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obiwan570
Flying Blind
Joined: 27 Aug 2004
Posts: 32
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 Posted: Mon Nov 13, 2006 10:21 am Post subject: Isnt't it time for an Elektra /DD mini series |
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listen guys don't you think its about time for an elektra mini series we have like 3 dds, one black widow, one white tiger and apprently one iron fist coming up (no echo thank the lord)
But i have been toying around with an elektra mini with the old miller or bendis style drawn by that artist david aja (neat artwork man) .
The twist would be it being told from point of view of that kid mickey from the 'man without fear' series now a fbi/shield agent trainee and the big one would be it involves ultimately protecting Sister Maggie from some bad kick ass clan becos (here it comes) she and elektra's mum use to be members of some long dead (sorry to say) kickass clan . it would guest star everyone foggy. ben urich , paladin, bushwacker , the chaste , baby karen , crossbones etc but definetly no dd or matt murdock and may be moon knight as the complimentary guest super hero
So what do you think ????? |
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Forrest
Lowlife
Joined: 07 Dec 2004
Posts: 1439
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| Posted: Mon Nov 13, 2006 2:17 pm Post subject: |
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I am so sick of Elektra, I can't stand it.
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james castle
Devil in Cell-Block D
Joined: 30 Jul 2004
Posts: 1999
Location: Toronto, Ontario
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| Posted: Mon Nov 13, 2006 4:00 pm Post subject: |
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Good news! In an upcoming New Avengers arc RONIN FIGHTS ELEKTRA!
Sigh.
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rgj
Hardcore
Joined: 29 Jul 2004
Posts: 1580
Location: The Rio Grande Valley of Texas
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| Posted: Mon Nov 13, 2006 4:16 pm Post subject: |
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Like Frank Miller said (and, I agree), Elektra is DEAD.
rgj |
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james castle
Devil in Cell-Block D
Joined: 30 Jul 2004
Posts: 1999
Location: Toronto, Ontario
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| Posted: Mon Nov 13, 2006 5:24 pm Post subject: |
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Elektra is not dead.
She is, however, a really lame character now. So whatevers.
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Forrest
Lowlife
Joined: 07 Dec 2004
Posts: 1439
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| Posted: Mon Nov 13, 2006 8:33 pm Post subject: |
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I don't hate all post-Miller Elektra. I hate all post-Miller Elektra not written by Chichester. 
In the area of Elektra, Miller has no right to whine like an annoying little prima donna. HE brought her back in DD ongoing and then went on to write two more Elektra stories. Also, Elektra rocked in Fall from Grace! Miller complaining about Chichester bringing her back reminds me of Smith complaining about Bendis writting the first Bullseye-DD encounter, post issue #5. It was written well and no one working at Marvel owns a complete creative control of a character. (Of course, Jenkins should own Sentry. )
...Then, it all went south with Milligan's Elektra. (A HUGE letdown because I usually like Milligan.) Now, she's just a token female character with too little clothing and WAY too much marketing. I didn't even like her appearances in Bendis's DD...
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rgj
Hardcore
Joined: 29 Jul 2004
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Location: The Rio Grande Valley of Texas
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| Posted: Mon Nov 13, 2006 8:56 pm Post subject: |
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Miller brought back Elektra because he was told to do so by Marvel. They also said no one would write her but him.
As for Fall From Grace. Look, I love Chichester, but are you KIDDING me!? Elektra is "reinfected" with evil. That is total crap. Saying that Elektra did what she did because she was infected with evil is as absurd as saying that Matt does what he does because he is "infected" by "good." Taking away Elektra's freedom of choice is stupid and undercuts what Miller was doing with the Elektra Saga. Don't you get the whole point? Matt and Elektra lived the same life and were confronted with the same horrible circumstance. Elektra got angry and became an assassin. Matt chose justice. Elektra is what Matt could have become, a WHAT IF. . . issue played out. That's what makes these star crossed ex-lover's story interesting. Look, Elektra coming down the mountain for a noble cause, especially to help Matt, makes sense in FFG. The "reinfecting" is Marvel gutting Miller's story (a born again tale for Elektra was at the heart of the Elektra Saga) just so they could have a scantily clad chick go Punisher. There has been no real quality story written post-Miller. Nothing has been added to this (now) crappy character. Hacks have taken away the mystery of this character and diminished Miller's original story. Marvel doesn't even know what to do with her. Hero, anti-hero, killer, dancer. Elektra may not be dead. But, the character Marvel is writing about is NOT Elektra.
