|
Daredevil Message Board
The Board Without Fear!
|
The Message Board is currently in read-only mode, as the software is now out of date. Several features and pages have been removed. If/When I get time I intend to re-launch the board with updated software.
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| What did you think of DAREDEVIL #10? |
| 5 |
|
14% |
[ 1 ] |
| 4 |
|
42% |
[ 3 ] |
| 3 |
|
28% |
[ 2 ] |
| 2 |
|
0% |
[ 0 ] |
| 1 |
|
14% |
[ 1 ] |
|
| Total Votes : 7 |
|
| Author |
Message |
Francesco
Underboss
Joined: 08 Jun 2006
Posts: 1307
|
 Posted: Thu Sep 01, 2016 6:11 am Post subject: |
 |
|
| I'll elaborate more on this, I promise |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Francesco
Underboss
Joined: 08 Jun 2006
Posts: 1307
|
| Posted: Mon Sep 05, 2016 6:03 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Mike Murdock wrote: | I understand it's a strongly held opinion, I'm not disagreeing with that.
Let me ask you this. Do you think it works when Daredevil has a partner (as opposed to a sidekick)? |
If we define partner as a character that occasionally teams up with DD in crimefighting ad superheroing I think that yes, it works better, because you get to see DD and how he interacts with that other character, how that other character sees him, how he sees that character etc. It's the reason why it is good to see the occasional team up with Spidey, or Cap etc.
A sidekick, let's define him as "lesser character that regularly and directly helps the main character in crimefighting/superheroing". I think it doesn't work and the current run is an example.
Why? Because, first off, I read the book because I want to read about Daredevil. Matt Murdock by day, vigilante by night, blind, devilish theme, somewhat grim and gritty, radar sense, heightened senses, somewhat tormented psyche, billy-club etc.
I'm not interested in the new guy. I don't care how cool is Blindspot. I don't care how independent and smart Waid thinks Kirsten is/was. I don't give a damn on focusing on Dakota North and her dad or her dog etc. I don't care about the super cool new interesting take on the new villain. The book has to deal mostly with Daredevil.
Introducing a sidekick has the effect of having part of the attention, usually a large part of it (the most part in the worst cases) dedicated to the sidekick, and for a prolonged time. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Mike Murdock
Golden Age
Joined: 08 Sep 2014
Posts: 1750
|
| Posted: Mon Sep 05, 2016 6:38 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I guess what I'm getting at is pairing Daredevil with Black Widow and your thoughts on that dynamic?
_________________
Matt Murdock's cooler twin brother
Not sure what to read next? Check out the Book Club for some ideas!
I'd give the Devil benefit of law, for my own safety's sake!
Thomas More - A Man for All Seasons |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Francesco
Underboss
Joined: 08 Jun 2006
Posts: 1307
|
| Posted: Tue Sep 06, 2016 3:53 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| You mean the one that historically happened or a potential new pairing? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Darkdevil
Humanity's Fathom
Joined: 04 Apr 2009
Posts: 331
Location: The Bright, Sunny South
|
| Posted: Thu Sep 08, 2016 3:15 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Francesco wrote: | | Mike Murdock wrote: | I understand it's a strongly held opinion, I'm not disagreeing with that.
Let me ask you this. Do you think it works when Daredevil has a partner (as opposed to a sidekick)? |
If we define partner as a character that occasionally teams up with DD in crimefighting ad superheroing I think that yes, it works better, because you get to see DD and how he interacts with that other character, how that other character sees him, how he sees that character etc. It's the reason why it is good to see the occasional team up with Spidey, or Cap etc.
A sidekick, let's define him as "lesser character that regularly and directly helps the main character in crimefighting/superheroing". I think it doesn't work and the current run is an example.
Why? Because, first off, I read the book because I want to read about Daredevil. Matt Murdock by day, vigilante by night, blind, devilish theme, somewhat grim and gritty, radar sense, heightened senses, somewhat tormented psyche, billy-club etc.
