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CyberGhostface
Playing to the Camera
Joined: 01 May 2005
Posts: 109
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 Posted: Wed Apr 11, 2007 9:02 pm Post subject: Thunderbolts |
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(My apologies if there is an existing topic...I did a search and no major topics came up)
Anyone reading Warren Ellis's run on Thunderbolts? Bullseye's in there, and he's pretty sick and twisted. In the first issue he relates on how, after assassinating someone, he came upon a father and a little boy with a popsicle. What does he do? He throws away the ice, splits the stick into two and sticks them into their eyes. His only remorse? That it was a shame to get rid of a popsicle on a hot day.
I'm also glad that he's back in his classic costume instead of his movie-lite one.
Its a very good title right now. I'm not familar with the series prior but its one of my favorites now. |
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Forrest
Lowlife
Joined: 07 Dec 2004
Posts: 1439
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| Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2007 10:19 am Post subject: |
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How is that title working out as far as people that crazy not just killing each other? It'd see that very story as a reason why Bullseye simply cannot be controlled.
...Then again, Hush controlled the Joker. Then again, Loeb wrote that and ANYTHING can happen in his books. 
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CyberGhostface
Playing to the Camera
Joined: 01 May 2005
Posts: 109
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Francesco
Underboss
Joined: 08 Jun 2006
Posts: 1307
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| Posted: Fri Apr 13, 2007 6:00 am Post subject: |
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| Forrest wrote: | | How is that title working out as far as people that crazy not just killing each other? |
I wondered that too. And I had doubts about it, too. But they came out with a neat stratagem to justify that.
Also thumbs up for the flashback of Miller's "Roulette". |
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Forrest
Lowlife
Joined: 07 Dec 2004
Posts: 1439
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| Posted: Fri Apr 13, 2007 10:12 am Post subject: |
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| Francesco wrote: |
Also thumbs up for the flashback of Miller's "Roulette". |
I was just thinking that. Also, the dialogue in those pages isn't half bad. ...still don't know if I'll give it a shot. However, now that I think about it, I haven't read hardly any Ellis. Other than the one DD issue (which I hated because it was just a confusing and awkward lead in to DeMatteis's arc), I've only read his Ultimate Fantastic Four arcs, which I actually really liked. In fact, I'd probably still pick up UFF, if he was on it. ...still, I don't know if I'm feeling brave enough for Thunderbolts, especially when the Secret Six are making an appearance in Birds of Prey. Maybe I will just check out New Universal or Fell...
(Yep, that was just a ramble. It's Friday.  )
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Neilan
Tree of Knowledge
Joined: 27 Mar 2007
Posts: 216
Location: Southampton, PA
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| Posted: Fri Apr 13, 2007 11:48 am Post subject: |
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| Forrest wrote: | | Francesco wrote: |
Also thumbs up for the flashback of Miller's "Roulette". |
I was just thinking that. Also, the dialogue in those pages isn't half bad. ...still don't know if I'll give it a shot. However, now that I think about it, I haven't read hardly any Ellis. Other than the one DD issue (which I hated because it was just a confusing and awkward lead in to DeMatteis's arc), I've only read his Ultimate Fantastic Four arcs, which I actually really liked. In fact, I'd probably still pick up UFF, if he was on it. ...still, I don't know if I'm feeling brave enough for Thunderbolts, especially when the Secret Six are making an appearance in Birds of Prey. Maybe I will just check out New Universal or Fell... ) |
I, too, am enjoying this Thunderbolts series and I’m looking forward to seeing how this all comes crashing down around Osborn’s head. The art by Deodato very much appeals to me, but I was already a fan of his work from Amazing S-M and New Avengers. I remember not being quite so enamored of his work in Incredible Hulk, but I guess his style has evolved since then (or is it possible I have? Nah!) There’s one panel in Thunderbolts, I don’t remember which issue (#3, perhaps?) where Osborn is a dead ringer for actor Tommy Lee Jones who I think would be a great choice to play Norman.