rgj
p.s. And, yeah, all her apperances under Bendis sucked. He doesn't know the character. |
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james castle
Devil in Cell-Block D
Joined: 30 Jul 2004
Posts: 1999
Location: Toronto, Ontario
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| Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2006 8:16 pm Post subject: |
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| rgj wrote: | | Miller brought back Elektra because he was told to do so by Marvel. They also said no one would write her but him. |
Who cares? No one. That's who. The very idea of Marvel ceding creative control of a character to a writer is nothing short of ridiculous. I don't care if every Marvel editor got a huge tat that said "only Frank Miller can write Elektra stories" across their backs. It still wouldn't matter.
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As for Fall From Grace. Look, I love Chichester, but are you KIDDING me!? Elektra is "reinfected" with evil. That is total crap. Saying that Elektra did what she did because she was infected with evil is as absurd as saying that Matt does what he does because he is "infected" by "good." Taking away Elektra's freedom of choice is stupid and undercuts what Miller was doing with the Elektra Saga. Don't you get the whole point? Matt and Elektra lived the same life and were confronted with the same horrible circumstance. Elektra got angry and became an assassin. Matt chose justice. Elektra is what Matt could have become, a WHAT IF. . . issue played out. That's what makes these star crossed ex-lover's story interesting.
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What? Miller was the first person to introduce this whole infected/uninfected nonsense. Matt uninfected Elektra in the church. Sure, those exact words were never used but it was clear that Matt somehow removed the evil from her. She didn't choose to be good. Matt made her good. It the exact same thing as her being reinfected...something making her bad.
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Look, Elektra coming down the mountain for a noble cause, especially to help Matt, makes sense in FFG.
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And was kick ass. Comon, surely you liked the prereinfected Elektra in FFG. She was written exactly as she should have been at that point.
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The "reinfecting" is Marvel gutting Miller's story (a born again tale for Elektra was at the heart of the Elektra Saga) just so they could have a scantily clad chick go Punisher. There has been no real quality story written post-Miller. Nothing has been added to this (now) crappy character. Hacks have taken away the mystery of this character and diminished Miller's original story. Marvel doesn't even know what to do with her. Hero, anti-hero, killer, dancer. Elektra may not be dead. But, the character Marvel is writing about is NOT Elektra.
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This is all true.
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p.s. And, yeah, all her apperances under Bendis sucked. He doesn't know the character. |
Her silently standing there on the roof top kicked ass. Plus, I've said it before and I'll say it again: the Elektra Saga wasn't even that good to begin with (oh, that's right. I went there). Certainly not good enough that anyone should be ripping their eyes out because it's been "ruined". Here's a thought: wasn't Elektra always pretty scantly dressed?
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Forrest
Lowlife
Joined: 07 Dec 2004
Posts: 1439
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| Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2006 9:20 pm Post subject: |
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| james castle wrote: | | rgj wrote: | Look, Elektra coming down the mountain for a noble cause, especially to help Matt, makes sense in FFG.
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And was kick ass. Comon, surely you liked the prereinfected Elektra in FFG. She was written exactly as she should have been at that point. |
| rgj wrote: | There has been no real quality story written post-Miller. Nothing has been added to this (now) crappy character. Hacks have taken away the mystery of this character and diminished Miller's original story. Marvel doesn't even know what to do with her. Hero, anti-hero, killer, dancer. Elektra may not be dead. But, the character Marvel is writing about is NOT Elektra.
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If you switch "post-Miller" with "post-Chichester," then I agree with you, except with the disclaimer that I have not read Rucka's Elektra. (I hold Rucka in very high regard.)
I do think that FFG added a lot to Elektra's character. I cared about her much more in FFG than I ever did in the "Elektra Saga." In fact, I thought she was a little one dimensional in the "Elektra Saga." Don't get me wrong, I loved Miller's writing at the time, but almost every other character he wrote in DD had more of an impact on me than Elektra, including Becky, Bullseye, the geeks in the theater, etc.