I'm not interested in the new guy. I don't care how cool is Blindspot. I don't care how independent and smart Waid thinks Kirsten is/was. I don't give a damn on focusing on Dakota North and her dad or her dog etc. I don't care about the super cool new interesting take on the new villain. The book has to deal mostly with Daredevil.
Introducing a sidekick has the effect of having part of the attention, usually a large part of it (the most part in the worst cases) dedicated to the sidekick, and for a prolonged time. |
So, you don't want to read of any of Matt's supporting cast at all? (I see no mention of Foggy in your post).
New and interesting takes on villains, even new villains, allow for freshness and growth. I don't want to read of DD beating the same Leapfrog in the same manner for the umpteenth time. If the villains aren't challenging anymore, then where's the true drama and conflict to come from of him being DD? (For this same reason, mobsters/gangsters become boring and stale after awhile).
One possible reason that Blindspot doesn't sit too well is that the MU isn't really set up for the existence of sidekicks. Traditionally, sidekicks were focal viewpoint characters for young readers, allowing them the chance to see someone of their typical age traipsing around with their favorite hero(es). DC took the trope further by incorporating the idea of legacy into the concept.
But ever since Lee made Peter Parker a hero outright instead of a sidekick, the trope hasn't functioned well in the MU. (That's not to say there haven't been some notable sidekicks in the history of the MU. Rick Jones comes immediately to mind).
The young heroes of the MU today, Miles Morales, Kamala Khan, the new Nova, they continue this ideal. So that Matt has seen fit to take on Sam (for whatever reason) seems unusual from the start.
But I'm not sure that I would even label Sam a true sidekick. Matt doesn't seem to be grooming him to take over his mantle. There is no legacy aspect to consider here. In fact, based on how Soule has shown their relationship, I'm more willing to say that Blindspot is DD's partner in certain ways more so than a true sidekick. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Mike Murdock
Golden Age
Joined: 08 Sep 2014
Posts: 1750
|
| Posted: Thu Sep 08, 2016 6:00 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Francesco wrote: | | You mean the one that historically happened or a potential new pairing? |
Either/Both and if there's a different answer for one vs. the other, why.
_________________
Matt Murdock's cooler twin brother
Not sure what to read next? Check out the Book Club for some ideas!
I'd give the Devil benefit of law, for my own safety's sake!
Thomas More - A Man for All Seasons |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Dimetre
Underboss
Joined: 16 Feb 2006
Posts: 1366
Location: Toronto
|
| Posted: Thu Sep 08, 2016 7:42 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Darkdevil wrote: | One possible reason that Blindspot doesn't sit too well is that the MU isn't really set up for the existence of sidekicks. Traditionally, sidekicks were focal viewpoint characters for young readers, allowing them the chance to see someone of their typical age traipsing around with their favorite hero(es). DC took the trope further by incorporating the idea of legacy into the concept.
But ever since Lee made Peter Parker a hero outright instead of a sidekick, the trope hasn't functioned well in the MU. (That's not to say there haven't been some notable sidekicks in the history of the MU. Rick Jones comes immediately to mind).
The young heroes of the MU today, Miles Morales, Kamala Khan, the new Nova, they continue this ideal. So that Matt has seen fit to take on Sam (for whatever reason) seems unusual from the start.
