|
Daredevil Message Board The Board Without Fear!
|
The Message Board is currently in read-only mode, as the software is now out of date. Several features and pages have been removed. If/When I get time I intend to re-launch the board with updated software.
View previous topic :: View next topic |
Author |
Message |
Ian Flying Blind
Joined: 08 Mar 2007 Posts: 33
|
Posted: Wed Oct 01, 2008 11:24 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Oh my gosh, I can't believe all of this sanctimonious whining. If you want a writer/character that Jesus would approve of, I'm sure the wonks at Zondervan publish a comic right up your alley. I'm sorry Bru has you hiding your comics from your Mom, but seriously everybody, let's get a grip. _________________ "Show me a superhero without a first aid kit, an I'll show you a NUT!" (Daredevil #9) |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Dave Wallace Paradiso
Joined: 29 Jul 2004 Posts: 1074 Location: Birmingham, UK
|
Posted: Thu Oct 02, 2008 3:53 am Post subject: |
|
|
Ian wrote: | Oh my gosh, I can't believe all of this sanctimonious whining. If you want a writer/character that Jesus would approve of, I'm sure the wonks at Zondervan publish a comic right up your alley. I'm sorry Bru has you hiding your comics from your Mom, but seriously everybody, let's get a grip. |
And the thread was going so well, too... |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Francesco Underboss
Joined: 08 Jun 2006 Posts: 1307
|
Posted: Thu Oct 02, 2008 4:37 am Post subject: |
|
|
Dave Wallace wrote: |
And the thread was going so well, too... |
It couldn't have lasted. But four full pages going well over a controversial topic is a remarkable accomplishment. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
james castle Devil in Cell-Block D
Joined: 30 Jul 2004 Posts: 1999 Location: Toronto, Ontario
|
Posted: Thu Oct 02, 2008 4:34 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Oh man.
I trade wait so I was avoiding this thread even when it hit five pages. But then "the moment" was spoiled by in the latest episode of "Fresh Ink" which was titled "Daredevil's STD is Danger" so I thought I'd see what everyone was saying. Anyway, my take without having read the issue:
1. I don't like it simply because it feeds the ridiculous "Daredevil is a horndog" crap. At the time Smith was running around telling everyone DD was a horndog Matt had not been in any more relationships than other heroes who had been in print since the 60s. However, somehow the idea caught on and now writers are writing Matt like he is a horndog and we get a selfulfilling prophecy. Lame.
2. The Typhoid thing is different because I think an aspect of that was Nocenti wanting us to dislike Matt for it. It was a bad thing for him to do. That was the point. I haven't read the issue but I predict the "opps, I shouldn't have done that!" bit may fall flat (as it always does).
3. There's been some discussion of what difference drinking makes. The correct answer: all the difference in the world. That said, Matt doesn't usually drink. In Born Again he actually says "I don't drink". _________________ JC
So why can't you see the funny side?
Why aren't you laughing? |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Francesco Underboss
Joined: 08 Jun 2006 Posts: 1307
|
Posted: Fri Oct 03, 2008 5:33 am Post subject: |
|
|
Then I think you'll love this:
James Hunt, reviewer at cbr wrote: | It’s not uncommon for people to claim that Matt Murdock is the Marvel Universe’s foremost “player” with the ladies. Clearly it’s a concept Brubaker is comfortable with, as this issue sees Matt add another notch to billy club in the form of Dakota North. |
Oh, and also this "pearl" here:
Hunt wrote: |
With Matt’s wife Milla still a presence in the book (if not actually appearing) it plays directly into the Catholic guilt that is such a large part of Matt’s portrayal. |
I was about to throw up when I read that. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Dave Wallace Paradiso
Joined: 29 Jul 2004 Posts: 1074 Location: Birmingham, UK
|
Posted: Fri Oct 03, 2008 5:53 am Post subject: |
|
|
Francesco wrote: | Then I think you'll love this:
James Hunt, reviewer at cbr wrote: | It’s not uncommon for people to claim that Matt Murdock is the Marvel Universe’s foremost “player” with the ladies. Clearly it’s a concept Brubaker is comfortable with, as this issue sees Matt add another notch to billy club in the form of Dakota North. |
|
I don't think that the reviewer is necessarily condoning that take on Matt, though - he's just saying that this latest development seems to fit with that characterisation, whether rightly or wrongly.
