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Dimetre
Underboss
Joined: 16 Feb 2006
Posts: 1366
Location: Toronto
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 Posted: Thu Nov 02, 2006 12:53 am Post subject: |
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| james castle wrote: | | Joey Q was, after all, one half of the crap fest Guardian Devil and was at least directly guilty of drawing the most ludicris "look, Matt is angry now" scenes of all time. Joey Q also has a way of trying to latch onto the success of DD (which is due ENTIRELY to Bendis and not the movie or Smith's ridiculous run) without actually really getting it. |
In what way is Maleev's repetetive "Look, Matt is angry now," gritted teeth in the dark drawing any less ludicrous than Quesada's? In issues 49 and 50 I think Maleev has Matt's teeth gritted more often than they were in the whole Guardian Devil arc.
Plus, enough already with the rose-coloured look back at Bendis' run. Daredevil's success is in no way, shape or form due entirely to Bendis. Face the facts. The proof is right here on this website. http://www.manwithoutfear.com/ddSALES.shtml
Take a look. From Volume 1 #380 to Volume 2 #1, Daredevil's sales increased by 66.5%. Daredevil Volume 2 #7 was actually the first issue of Daredevil I picked up in years. (I loved Quesada's art more than Smith's writing, although he did show a considerable knowledge of Daredevil's past.) Bendis first appeared on the scene with #16. Sales of that issue are considerably lower than Smith's first issue as well as Mack's first issue. For crying out loud, the sales figures for #26 (which ushered in the age of Bendis as the full-time writer) were even lower than Bob Gale's first issue! Sales for the book steadily declined while Bendis was writing it, until the hype for the movie kicked in. After the attention from the movie cooled off sales declined. In fact, by the time of the Murdock Papers, sales were at their lowest ever since Volume 2 kicked off. Sales have been up since Brubaker has been on the book.
Daredevil a success ENTIRELY because of Bendis? More like IN SPITE of Bendis, and not just if you ask me. |
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EightiesCartoon
Playing to the Camera
Joined: 18 Oct 2004
Posts: 177
Location: Bathurst
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| Posted: Thu Nov 02, 2006 1:21 am Post subject: |
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| Forrest wrote: | | EightiesCartoon wrote: | I was referring to DD: Target. 'Father' and 'Target' seem to have so much in common:
[. . .]
- both use Matt as a secondary character (Target=all about Bullseye, Father=all about a serial killer)
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I really don't see your argument on this one... Just out of curiosity, do you feel the same way about the following Bendis arcs: Wake Up, Underboss, Golden Age, and Decalogue? Likewise, did you read DD: Redemption?
In all these recent arcs, DD/Matt received equal to less exposure. |
Hey Forrest
Honestly I'm just p!ssed about late books. If they're not ready, don't advertise their imminent arrival. I'm just speaking more from disappointment than anything else, but from memory (it has been such a long time between issues) DD: Father seemed very hit and miss regarding Matt.
My DD's have been packed away. I'm going to pull them out and re-read the entire Bendis run again, compare them to DD: Father and form an opinion.
That way I can come back with a more formulated opinion so once again, didn't mean to mouth off all over the place but that is my general feeling in regards to DD: Father as a story and a late book
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"You must be the change you wish to see in the world." - Ghandi |
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Forrest
Lowlife
Joined: 07 Dec 2004
Posts: 1439
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| Posted: Thu Nov 02, 2006 9:35 am Post subject: |
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| EightiesCartoon wrote: | | Forrest wrote: | | EightiesCartoon wrote: | I was referring to DD: Target. 'Father' and 'Target' seem to have so much in common:
[. . .]
- both use Matt as a secondary character (Target=all about Bullseye, Father=all about a serial killer)
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I really don't see your argument on this one... Just out of curiosity, do you feel the same way about the following Bendis arcs: Wake Up, Underboss, Golden Age, and Decalogue? Likewise, did you read DD: Redemption?
In all these recent arcs, DD/Matt received equal to less exposure. |
Hey Forrest
Honestly I'm just p!ssed about late books. |
Isn't it funny how being annoyed with one aspect of the book can make you paint it negative in so many other ways without sufficient justification? I'm not criticizing you because I did the same thing with Bendis's Decalogue arc. Looking back, that arc isn't half bad, but when I was getting about 1% of the usual Matt/DD in every issue and those issues are only coming out monthly. After 5 months, I started to think the whole thing was the worst vol 2 arc ever. ...maybe I was still bitter about Mack's Echo (the dream quest and all that bull, sans Matt/DD for FAR TOO LONG ).
Ultimately, years down the road, the release dates will only be a footnote compared with the actual story, which I am quite convinced will finish very nicely in DD:Father.
