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The Overlord
Paradiso
Joined: 22 Aug 2004
Posts: 1095
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 Posted: Sat Dec 09, 2006 1:48 am Post subject: |
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| rgj wrote: | Sure, there are some DD foes that just plain suck (in concept): Stilt man and Leap Frog.
But, just about any of the rest can be made super cool by a good and talented writer. Bru's new Matador has potential just on what Bru wrote. He left the camp out. Problem is that most DD writers try to one-up Miller and concentrate on Kingpin and Bullseye and everyone else (like the Owl in Bendis's run) is a joke. But, some characters can be turned to crap too. Case in point: Bushwacker. Seems that in the DD/Punisher mini that Bushwacker, a ex-CIA type who used to hunt mutants, IS A MUTANT. A mutant who eats bullets (literally) and then fires them through, no, not a bionic arm, but a mutant morphin' appendage.
Anayway, yeah, a good writer can make any of DD's foes damn interesting. But, this is the DAREDEVIL comic. So, it's never going to happen.
rgj |
I think things have changed with the arrival of Brubaker, on other titles like Gotham Central and Captain America, Ed was willing to use forgotten C-list characters like Mad Hatter and Crossbones to good effect, so it seems Brubaker would repeat this in DD. I mean Brubaker was willing to create a new version of Matador to fit in the post Miller DD world and Matador was by far one the lamest DD villains ever.
A interview by Brubaker on DD, confirms my beliefs:
http://www.comicbookresources.com/news/newsitem.cgi?id=8673
Here is the important parts:
"Brubaker couldn't reveal much about what the future holds for Matt Murdock in upcoming issues of “Daredevil,” but he could say that some supervillains will definitely be causing problems for Murdock in the storyline that comes after “The Devil Takes a Ride.” “It takes place in New York,” Brubaker said. “It involves a bunch of classic Daredevil villains and sort of sets the stage for a lot of trouble coming Matt's way. Just because we got him out of prison and some stuff will be resolved does not mean that Matt Murdock's life is going to get any easier necessarily. Just because Foggy's not dead and Matt is not in a prison cell with people waiting outside to shank him does not mean that his life is going to necessarily get any better."
“An old classic Daredevil villain that I always thought could be used to a better extent than they were being used is going to come back. There are hints about him in the [ “The Devil Takes a Ride”] and then he sort of becomes a bigger presence during the third arc and his attacks on Daredevil are mainly like the fourth arc of the book."
Seems like Brubaker is more then willing to move on and cover DD villains besides Bullseye and Kingpin. |
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james castle
Devil in Cell-Block D
Joined: 30 Jul 2004
Posts: 1999
Location: Toronto, Ontario
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| Posted: Sat Dec 09, 2006 3:14 am Post subject: |
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| rgj wrote: | Case in point: Bushwacker. Seems that in the DD/Punisher mini that Bushwacker, a ex-CIA type who used to hunt mutants, IS A MUTANT. A mutant who eats bullets (literally) and then fires them through, no, not a bionic arm, but a mutant morphin' appendage.
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WHAT? WHAT? WHAT? Didn't we see people working on Bushwacker's very clearly mechanical arm at some point in Nocenti's run? This is just ridiculous.
_________________
JC
So why can't you see the funny side?
Why aren't you laughing? |
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The Overlord
Paradiso
Joined: 22 Aug 2004
Posts: 1095
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| Posted: Sat Dec 09, 2006 3:23 am Post subject: |
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| james castle wrote: | | rgj wrote: | Case in point: Bushwacker. Seems that in the DD/Punisher mini that Bushwacker, a ex-CIA type who used to hunt mutants, IS A MUTANT. A mutant who eats bullets (literally) and then fires them through, no, not a bionic arm, but a mutant morphin' appendage.