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rgj
Hardcore
Joined: 29 Jul 2004
Posts: 1580
Location: The Rio Grande Valley of Texas
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| Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2006 10:06 pm Post subject: |
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| jc wrote: | | Who cares? No one. That's who. The very idea of Marvel ceding creative control of a character to a writer is nothing short of ridiculous. I don't care if every Marvel editor got a huge tat that said "only Frank Miller can write Elektra stories" across their backs. It still wouldn't matter. |
Well, obviously, Frank Miller cares. And, I only said what I said because Forrest said something about that FRANK brought her back. I just told him why he did it.
| jc wrote: | | What? Miller was the first person to introduce this whole infected/uninfected nonsense. Matt uninfected Elektra in the church. Sure, those exact words were never used but it was clear that Matt somehow removed the evil from her. She didn't choose to be good. Matt made her good. It the exact same thing as her being reinfected...something making her bad. |
Yeah, Miller did say that Matt "purged" her. But, that does not mean that she was freakin' "possessed." Miller makes it clear that Elektra's anger made it easy for the Hand to manipulate her, and she was a willing participant, that is why she became "evil", but it was always her choice. Just as it was her choice to do non evil things like allowing Foggy to live. And, she held back many times when fighting Matt. You can interpret what Miller meant by "purging" any way you want (her just catching a breath of life after being dead, and thus having a second chance could be it), but I don't think it was a "demon" or "evil fog" that could be kept in a bottle buried in the subway tunnel (FFG) and it being pierced and in turn piercing her skin, her skin for God's sake, is what Frank meant. If you buy it fine, but crap, if you really don't mind Elektra coming back in FFG, really, WHY does she have to be rebooted back to "evil." It would have been better had she just assumed Stone's role, instead of her becoming Mrs. Punisher *snore*, who dances.
| jc wrote: | | Her silently standing there on the roof top kicked ass. Plus, I've said it before and I'll say it again: the Elektra Saga wasn't even that good to begin with (oh, that's right. I went there). Certainly not good enough that anyone should be ripping their eyes out because it's been "ruined". Here's a thought: wasn't Elektra always pretty scantly dressed? |
Well, if you want to see her standing there on a rooftop, kicking ass, just have a pin up. Not a crap story. Certainly, you are free to think of the Elektra Saga anyway you want, while I think the story is a very good tale, I never said it was the end all of storytelling, but for Christ's sake the Elektra Saga, with the character of Elektra in it, is better than any story that includes her post-Miller. Then again, people out there might like a dancing Elektra.
rgj |
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Forrest
Lowlife
Joined: 07 Dec 2004
Posts: 1439
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| Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2006 11:25 pm Post subject: |
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| rgj wrote: | | jc wrote: | | Who cares? No one. That's who. The very idea of Marvel ceding creative control of a character to a writer is nothing short of ridiculous. I don't care if every Marvel editor got a huge tat that said "only Frank Miller can write Elektra stories" across their backs. It still wouldn't matter. |
Well, obviously, Frank Miller cares. And, I only said what I said because Forrest said something about that FRANK brought her back. I just told him why he did it. |
That is a very good point, jc. I've learned from reading interviews with writers that this happens far more often than people think. (Heck, Marv Wolfman never wanted to "kill" Barry Allen in the Crisis of Infinite Earth.)
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james castle
Devil in Cell-Block D
Joined: 30 Jul 2004
Posts: 1999
Location: Toronto, Ontario
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| Posted: Wed Nov 15, 2006 2:20 pm Post subject: |
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| rgj wrote: |
Yeah, Miller did say that Matt "purged" her. But, that does not mean that she was freakin' "possessed." Miller makes it clear that Elektra's anger made it easy for the Hand to manipulate her, and she was a willing participant, that is why she became "evil", but it was always her choice. Just as it was her choice to do non evil things like allowing Foggy to live. And, she held back many times when fighting Matt. You can interpret what Miller meant by "purging" any way you want (her just catching a breath of life after being dead, and thus having a second chance could be it),
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Look, any way you interpret it, it always comes down to Elektra becoming good through no effort of her own. MATT did something and ELEKTRA became good. No free will there. That's what you were complaining about concerning FFG. It's the same thing.