I haven’t read much of Warren Ellis’ work, just the aforementioned one issue of DD, and his Ultimate Galactus trilogy, of which I only liked the first part, Ultimate Nightmare. But I’ve seen so many positive reviews of his work that I’m not ready to give up on him. I’ve acquired his Stormwatch trades and have one more issue of Authority to track down before immersing myself in a ton of Ellis and those who followed him on the title. If it winds up being disappointing, at least it will lead me to Brubaker’s Authority: Revolution issues. Now, that I’m liking Thunderbolts, I have hope that I didn’t waste a ton of money collecting Stormwatch, Authority (Vols 1 & 2), Authority: Revolution, some Monarchy and Coup D’etat. If anybody has read Stormwatch/Authority, please let me know that I have plenty of good reading ahead of me. If you hated it, well then I guess I’m screwed.
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Francesco
Underboss
Joined: 08 Jun 2006
Posts: 1307
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| Posted: Sat Apr 14, 2007 4:18 am Post subject: |
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| Forrest wrote: | | Francesco wrote: |
Also thumbs up for the flashback of Miller's "Roulette". |
I was just thinking that. Also, the dialogue in those pages isn't half bad. |
You know, things like these make a comic more enjoyable. To me at least. We have a "boss" character telling Bullseye if he knows how it feels like to be paralyzed, and Bullseye has a flashback of those moments and then coldly replies "yes".
A little trick like this, a wink to continuity, and the author manages to express concepts, emotions, that if told in words, would've required a lot more space, still without obtaining the same effect.
The opposite of this is when you read Kingpin being still around as a plot device for another book. But that's another story.
BTW, Forrest, did you get my PM? |
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Forrest
Lowlife
Joined: 07 Dec 2004
Posts: 1439
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| Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2007 11:51 am Post subject: |
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| Neilan wrote: |
I, too, am enjoying this Thunderbolts series [. . .] |
You quoted me but my quote said that I am not reading Thunderbolts.
| Francesco wrote: |
You know, things like these make a comic more enjoyable. To me at least. We have a "boss" character telling Bullseye if he knows how it feels like to be paralyzed, and Bullseye has a flashback of those moments and then coldly replies "yes".
A little trick like this, a wink to continuity, and the author manages to express concepts, emotions, that if told in words, would've required a lot more space, still without obtaining the same effect. |
AND this writer used an accurate flashback to Miller's DD, unlike another Marvel writer who shall not be named but definitely should have known better.
| Francesco wrote: | | The opposite of this is when you read Kingpin being still around as a plot device for another book. But that's another story. |
Don't you mean "books," instead of "book?" After all, in Runaways Fisk is free and active in NYC, in Amazing Spider-man he is in prison and messing with Peter Parker and in DD he's exiled and broken down in Europe, all post-Civil War.
Continuity is not something I usually get caught up on unless it is really, really bad (e.g. Murdock Papers). However, you're right, when continuity is accurately used as a storytelling tool, it can be very powerful.
| Francesco wrote: | | BTW, Forrest, did you get my PM? |
No, actually. There are no PM in my inbox.
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Forrest
Lowlife
Joined: 07 Dec 2004
Posts: 1439
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| Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2007 11:57 am Post subject: |
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| Neilan wrote: | | The art by Deodato very much appeals to me, but I was already a fan of his work from Amazing S-M and New Avengers. |
I LOVE Deodato's work and I always have! (I think the first I saw of his work was in the 90s Elektra series. BTW, his art was the only good thing about that series. )
I've heard a lot of people bash Deodato's art and I understand that about as well as I understand others' love for JRJr.'s non-DD art. To each his own.
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Neilan
Tree of Knowledge
Joined: 27 Mar 2007
Posts: 216
Location: Southampton, PA
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| Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2007 2:45 pm Post subject: |
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Forrest wrote:
| Quote: | Neilan wrote:
I, too, am enjoying this Thunderbolts series [. . .]
You quoted me but my quote said that I am not reading Thunderbolts.