But I'm not sure that I would even label Sam a true sidekick. Matt doesn't seem to be grooming him to take over his mantle. There is no legacy aspect to consider here. In fact, based on how Soule has shown their relationship, I'm more willing to say that Blindspot is DD's partner in certain ways more so than a true sidekick. |
Those are all some interesting points, but I find the notion of Daredevil having a sidekick (if we're indeed going to call Blindspot that), doesn't make business sense in 2016. When Robin was created, it was to attract young readers to Detective Comics. Same thing with Speedy and Aqualad and Batgirl. But comics don't sell in large numbers these days, so what increase in numbers are actually going to matter enough on the balance sheet to justify shaking up the Daredevil book like this? I think that what is actually happening is that the Daredevil book is serving as a venue in which to debut Blindspot, who they don't think they could have launched in a brand new title, which I sincerely think could do well. I think they should make that move sooner than later. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Francesco
Underboss
Joined: 08 Jun 2006
Posts: 1307
|
| Posted: Sat Sep 10, 2016 4:39 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Mike Murdock wrote: | | Francesco wrote: | | You mean the one that historically happened or a potential new pairing? |
Either/Both and if there's a different answer for one vs. the other, why. |
In Conway's "Daredevil and the Black Widow" I read much of the things I didn't like about sidekicks I wrote of before, regarding the Black Widow. Still, for the most part of it the book was retitled and so a reader should approach it expecting the two characters to share the spotlight.
The same should be expected if by chance it happened again, and also I feel it would be more tolerable because the character is already established and there would be no need to give her extra spotlight to show origins, powers, motivations, "coolness factor" etc.
When a new character is introduced in a book as a sidekick or a legacy character etc, you have much of the spotlight stolen because you have to show said "origins, powers, motivations, "coolness factor" etc.". |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Mike Murdock
Golden Age
Joined: 08 Sep 2014
Posts: 1750
|
| Posted: Sat Sep 10, 2016 8:13 am Post subject: |
|
|
The book was retitled for part of it, but, even leaving aside Conway, there are issues of Nocenti's run that paired them as partners. Ground Zero (#252) is good example.
_________________
Matt Murdock's cooler twin brother
Not sure what to read next? Check out the Book Club for some ideas!
I'd give the Devil benefit of law, for my own safety's sake!
Thomas More - A Man for All Seasons |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Darkdevil
Humanity's Fathom
Joined: 04 Apr 2009
Posts: 331
Location: The Bright, Sunny South
|
| Posted: Sat Sep 10, 2016 8:02 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Dimetre wrote: | | Darkdevil wrote: | One possible reason that Blindspot doesn't sit too well is that the MU isn't really set up for the existence of sidekicks. Traditionally, sidekicks were focal viewpoint characters for young readers, allowing them the chance to see someone of their typical age traipsing around with their favorite hero(es). DC took the trope further by incorporating the idea of legacy into the concept.
But ever since Lee made Peter Parker a hero outright instead of a sidekick, the trope hasn't functioned well in the MU. (That's not to say there haven't been some notable sidekicks in the history of the MU. Rick Jones comes immediately to mind).
The young heroes of the MU today, Miles Morales, Kamala Khan, the new Nova, they continue this ideal. So that Matt has seen fit to take on Sam (for whatever reason) seems unusual from the start.
But I'm not sure that I would even label Sam a true sidekick. Matt doesn't seem to be grooming him to take over his mantle. There is no legacy aspect to consider here. In fact, based on how Soule has shown their relationship, I'm more willing to say that Blindspot is DD's partner in certain ways more so than a true sidekick. |
Those are all some interesting points, but I find the notion of Daredevil having a sidekick (if we're indeed going to call Blindspot that), doesn't make business sense in 2016. When Robin was created, it was to attract young readers to Detective Comics. Same thing with Speedy and Aqualad and Batgirl. But comics don't sell in large numbers these days, so what increase in numbers are actually going to matter enough on the balance sheet to justify shaking up the Daredevil book like this? I think that what is actually happening is that the Daredevil book is serving as a venue in which to debut Blindspot, who they don't think they could have launched in a brand new title, which I sincerely think could do well. I think they should make that move sooner than later. |
I could see some validity to your point if Blindspot was seen in guest appearances in other titles, to broaden and gauge the appeal of the character in hopes of better setting up and selling his own book.
To my knowledge though, he's only specific to DD which I do find strange (unless someone knows different so please let me know if so) For you'd think that he would had bumped into Miles Morales or Ms. Marvel by now. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
Powered by phpBB © phpBB Group
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