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but I don't think it was a "demon" or "evil fog" that could be kept in a bottle buried in the subway tunnel (FFG) and it being pierced and in turn piercing her skin, her skin for God's sake, is what Frank meant.
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Errrr, that's not what happened. "About Face" (the happy self changing virus) was in the bottle buried in the subway tunnel. Elektra's reinfection had nothing to do with the bottle. She was "reinfected" when the Elektra clone lady (who had Elektra's spirit or whatever woven into her own) was stabbed with a sai that also went into Elektra's arm. Errr, that's only slightly better. Still, it's really not all that far off from the laying on hands, blah, blah, blah crap that Miller slipped in here and there.
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If you buy it fine, but crap, if you really don't mind Elektra coming back in FFG, really, WHY does she have to be rebooted back to "evil." It would have been better had she just assumed Stone's role, instead of her becoming Mrs. Punisher *snore*, who dances.
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I couldn't possibly agree more.
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| jc wrote: | | Her silently standing there on the roof top kicked ass. Plus, I've said it before and I'll say it again: the Elektra Saga wasn't even that good to begin with (oh, that's right. I went there). Certainly not good enough that anyone should be ripping their eyes out because it's been "ruined". Here's a thought: wasn't Elektra always pretty scantly dressed? |
Well, if you want to see her standing there on a rooftop, kicking ass, just have a pin up. Not a crap story. Certainly, you are free to think of the Elektra Saga anyway you want, while I think the story is a very good tale, I never said it was the end all of storytelling, but for Christ's sake the Elektra Saga, with the character of Elektra in it, is better than any story that includes her post-Miller. Then again, people out there might like a dancing Elektra.
rgj |
Well at least she wasn't dancing on the roof top.
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rgj
Hardcore
Joined: 29 Jul 2004
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Location: The Rio Grande Valley of Texas
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| Posted: Wed Nov 15, 2006 4:58 pm Post subject: |
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| jc wrote: | | MATT did something and ELEKTRA became good. No free will there. |
Well, I don't think the purging comment had anything to do with what direction Elektra eventually took. Elektra could have easily still done evil things after she was resurrected. She chose to climb the mountain, a mountain where she sought Stick and a noble cause long ago. She finished the climb that she had failed the first time. In my eyes, Elektra CHOSE to not contiune her ways once she had a second chance. I don't see it as she became "good" cause Matt helped bring her back. But, I see where you are coming from if you chose to believe that she became "good" because Matt "did something." I just don't interpret it that way.
And, yeah, it's been a while since I read FFG. And, you are right about the "reinfecting." Still think it's crap that it happened that way too. Again, since I don't think she became "good" because of Matt's "laying hands", I obviouly still think it's crazy that she would be "reinfected." But, whatever. I will agree with you with one point you made. The Elektra before reinfection was written well. The reinfecting idea sucked. And, everyting that came after, the dancing, the having a baby with Wolverine  and yeah, even Rucka's stuff sucked eggs. Again, Marvel isn't writing Elektra. Just some crappy knock off.
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rgj
Hardcore
Joined: 29 Jul 2004
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Location: The Rio Grande Valley of Texas
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| Posted: Wed Nov 15, 2006 4:59 pm Post subject: |
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double post
rgj |
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Forrest
Lowlife
Joined: 07 Dec 2004
Posts: 1439
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| Posted: Wed Nov 15, 2006 5:29 pm Post subject: |
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| james castle wrote: | | rgj wrote: |
If you buy it fine, but crap, if you really don't mind Elektra coming back in FFG, really, WHY does she have to be rebooted back to "evil." It would have been better had she just assumed Stone's role, instead of her becoming Mrs. Punisher *snore*, who dances.
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I couldn't possibly agree more.
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Ditto.
| rgj wrote: | | [Elektra] having a baby with Wolverine [. . .] |
?!?!?!?!?!
Are you serious? THAT is so lame!
When did that happen?
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