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WHAT? WHAT? WHAT? Didn't we see people working on Bushwacker's very clearly mechanical arm at some point in Nocenti's run? This is just ridiculous. |
Yeah, I didn't think that sense either. I like Bushwacker better as cyborg and religious nut (Bushwacker using faith to justify evil acts could be an interesting contrast to DD who uses his faith as basis to commit good deeds). Getting Bushwacker too involved in mutant affairs could mean he would get swept into the X-Men mythos and suddenly he becomes a Wolverine villain instead of a DD one. With Bushwacker the focus should be on his faith, not whether he is a mutant or not. |
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Solid Snake PAC
Playing to the Camera
Joined: 24 Jan 2006
Posts: 130
Location: Conroe, Tx
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| Posted: Sat Dec 09, 2006 3:30 am Post subject: |
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| james castle wrote: | | rgj wrote: | Case in point: Bushwacker. Seems that in the DD/Punisher mini that Bushwacker, a ex-CIA type who used to hunt mutants, IS A MUTANT. A mutant who eats bullets (literally) and then fires them through, no, not a bionic arm, but a mutant morphin' appendage.
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WHAT? WHAT? WHAT? Didn't we see people working on Bushwacker's very clearly mechanical arm at some point in Nocenti's run? This is just ridiculous. |
yeah they were putting mechaincs into that arm...he's not a mutant if I remember correctly.. |
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rgj
Hardcore
Joined: 29 Jul 2004
Posts: 1580
Location: The Rio Grande Valley of Texas
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| Posted: Sat Dec 09, 2006 12:27 pm Post subject: |
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Yep, that total disregard of Nocienti's Bushwacker totally pissed me off. This is a smaller version of the crap they are doing to Miller's Elektra (a much bigger/popular character). It's these stupid "contributions" subsequent writers add to characters (like the totally stupid Typhoid Mary/hooker thing). Fact is, Nocienti really did create some characters that have so much potential if written correctly. Bushwacker (let's forget that miniseries), Bullet (as long as he isn't treated like a crappy throw away charcater like Bendis did), Ammo (who could be a super cool gang leader) and Shotgun all have potential. They are street level guys who, if written with respect (ie. not like Bendis treated them or that DD/Punisher mini) could be real foes against DD. Heck, Nocienti even created Blackheart (if you want to stray from street level) a super creepy character that I still think would be interesting to see in DD at some point. If you think that won't work, I disagree because everyone seemed to buy the demon in the Decalogue arc.
Anyway, yeah, Bushwacker was, indeed, shown to have a government issued bionic arm. This is so much cooler than some "mutant" reasoning. The DD/Punisher mini is best left forgotten.
rgj |
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james castle
Devil in Cell-Block D
Joined: 30 Jul 2004
Posts: 1999
Location: Toronto, Ontario
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| Posted: Sat Dec 09, 2006 12:59 pm Post subject: |
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| The Overlord wrote: | | (Bushwacker using faith to justify evil acts could be an interesting contrast to DD who uses his faith as basis to commit good deeds). |
WHAT? WHAT? WHAT? DD does what with his "faith"? Someone point out the last time DD prayed or talked about how he does good because of his faith. DD is driven by many things; belief in god isn't one of them. And if it weren't for that human garbage can, Smith, the notion of DD being a religious wouldn't even be out there.
_________________
JC
So why can't you see the funny side?
Why aren't you laughing? |
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The Overlord
Paradiso
Joined: 22 Aug 2004
Posts: 1095
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| Posted: Sat Dec 09, 2006 1:17 pm Post subject: |
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| james castle wrote: | | The Overlord wrote: | | (Bushwacker using faith to justify evil acts could be an interesting contrast to DD who uses his faith as basis to commit good deeds). |
WHAT? WHAT? WHAT? DD does what with his "faith"? Someone point out the last time DD prayed or talked about how he does good because of his faith. DD is driven by many things; belief in god isn't one of them. And if it weren't for that human garbage can, Smith, the notion of DD being a religious wouldn't even be out there. |
The DD/Spider-Man crossover from 2001 also dealt with that to a degree. But perhaps I made poor choice of words, clearly DD has greater motives for his actions then his religion, but I still think DD could be secretly offend by Bushwacker using his faith to justify his evil acts, that's all saying. |
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Francesco
Underboss
Joined: 08 Jun 2006
Posts: 1307
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| Posted: Sun Dec 10, 2006 7:20 am Post subject: |
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Well, you know, that's different from saying that he uses his faith as a basis to make good deeds (like a generic TV-movie catholic).