Another thing, Joe Q is getting a very unjustified bad rap for being associated with Smith's run. That's silly. That would be like me hating Cary Nord's art for being a part of DeMatteis's terrible, terrible, terrible DD writing. Nord went on to work with Kesel, in DD work that simply could not be more different from DeMatteis's, not to mention Nord's current insanely amazing art in Conan.
In Guardian Devil, Smith and Quesada did two different things. Just as I can't praise Smith for Joe Q's art, I can't bash Joe Q for Smith's plot devices.
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james castle
Devil in Cell-Block D
Joined: 30 Jul 2004
Posts: 1999
Location: Toronto, Ontario
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| Posted: Thu Nov 02, 2006 5:12 pm Post subject: |
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| Dimetre wrote: |
In what way is Maleev's repetetive "Look, Matt is angry now," gritted teeth in the dark drawing any less ludicrous than Quesada's? In issues 49 and 50 I think Maleev has Matt's teeth gritted more often than they were in the whole Guardian Devil arc. |
Because Quesada has Matt making fists, doubled over, with spit
coming out of his mouth, screaming at whatever other character is in the scene. Meanwhile in the panel before he's just kinda standing around. It's just crap visual story telling. At least Maleev is vaguely subtle about it. Quesada can't do anything subtle.
| Quote: |
Plus, enough already with the rose-coloured look back at Bendis' run. Daredevil's success is in no way, shape or form due entirely to Bendis. Face the facts. The proof is right here on this website. http://www.manwithoutfear.com/ddSALES.shtml
Take a look. From Volume 1 #380 to Volume 2 #1, Daredevil's sales increased by 66.5%. Daredevil Volume 2 #7 was actually the first issue of Daredevil I picked up in years. (I loved Quesada's art more than Smith's writing, although he did show a considerable knowledge of Daredevil's past.) Bendis first appeared on the scene with #16. Sales of that issue are considerably lower than Smith's first issue as well as Mack's first issue. For crying out loud, the sales figures for #26 (which ushered in the age of Bendis as the full-time writer) were even lower than Bob Gale's first issue! Sales for the book steadily declined while Bendis was writing it, until the hype for the movie kicked in. After the attention from the movie cooled off sales declined. In fact, by the time of the Murdock Papers, sales were at their lowest ever since Volume 2 kicked off. Sales have been up since Brubaker has been on the book.
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No doubt Smith and the movie gave DD a sales boost as all the mush heads come in and buy a couple issues because they are too stupid not too. Bendis put DD on the critical map again.
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Daredevil a success ENTIRELY because of Bendis? More like IN SPITE of Bendis, and not just if you ask me. |
Who else shall we ask? Nearly every critic who thought Bendis' run was nothing short of legendary. It's not even worth arguing. Bendis' run was among the best DD runs of all time. It's not even debateable.
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JC
So why can't you see the funny side?
Why aren't you laughing? |
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Francesco
Underboss
Joined: 08 Jun 2006
Posts: 1307
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| Posted: Sat Nov 04, 2006 4:40 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | In what way is Maleev's repetetive "Look, Matt is angry now," gritted teeth in the dark drawing any less ludicrous than Quesada's? In issues 49 and 50 I think Maleev has Matt's teeth gritted more often than they were in the whole Guardian Devil arc. |
Maleev's gritted teeth in the dark may be repetitive (???), but that is pure poetry. Epic poetry. Quesada's attempts at drawing DD angry do not even come close to that. |
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Dimetre
Underboss
Joined: 16 Feb 2006
Posts: 1366
Location: Toronto
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| Posted: Sun Nov 05, 2006 11:31 pm Post subject: |
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| james castle wrote: | | Who else shall we ask? Nearly every critic who thought Bendis' run was nothing short of legendary. It's not even worth arguing. Bendis' run was among the best DD runs of all time. It's not even debateable. |
Actually, I'm sure I could debate it just fine. You want me to? |
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james castle
Devil in Cell-Block D
Joined: 30 Jul 2004
Posts: 1999
Location: Toronto, Ontario
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| Posted: Mon Nov 06, 2006 11:43 am Post subject: |
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| Dimetre wrote: | | james castle wrote: | | Who else shall we ask? Nearly every critic who thought Bendis' run was nothing short of legendary. It's not even worth arguing. Bendis' run was among the best DD runs of all time. It's not even debateable. |
Actually, I'm sure I could debate it just fine. You want me to? |
Actually, I do. Explain to me how you fail to see Bendis' run as a landmark in the series. Was it the original tone? The original stories? The experimental arcs? I'm sorry it didn't have the glaring plot holes and self congradulatory dialogue of Guardian Devil but, hey, you can't have everything.
Bendis' run is widely regarded as a major achievement. You don't like it? Fine. That's cool. But to pretend that it isn't something worth acknowledging as something celebrated is just childish.
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JC
So why can't you see the funny side?
Why aren't you laughing? |
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