. When Moore publishes a comic with them, it is obvious that TopShelfComics doesn't take the costs of publishing for free: they get their share of benefits as editors, as far as they have spent money in materializing the comics, but Moore also gets a fair share as the author.
This way, Moore has full intellectual rights over his characters, and the editor doesn't interfere to change stories, and Moore could publish these caracters elsewhere if he wanted. Here both the author and the publisher are satisfied. The same goes for the Hernandez Bros and Fantagraphics. Authors can own their materials and the publishers will still be able to make benefit for their going through the trouble of printing, distributing, etc...
The funny thing about this example is that, for instance, Moore's "League of Extraordinary Gentlemen" features characters created by other people, which are currently copyright free LOL
The old "get a few bucks for your pages and forget about the rest" doesn't work any longer... Even Marvel and DC give some share to their successful authors (lest they might go to publish elsewhere). If we don't have a trade paperback of Bob Gale's "playing to the Camera" is precisely because there wasn't an agreement between him and Marvel.
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Gloria
Devuélveme el rosario de mi madre y quédate con todo lo demás
"Para la cuesta arriba quiero mi burro, que la cuesta abajo yo me la subo" |
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