Back to Mr hyde, I think that writing him as "evil incarnate", giving him with a more evil angle, making him sadistic, bloodthirsty etc would be, in fact, rewriting him.
A good description of Hyde has been given by Bendis (from Spider-man's point of view) in DD#75.
A poor idiot who mutated on his own, by injecting himself with some kind of filth, and blames Murdock of having ruined his life.
(I would be glad if someone could report the exact words, I got them translated)
He's not evil as a Kingpin. Is not as bloodthirsty as a Bullseye.
He's merely an ambitious guy who developed a serum, because he wanted to become "bigga". This is a very primitive form of ambition if we reflect on it.
What can we say about these premises?
The guy is dangerous. Is prone to violence. We can say he's insane, because he didn't hesitate to biologically alter himself to fulfill the ambition of becoming "bigga".
It is on these premises, IMO, that writers should work to have Mr Hyde fit in DD's urban context. |
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The Overlord
Paradiso
Joined: 22 Aug 2004
Posts: 1095
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| Posted: Sun Dec 10, 2006 1:23 pm Post subject: |
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| Francesco wrote: | Well, you know, that's different from saying that he uses his faith as a basis to make good deeds (like a generic TV-movie catholic).
Back to Mr hyde, I think that writing him as "evil incarnate", giving him with a more evil angle, making him sadistic, bloodthirsty etc would be, in fact, rewriting him.
A good description of Hyde has been given by Bendis (from Spider-man's point of view) in DD#75.
A poor idiot who mutated on his own, by injecting himself with some kind of filth, and blames Murdock of having ruined his life.
(I would be glad if someone could report the exact words, I got them translated)
He's not evil as a Kingpin. Is not as bloodthirsty as a Bullseye.
He's merely an ambitious guy who developed a serum, because he wanted to become "bigga". This is a very primitive form of ambition if we reflect on it.
What can we say about these premises?
The guy is dangerous. Is prone to violence. We can say he's insane, because he didn't hesitate to biologically alter himself to fulfill the ambition of becoming "bigga".
It is on these premises, IMO, that writers should work to have Mr Hyde fit in DD's urban context. |
Yeah I know, I made a poor choice of words with the Bushwacker post.
As for Hyde, your ignoring one thing, Hyde has always claimed that he is evil incarnate, so why wouldn't he try to fulfill these claims? Hyde has committed evil acts before in an issue of Ghost Rider he killed a man and craved his name into the man's arm, in an issue of Captain America, he tried to blow up NYC to just to kill his old partner Cobra, in the "Siege of the Avengers Mansion" he was beating Jarvis to death right in front of Cap just to torment him and that attack left Jarvis lame and half-blind for some time thereafter.
How can you say he's not as evil as Kingpin or as blood thirsty as Bullseye when he tried to blow up all of NYC, just so he can kill one guy? That's evil and insane beyond all reason, Kingpin would never do something like that, I'm not even sure Bullseye would.
So there you go there is plenty of evidence that Hyde has been commiting many evil acts through out his career and is capable of being very evil, despite what Bendis said aabout him. Bendis is not the final word on that character. Why can't Man-Bull be the generic thug character, he fits that role better.
Last edited by The Overlord on Sun Dec 10, 2006 5:47 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Solid Snake PAC
Playing to the Camera
Joined: 24 Jan 2006
Posts: 130
Location: Conroe, Tx
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| Posted: Sun Dec 10, 2006 5:27 pm Post subject: |
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| Let's not forget that Hyde did fight the Gray Hulk in the 80s...he has potential if written correctly. |
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The Overlord
Paradiso
Joined: 22 Aug 2004
Posts: 1095
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| Posted: Sun Dec 10, 2006 5:35 pm Post subject: |
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| Solid Snake PAC wrote: | | Let's not forget that Hyde did fight the Gray Hulk in the 80s...he has potential if written correctly. |
Hyde's power fluxuates from appearance to appearance, but there is a reason for that. The Hyde forumla that gives him his super powers is based on a combination of rare chemicals and the quality of the dose Zabo takes will determine how powerful he is. So in one appearance he could he powerful to give the Hulk a run for his money, but in another he could be weak enough to be defeated by DD. |
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