Francesco wrote: | Oh, and also this "pearl" here:
Hunt wrote: |
With Matt’s wife Milla still a presence in the book (if not actually appearing) it plays directly into the Catholic guilt that is such a large part of Matt’s portrayal. |
I was about to throw up when I read that. |
Is it the reference to "Catholic Guilt" that bothers you? Obviously, Matt's religion plays a large part in his life, and I think that you can certainly argue that his struggle to reconcile his life with his Catholic principles has led to some guilty feelings on his part. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
jumonji Guardian Devil
Joined: 23 Sep 2007 Posts: 636 Location: Too close to the Arctic circle
|
Posted: Fri Oct 03, 2008 5:54 am Post subject: |
|
|
james castle wrote: | I don't like it simply because it feeds the ridiculous "Daredevil is a horndog" crap. At the time Smith was running around telling everyone DD was a horndog Matt had not been in any more relationships than other heroes who had been in print since the 60s. However, somehow the idea caught on and now writers are writing Matt like he is a horndog and we get a selfulfilling prophecy. Lame. |
I don't think Brubaker should be limited in his storytelling by people's baseless and preconceived notions about Matt's sex life (especially since these notions aren't even based on the actual comic, but rather other people's uninformed opinions). He can only work with the character as it is, and I think he's doing a good job of it. The "Matt is a horndog thing" is absurd. He's in his mid-thirties and has had sex with less than ten women. Yeah, he's such a player... Darn you Kevin Smith!
james castle wrote: | I haven't read the issue but I predict the "opps, I shouldn't have done that!" bit may fall flat (as it always does). |
I think you may feel differently about this after having read the issue. I thought it was handled appropriately. _________________ The Other Murdock Papers |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Francesco Underboss
Joined: 08 Jun 2006 Posts: 1307
|
Posted: Fri Oct 03, 2008 6:06 am Post subject: |
|
|
Quote: |
I don't think that the reviewer is necessarily condoning that take on Matt, though - he's just saying that this latest development seems to fit with that characterisation, whether rightly or wrongly. |
The reviewer is not condoning it with that (not directly in fact), but that particular way he's using to say it ("adding a notch to the billy-club") implies a very superficial knowledge of the book and, in general, of the character.
Quote: | Is it the reference to "Catholic Guilt" that bothers you? Obviously, Matt's religion plays a large part in his life |
I disagree. That's a commonplace that oversimplifies the character (and that stinks of Kevin Smith). |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Dave Wallace Paradiso
Joined: 29 Jul 2004 Posts: 1074 Location: Birmingham, UK
|
Posted: Fri Oct 03, 2008 6:12 am Post subject: |
|
|
I'm not saying that Matt's a devout Catholic - his relationship with his religion is complicated and complex, as you say - but I still think that religion informs his life to quite a large degree.
Obviously, certain writers have chosen to explore that more than others - but I always took Matt's commitment to the sanctity of marriage as a result of his relgious upbringing, at least in part. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
jumonji Guardian Devil
Joined: 23 Sep 2007 Posts: 636 Location: Too close to the Arctic circle
|
Posted: Fri Oct 03, 2008 6:15 am Post subject: |
|
|
Dave Wallace wrote: | Obviously, Matt's religion plays a large part in his life, and I think that you can certainly argue that his struggle to reconcile his life with his Catholic principles has led to some guilty feelings on his part. |
We had this discussion in that surprisingly good religion thread a while back, but I actually take issue with Matt's religion being a large part of his life. Why? Outside of Guardian Devil, we've never seen him be a practising Catholic, and to me, the "devout Catholic" label is as erroneous as the "Matt is a player" label (and isn't it funny that those two notions are supposedly both true even though they seem contradictory?).
I don't take issue with some aspects of the idea of Catholic guilt, since I think it's fairly obvious that all people are influenced by their cultural backgrounds. In my country, we have a saying that people have "Luther sitting on their shoulder" and it's well known that Swedish culture is influenced by many of the ideas of a rather strict form of Lutheranism. At the same time, we're one of the most secular peoples in the world.