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Boy, someone's cranky today. But seriously, I thought I was addressing the part of your post where you quoted Francesco, when I mentioned I was enjoying the TBolts. I thought the rest of your post would relate to my wanting more opinions on Ellis, so that's why I used it. I know that my quoting of others still needs work. I'm still struggling with this new-fangled technology you kids, today, have embraced so easily. 
But since you mentioned continuity, the reason why continuity matters to me is that I view reading characters like DD or Spidey as one long biography, so that when something contradictory comes up in a book, it can have negative impact on my understanding of the character. I realize that each creative team has their own perspective and their own stories to tell, but I appreciate when it fits in with what we know and have seen of that character's behavior and his past history. I'm not saying that characters should never change, just that as we watch their evolution, the past should be used as a jumping off point and not be completely tossed aside.
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Forrest
Lowlife
Joined: 07 Dec 2004
Posts: 1439
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| Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2007 5:53 pm Post subject: |
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| Neilan wrote: | Forrest wrote:
| Quote: | Neilan wrote:
I, too, am enjoying this Thunderbolts series [. . .]
You quoted me but my quote said that I am not reading Thunderbolts.
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Boy, someone's cranky today. |
See and this time you cut my quote short. I included at the end to show that my comment was meant to be light hearted. I was just setting the record straight because I have and do criticize the premise of this new Thunderbolts and I don't want anyone to think that I'm claiming I've read it because I have not. That is all I was shooting for.
| Neilan wrote: | But seriously, I thought I was addressing the part of your post where you quoted Francesco, when I mentioned I was enjoying the TBolts. I thought the rest of your post would relate to my wanting more opinions on Ellis, so that's why I used it. I know that my quoting of others still needs work. I'm still struggling with this new-fangled technology you kids, today, have embraced so easily.
But since you mentioned continuity, the reason why continuity matters to me is that I view reading characters like DD or Spidey as one long biography, so that when something contradictory comes up in a book, it can have negative impact on my understanding of the character. I realize that each creative team has their own perspective and their own stories to tell, but I appreciate when it fits in with what we know and have seen of that character's behavior and his past history. I'm not saying that characters should never change, just that as we watch their evolution, the past should be used as a jumping off point and not be completely tossed aside. |
I couldn't have said it better myself!
Writers should view continuity like grammar; it's there to keep the writer and reader in sync. When grammar is neglected, the reader has difficulties understanding what the writer is trying to convey. If grammar is neglected badly enough, the reader just doesn't know what to make for the what's in front of them.
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Neilan
Tree of Knowledge
Joined: 27 Mar 2007
Posts: 216
Location: Southampton, PA
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| Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2007 7:14 pm Post subject: |
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Forrest wrote:
| Quote: | | See and this time you cut my quote short. I included at the end to show that my comment was meant to be light hearted. |
See, that's the other thing I have trouble with, the emoticons.
That Razz guy keeps ticking me off because he's sticking his tongue out at me. 
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Francesco
Underboss
Joined: 08 Jun 2006
Posts: 1307
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| Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2007 11:53 am Post subject: |
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| Boy. Following what's going on in a topic it's definitely getting harder and harder. |
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CyberGhostface
Playing to the Camera
Joined: 01 May 2005
Posts: 109
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| Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2007 12:29 pm Post subject: |
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Well, in defense of the others' titles uses of KP...
In ASM, he's still in jail and there are several referenceboxes stating that it takes place before DD 94.
In Runaways, I don't know the specifics, but I think he's just cleaning up some old errands before leaving.
I'm not too crazy about it either but they aren't ignoring Brubaker's run. |
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harryhausen
Playing to the Camera
Joined: 20 Apr 2007
Posts: 129
Location: U$A
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| Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2007 12:53 am Post subject: |
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Can't say I've done more than just peek at this 'Thunderbolts,' but I think Ellis, in general, is great. Dig his 'Extremis' arc in Iron Man, for sure. Even if you don't like the story, he is a super-tight writer - lots of internal references and subtle foreshadowing, parallelisms, the whole shebang.
I know he's smart and I bet he's handling the characters well, to boot. |
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