By the same token, you could certainly say that Matt is shaped by his background, and that Irish Catholicism influences his thinking about the world and his place in it. I also wholeheartedly accept that he believes in a higher power, and has some amount of attachment to the church he was raised in. However, I just don't see where the idea of him being particularly religious comes from. I don't even see it in Born Again. When Kevin Smith had him threaten Karen Page with the fires of hell if she didn't come to church with him - albeit jokingly - I thought that was one of the most out of character things I'd ever read in this book. It was a huge turn-off. Matt may be a lot of things, but religious bigot isn't one of them.
So, Catholic guilt? Sure, there is certainly that, but I don't see how being identified as belonging to a certain religion necessarily makes the character religious, especially since he's only very rarely been portrayed as such. _________________ The Other Murdock Papers |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Francesco Underboss
Joined: 08 Jun 2006 Posts: 1307
|
Posted: Fri Oct 03, 2008 6:21 am Post subject: |
|
|
Good points.
In any case, I'd like to stress that this one post of mine was, in fact, a criticism towards the reviewer, quite separated from my views on the current issue. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Gloria Redemption
Joined: 28 Apr 2007 Posts: 711 Location: Suburbia around Barcelona
|
Posted: Fri Oct 03, 2008 10:15 am Post subject: |
|
|
It just came to me today at work.
Some issues ago, we were joking putting words to a non-text preview during the Mr. Fear arc.
In my rendition, Foggy and Matt were talking about playing strip poker with Dakota (Jumonji later made a RIOTOUS take on the idea )
I don't know if that was pre-cognition, but right now I'm knocking my head on the wall for NOT HAVING BOUGHT A LOTTERY TICKET THAT DAY!!
Damn an' blast! _________________ Gloria
Devuélveme el rosario de mi madre y quédate con todo lo demás
"Para la cuesta arriba quiero mi burro, que la cuesta abajo yo me la subo" |
|
Back to top |
|
|
DD1987 Flying Blind
Joined: 03 Oct 2008 Posts: 3
|
Posted: Fri Oct 03, 2008 11:06 am Post subject: |
|
|
Long time Daredevil fan, first time posting here though. I like the issue and the new villain but honestly, I like Bendis' characterization of Matt more. Bru's Matt is depressing to read while Bendis and even Miller's Matt was an inspiring character. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
james castle Devil in Cell-Block D
Joined: 30 Jul 2004 Posts: 1999 Location: Toronto, Ontario
|
Posted: Fri Oct 03, 2008 11:18 am Post subject: |
|
|
jumonji wrote: | Dave Wallace wrote: | Obviously, Matt's religion plays a large part in his life, and I think that you can certainly argue that his struggle to reconcile his life with his Catholic principles has led to some guilty feelings on his part. |
We had this discussion in that surprisingly good religion thread a while back, but I actually take issue with Matt's religion being a large part of his life. Why? Outside of Guardian Devil, we've never seen him be a practising Catholic, and to me, the "devout Catholic" label is as erroneous as the "Matt is a player" label (and isn't it funny that those two notions are supposedly both true even though they seem contradictory?).
|
I agree 100%. Matt's religion plays a large part in his life. Only he doesn't go to church. And he never mentions god or religion. And he doesn't think about them either. And religious concerns never come up and have zero effect on his actions. Wait, what does "large part" mean again? _________________ JC
So why can't you see the funny side?
Why aren't you laughing? |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Dave Wallace Paradiso
Joined: 29 Jul 2004 Posts: 1074 Location: Birmingham, UK
|
Posted: Fri Oct 03, 2008 11:26 am Post subject: |
|
|
Wasn't Matt brought up in the Roman Catholic tradition by his father (with his mother leaving his father in order to pursue a life as a nun)? Even if he doesn't go to church every Sunday, that kind of background can still inform a person's personality to a large extent.
Perhaps he doesn't pray regularly or talk about God or his religion (although some writers appear to have played this up more than others), but I think it would be overly simplistic to say that religion isn't an important part of his character just because he's not a practising Catholic. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
Powered by phpBB © phpBB Group
|